Did it work before you added the fluid? If so, then I would remove more fluid and see if that helps. The level should not be that high on a cold transmission.

 

Doesn't the fluid get all over the transmission at much higher points once the car is warmed up and run through all the gears?

So when the car sits for a while and is cold, all the fluid drains down into the pan, and even the tons of fluid in the torque converter could be lost? So I would think that a cold engine would actually read potentially way over the full mark. I don't know, but...


My understanding of the fluid level is that it should be checked after the car is warmed up and has been run through all the gears.

When I bought my 1973 280se 4.5 (with same engine and trans as 1973 450sl), it would not move into any gear. After adding SEVERAL quarts of fluid it runs fine. After driving it a few miles, it again needed several quarts. I start it and drive it every few days or weeks and it moves through all gears fine.

I wonder if sitting for a while simply leads to the loss of lots of fluid from the torque converter, and that's not something you simply top up in a few minutes.

I don't know. I'm just speaking from my experience.

Of corse you want to make sure you are really in gear. Simply putting the car in reverse in the dark should make it easy to tell if the reverse lights are on. You could also put the shifter all the way into low to make sure you are in drive.

 

The transmission worked fine the previous evening. Topped up ATF with engine running, adding fluid, checking the dipstick bit by bit.

If the high ATF level caused something to break, I am curious as to what that could be:
- Torque converter
- Primary pump
- Some relief valve I don't know about?
- Internal gasket?

 

Vacuum has some affect....but I think it should still go into some gear regardless of vacuum. It might not shift.....

Point is...maybe check your vacuum line. But it does sound like something more serious.

 

What is the transmission fluid you are using? I keep seeing you say ATF, which I hope you are using as a general term.

 

If it doesn't work in any forward gear but works in reverse it is most likely the B2 piston. The B2 piston can be serviced in the car on allot of models but I'm not sure if that's true on the 107. In any case it sounds like you also have a front seal problem so best to remove the transmission, inspect the B2 piston and if found blown replace and replace font seal.

If you can do this yourself you will save a lot of money otherwise a transmission place will most likely want to rebuild the whole transmission.

Do a search on Mercedes 722.3 B2 piston replace.

Just read that this transmission doesn't work in forward or reverse therfore it is not the B2 piston. Check to make sure gear shift linkage is connected. If it is remove pan and check to make sure valve body linkage is connected and moving with the gear shift. Take a look for debris in pan

 

This B2 piston, could it be my issue? I have a 01 E320 w/ 722.618. Currently reverse & drive act like neutral BUT neutral acts like reverse (reverse lights comes on in reverse still). Please help car has been down since mid-July. I have done trans fluid & filter change. Trans fluid almost resembled oil but had no burnt small. I even replaced the shifter inside the car & the linkage is connected correctly.

 

Found this write up there are many more.

 

Thanks,
I have always used Castrol Dextron II or higher for this car which I have owned since new. This is a 85 model and this ATF is listed in the car manual.

The car does not engage in any gear, forward or reverse, there is no movement what so ever with the engine running at idle or even at 2000 rpm.

I am currently at the cottage away from the car, so have not checked the linkage yet, Fonzis suggestion check reverse lights in the dark was a good one.

Did not notice any debris when I drained the pan, will do that later. Needed to take the engine out anyway to seal the transmission pump housing bolts, so that is probably the next step. Did it 6 moths ago, so have a procedure and the tools.


Have searched on the net, but not found a good diagnosis.

 

Wouldn't He still have reverse if it were the B2 piston?






Fish

 

Is it stuck in PARK? Can it be pushed forward or in reverse?
Hope its something simple like a linkage problem for you.

 

Seems suspicious that it worked until he added fluid. I would suggest that he drain both the pan and the converter and refill with the proper amount of fluid then see if it works.

 

Thanks for good suggestions. Will drain and refill pan and TQ after checking the linkage. If the park locks the rear wheels in Park position only it would confirm that the lever is connected. The lever moves normally.

I am wondering if the fact that no gears work, point to the torque converter or the primary pump, but don't see how the pump could fail completly without hearing grinding noises. Same with torque converter, so wonder if something is clogged up preventing low pressure oil flow to either of these?

Could a collapsed filter in the pan cause this?

(Still looking for a simple solution before spending 2-4 days taking the engine in and out + waiting for parts + taking the transmission apart)

 

Thanks for good suggestions. Will drain and refill pan and TQ after checking the linkage. If the park locks the rear wheels in Park position only it would confirm that the lever is connected. The lever moves normally.

Yes as long as it unlocks the rear wheels as well. But it does not mean that the linkage to the manual valve in the valve body did not fall off.

I am wondering if the fact that no gears work, point to the torque converter or the primary pump, but don't see how the pump could fail completly without hearing grinding noises. Same with torque converter, so wonder if something is clogged up preventing low pressure oil flow to either of these?

