[Noodles]

I guess I am lost, because as of Sept last year the A001 989 17 03 10 was still approved
on a chart that the dealer had that was printed in 2010.
If I have the wrong stuff in there obviously I am going to change it to the right stuff.

I just do not see in this image where the A001 989 33 03 10 is approved for the W211.
I do see the Mobil 1 approval in another image from post #34. They were out
of it at the local parts store. I live rurally, the dealer was the closest place.

 

[isstay]

Fuchs 75W85 is on MB 235.7 approval sheet. In post #34 look at the picture from MB repair disk. It says that all of the mentioned E class rear diferentials are factory fill w/this oil since 2001.

 

[gild]

I guess I am lost, because as of Sept last year the A001 989 17 03 10 was still approved
on a chart that the dealer had that was printed in 2010.
If I have the wrong stuff in there obviously I am going to change it to the right stuff.

I just do not see in this image where the A001 989 33 03 10 is approved for the W211.
I do see the Mobil 1 approval in another image from post #34. They were out
of it at the local parts store. I live rurally, the dealer was the closest place.

Noodles,

My head is spinning trying to figure all this out. I use factory 001 989 17 03 10 in my W211. The service book for my GL says to use 001 989 33 03 10 but I can't find what this is or anywhere to buy it.

Why is it different? Where can I get this? What do you use in your ML? Don't suggest my dealership because I have experience that they throw in whatever is on the shelf.

Thanks.

 

[isstay]

A001 989 17 03 10 is 85W90 oil. I used Mobil1 Syn. (75W90) because service department was trying to sell me Valvoline Syn (75W90) and they told me that this is per MBUSA and what they put in cars.

 

[edwinwalke]

A001 989 17 03 10 is 85W90 oil. I used Mobil1 Syn. (75W90) because service department was trying to sell me Valvoline Syn (75W90) and they told me that this is per MBUSA and what they put in cars.

I ran 75W90 Mobil 1 Synthetic in a 99 E300D for over a 100K miles and never had a problem. When I sold it at a little over 200K Miles differential was fine -- no leaks, no noise.

 

[isstay]

I ran 75W90 Mobil 1 Synthetic in a 99 E300D for over a 100K miles and never had a problem. When I sold it at a little over 200K Miles differential was fine -- no leaks, no noise.

Mine is fine too. I think that 75W90 will give you better protection and performance when is cold. I already put 20000 miles on it and no problems!

By the way the bottle has Mercedes logo on the cap., but is not on any MB approval sheet.

 

[MBCDI320]

Well my head is still spinning but from all that I can now glean, is that 75W90 Mobil 1 Syn. is suitable for my E320 CDI. I travel back and forth between the PNW and Florida following the comfortable climate. Thanks for all the information.

 

[drivbiwire]

The MB (dealer) 85w90 has 50% higher shear strength than the Mobil 1 75w90 at 40C.

40C is the typical operating temperature of a differential in most conditions.
75w90 = 99 cSt @40C
85w90 = 153 cSt @40C
If you have to ask, higher value is better.

The viscosity trends downward and both are equal at 100C, however 100C isn't a temperature the differential will ever see.

MB as of the latest guidance in the W211 does NOT want the 75w90 used especially in the Diesel applications...for obvious reasons (torque).

 

[Noodles]

I am going with Drivbiwire on this. I am aware of the Mercedes bulletin that says the new
spec lube can be used, but in the ML and the E500 all diffs have been changed to the MB branded 85w90.
With 4000+ lb vehicles I would rather have the protection than the minute
fuel economy increase which was the primary reason MB put out the bulletin for the thinner lube.

 

[isstay]

The MB (dealer) 85w90 has 50% higher shear strength than the Mobil 1 75w90 at 40C.

40C is the typical operating temperature of a differential in most conditions.
75w90 = 99 cSt @40C
85w90 = 153 cSt @40C
If you have to ask, higher value is better.

The viscosity trends downward and both are equal at 100C, however 100C isn't a temperature the differential will ever see.

MB as of the latest guidance in the W211 does NOT want the 75w90 used especially in the Diesel applications...for obvious reasons (torque).

I am going with Drivbiwire on this. I am aware of the Mercedes bulletin that says the new
spec lube can be used, but in the ML and the E500 all diffs have been changed to the MB branded 85w90.
With 4000+ lb vehicles I would rather have the protection than the minute
fuel economy increase which was the primary reason MB put out the bulletin for the thinner lube.

Are we going to sing the old song with new tunes?

I will not argue about anything, I will present the facts and please, before you guys start winning read everything in those pictures.

MB prefills all E class cars w/following gear sizes (look at the picture) with synthetic fill-for life, universal hypoid gear oil, SAE 75W-85 since 04.11.2001 and this oil is made by Fuchs Europe, MB part # A 001 989 33 03. This oil is on MB 235.7 Rear axle gear oils (Specification 235.7) plus Fuchs TITAN SINTOPOID FE 75W-85 and Mobilube FE 75W-85. How comes this can be install in M, R and G class in both axels? They also have high torque engines. Page 13 from Factory Approved Service Products.

http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/doclist.jsp

I look through all gear oil Spec sheets three times and I was not able to locate MB Hypoid Gear Oil (85W-90) MB Part No. A 001 989 17 03 10. Maybe MB is phasing it out (Mercedes-Benz Specifications for Operating Fluids (MB BeVo) web info is been updated on 09.14.2011).