Yes it could but the sudden overnight failure with no noise does not point to that

Could a collapsed filter in the pan cause this?

Absolutely check it out when you check the linkage to the manual valve.

(Still looking for a simple solution before spending 2-4 days taking the engine in and out + waiting for parts + taking the transmission apart)

Why would you take the engine out?

 

Yes Roncallo,
saw that.

If I end up overhauling the transmission anyhow, I will upgrade the B2 piston as preventitive maintenance. Did the K1 spring kit, which removed occational uphill acceleration flares completely.

Unless the gear lever is not connected, I assume a single failure common to all gears, and that points me to the pump or torque converter, either mechanical or hydraulic failure. Without any metal debris in the pan and no mechanical noises I am suspecting a hydraulic problem.

I have a German MB manual describing the 722.3 operation in detail, quite thick, full of technical terms, but will dive into it if requried even though my German is far from fluent.

Should probably get tools to measure oil pressure at the various places - any recommendations?

 

Yes Roncallo,
saw that.

If I end up overhauling the transmission anyhow, I will upgrade the B2 piston as preventitive maintenance. Did the K1 spring kit, which removed occational uphill acceleration flares completely.

Good Idea.

Unless the gear lever is not connected, I assume a single failure common to all gears, and that points me to the pump or torque converter, either mechanical or hydraulic failure. Without any metal debris in the pan and no mechanical noises I am suspecting a hydraulic problem.

There is one point inside the transmission where the outside of the leaver can move and the transmission can go into and out of park but the hydraulic valve or manual valve on the valve body may not be connected. The internal linkage may have fallen off. Other things that would cause a complete loss of hydraulic pressure would be an internal seal leak There are many that can do this both static and dynamic seals.

Should probably get tools to measure oil pressure at the various places - any recommendations?

Not sure if the 722.3 has pressure taps, I believe it does but I can confirm. This looks like a good trans pressure tester. Not sure if its available in your country.

Great deal on OTC Tools 5610 at ToolTopia.com

 

Took the engine out to fix spinning starter caused by worn ring gear.

 

Thanks,
tried ordering, but asked to change country in the shipping adress field. A bit unconvinient, will find another source.

Good tip about the valvebody linkage. Did change the external o-ring on the shiftshaft which implied removing the shaft 40,000 km ago, could have messed up.

 

Brief update:
1. Backing light goes on in Reverse
2. Car moves freely in Neutral
3. Wheels locked in Park

Not a gear lever connection problem, link to manual valve inside the valvehousing still a candidate.

Car has been sitting for 2 days, still same problem.

Next step is draining ATF from the pan and torque converter, hopefully no metal debris, then check the filter and finally check link to manual valve.

Unless I get any other good suggestions, the engine and transmission comes out.

 

Update 2:

Did a lot of research, including reading the MB troubleshooting workshop manual in German, (+Mitchel, ATSG) for the 722.3 transmission. Below is a summary:

Just did the 2b test, ATF level OK, no ATF in the cooling lines, means I have a primary pump problem, easy to get to, but need to take the engine and transmission out. Will check the transmission filter first though.

Anyone else who had a primary pump problem?

__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Fault: Transmissions 722.313, no drive, slips in all gears

Trouble shooting:
1. Check ATF level at dipstick, should be at lower mark when cold, upper when hot (80 c) and running
2. Check if Working pressure is too low or not present,
a) If available, connect pressure gauge (e.g. OTC5610) to the Working pressure port (RHS) and measure pressure, shall be 13,7+/- 1 bar/190 PSI for a 1985 500SL
b) Alternatively loosen one transmission oil cooler line from the radiator (19 mm). Run engine for a brief period and determine if oil pressure is present, if not continue to d)
c) Disassemble valve-housing, clean, repair Working pressure control valve, if required refurbish valve-housing
d) Remove Primary pump, inspect, and replace if required
3. Test the vacuum line from the manifold to the vacuum control unit, replace if clogged
4. Test Modulation pressure valve for ease of movement. Measure modulating pressure on test port if possible, adjust if needed. (disconnect vacuum line, remove rubber cap, pull and rotate) Modulating pressure shall be 4,0 bar /58 PSI for a 1985 500SL
5. Test “engage” damper valve (#58) (aka regulator valve damper) for ease of movement, the working pressure is too high if stuck.


If the Working pressure is normal and there is still no traction, the fault is either the gears or the on-way clutch.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Update 3- Problem found.

Removed the engine and transmission from the car. Removed the transmission, then the torque converter. As I removed the primary pump a small peace of metal fell out. Disassembling the primary pump showed that the two "knobs" that connect the pump gear to the TQ were no longer there. (See picture) With no drive, there would be no oil pressure to the TQ, and obviously no traction.

One picture shows what I think is one "knob" dislodged in the front pump housing, I also wonder if the front pump housing is OK, does anyone know if the splines should be visible?

I suspect that the root cause was that I wrongly installed the TQ (not engaging properly with the pump) Tightening everything with the bellhousing bolts may have excerted a lot of force and caused damage.

Any advice on what else should be checked/replaced?

 

This is the same basic arrangement as the 113 cars. You obviously need to replace the drive gear, and I would also replace the big o-ring seal on the front of the pump.

When you put the TC back in the transmission, it's critical that the TC and the drive gear "engage." Best done with the transmission upright and with three flywheel bolts installed and a wire harness between them so that you have good feel as you lower the TC into the transmission. When the TC is all the way in, hold it up just a bit and rotate it until you feel the dogs on the pump engage the slots on the TC. Then secure the TC with a piece of strap or wire so that it stays in place.

Also critical is installing the engine on the transmission. I suggest that you put a floor jack with a piece of wood under the transmission pan. Use wooden wedges under the pan to align the transmission with the back of the engine and use the jack to get the transmission perfectly level with the engined. Put some grease on the "snout" of the TC, then remove the strap/wire holding the TC and put the two together, making sure the TC does not slip out. You can use the bolts as guides, but NOT to pull the transmission up to the engine. The two have to go together without force. When they are joined, you can tighten the bolts. Be sure that the TC turns easily when the bolts have been tightened.

I learned this the hard way. Hope this helps and that the install goes well for you.

CT

 

Thanks for good advice CT, seems I learned this the hard way too.

My transmission came with a plastic piece holding the TQ in the right place, but had to remove it because it was touching the TQ, alarms should have gone off then.

I have ordered the front pump cover as well, shown in the picture with a dislodged piece of metal close to the shaft. I am wondering if any more metal has broken off and is hiding in the oil lines? What should be checked?

 

There are two drive "dogs" on the pump gear. Looks like you have found one of them. Suggest you fish around for the other one.

BTW, one thing I did when putting the trans and engine together. Run a piece of thin wire across the face of the TC securing the ends in the holes where the bellhousing bolts go. When you are maybe 2 mm from having the trans and engine together, remove the wire so the bellhousing can go the rest of the way.

Cheers,

CT

 

Update 4 - Car repaired

Bought new primary pump and front cover from MB, around $1600, but got them in three days. Installing them was quite easy, this time I used sealant on the pumphousing bolts.

Installing the torque converter required a bit of trial and error to make the pump drive "dogs" engage.
My car comes with a plastic pin which keeps the TC in place. With the TC properly installed there should be 5 mm clearance (see picture where I added 5 mm of paperstrips to keep the TC in place, easy to remove after the bellhousing bolts were tightened), there is no clearance if the dogs are not engaged in the TC.

Spent the weekend + (35 hrs) to install the engine and transmission, and have just taken the car for a succesful testdrive.

Installing the engine is not difficult, just a lot of work, the main issues were:
- Had to use a 500 kg loadstrap because the leveler did not have enough range
- Put the car on 4 ramps, had to remove 1 front one to clear the front
- Aligning the engine was quite easy when inserting the bolts through the arm from top whilst positioning
- More frustrating was installing the engine mount shield, arm and lower end of engine damper, took me 1 hr on each side, had to install the damper at the same time as the arm
- The captive exhaust copper nuts fall out easily and are nearly impossible to get at in a 500. Used a brazing rod formed as a clip to hold the nut and position from below whilst pushing and turning the bolt until it engaged with the nut.
- I also rotated the power steering pump by hand to make sure it had enough oil, they make some terrible noises if there is not enough oil.

To sum up, the reason for no drive in any gear was a broken primary pump caused by a wrong installation of the TC. When installing it, rotate it in small steps and find the angle where it drops all the way (pump drive gear engaged to the TC). The car will run for a while with a wrongly installed TC, but will drip every few seconds from the grille.

 

Impressive story! Even more impressive, when I know the work was done OUTSIDE with temperatures below freezing. Glad it worked out for you!

 

What happened?????
My car is doing the same thing!!

 

Hi, you will find the answer in Post #22
Good luck Martin

 

Maybe just top much play in the linkage of the shift lever.

Cheers Martin

 

I wish it was that simple. As it looking so far it is gonna be in the trans itself

 

When I changed my trans fluid and put in the amount according to the service manual it didn't want to move. I think because the torque converter was also drained. I added some and it gradually started to move. It's fine now had to add more a couple of times but it shifts much better than before I changed the fluid. It was scary when I put it in reverse then drive and it didn't move. Small rise where the garage floor starts and it wouldn't go over it at first. Oh crap just what I need!!! I ended up putting about 1 qt more than the manual showed to get it to the top of the stick mark.

 

hie there. any update on what you did?

 

On what WHO did.

There are more than one participant.