Mercedes-Benz Specifications for Operating Fluids: Overview Sheets

But I pay attention to the outdated Factory Approved Service Products August 2007 which I download from STAR TekInfo web page, dated there 06.05.2008. and I notice number three after the “Recommended” oil MB Hypoid Gear Oil (85W-90)ᵌ, and what this small tree means: ᵌMeets sheet 235.7 specification. Page 12.

And my head is spinning now: how come 85W-90 is better than 75W-85, but meets same specs? Is it MB going to flush millions down the drain because they factory fill most of the cars w/75W-85 when they face all the warranty claims for differential repair? Alternatively, 75W-85 maybe offers same protection like 85W-90, or vice versa.

Let us look at the Fuchs 75W-85 specs vs. Mobil1 75W90. Which one has higher shear strength at 40⁰C? And Mobil1 cst@40⁰C is 106, not 99. There is also Fuchs 75W-90 which gets into big rig (Scania, Iveco, Mack, MAN) differentials and it has higher shear strength than 75W-85. But those don’t make that much torque, only around 1500 lbf-ft at 1200 rpm, and they don’t haul much weight, only between 35 000 to 120 000 pounds all day long.

I would like to get one of those 40⁰C differential, because apparently mine is running little bit hot, if I remember almost burn my hand on it when I change the fluid and if it’s available running w/o cooling system engine too.

Tolerances into the differentials are very small; otherwise gears will get damaged easily, so all the friction when power is transferred to the wheels (change in torque direction) create lots of heat.

 

[drivbiwire]

I would like to get one of those 40⁰C differential, because apparently mine is running little bit hot, if I remember almost burn my hand on it when I change the fluid and if it’s available running w/o cooling system engine too.

After driving for about 1.5 hours (50% highway 90mph, 50% city stop and go) I measured the differential temperature

Drum roll......

47.5C (82F outside air temperature)

If your differential is running hot it's probably due to the wrong viscosity driving up the shear and friction in the gear sets.

FWIW I took a sample of the fluid when I drained it from my differential and it came back as an 85w90 within a few cSt of the factory claimed specs (153 cSt).

Also, depending on the design of the final drive you could in theory build it to use a 0W oil, however due to size constraints the loads on the individual gears goes up thus requiring a higher viscosity range.

A large truck could probably get away with a 75w90, but the differential in an MB being 1/10th it's size and handling 30-40% of the same torque cannot.

Again, the fluid called for in my service sheets on my 2006 W211 CDI all call for ONLY the 85w90.

Now, if you live in Europe where you have a much lower ambient temperature than we do here in the US, the 75w90 may very well be suitable. However with higher average temperature ranges the requirements for higher 40C viscosities are mandated.

Also worth noting, this is why in the US 5w30 (or worse 0w30) viscosity ranges are NOT approved, again due to the climate exceeding the safe operating temperature ranges they are intended for.

For the 85w90, MB uses a very high end synthetic base stock to achieve the lower pour point and still retain the higher temperature shear strength.

 

[drivbiwire]

From Fuchs, the current specification and viscosity ranges for 2011:

MB-sheet Application area
MB 235.0 Hypoid gear oils SAE 85W-90, SAE 90
MB 235.1 Gear oils SAE 80, 80W/85W
MB 235.4 Synthetic gear oils SAE 75W/85W
MB 235.5 Gear oils SAE 80, 80W/85W
MB 235.6 Hypoid gear oils SAE 85W-90, SAE 90
MB 235.7 FE-hypoid gear oils SAE 85W-90
MB 235.8 Hypoid gear oils SAE 75W-90
MB 235.9 Axle oils for ZF automatic transmissions
MB 235.10 MTF
MB 235.11 FE-MTFs for extended drain intervals
MB 235.12 Manual gearbox oils SAE 30, 40
MB 235.13 Fully-synthetic manual gearbox oils
MB 235.15 Hypoid gear oils SAE 75W-85
MB 235.20 Mineral axle oils, LD, SAE 80W-90
MB 235.27 Retarder oils NFZ, category voith A
MB 235.28 Retarder oils NFZ, category voith B
MB 235.29 Retarder oils NFZ, category voith C
MB 235.61 Hypoid gear oils, AMG

 

[Noodles]

I knew somebody was going to post the bulletin.

We checked my diff gear # and it was 85w90 from the factory because it was a 4matic.
So when I did it I decided to keep it the same.
The rear diffs on the 4matics all got 85w90 according to the MB regional service manager
until the 2007 MY. The front diffs did also.
Also I had 4 liters on the shelf so I wanted to use it up. It is very hilly here and in the winter
the 4matic system gets a serious workout and I knew the 85w90 was not going to cause
any harm at all.

Like you I am not looking for a debate. We both know that MB has changed the acceptable
viscosity. The 85w90 is still on the approved list and is a more durable lube. Whether
or not it cuts down on wear over the lighter grade is something I may never know as
there is no set plan as to how long I am keeping the car. Actually shopping right now
for a diesel.

 

[isstay]

From Fuchs, the current specification and viscosity ranges for 2011:

MB-sheet Application area
MB 235.0 Hypoid gear oils SAE 85W-90, SAE 90
MB 235.1 Gear oils SAE 80, 80W/85W
MB 235.4 Synthetic gear oils SAE 75W/85W
MB 235.5 Gear oils SAE 80, 80W/85W
MB 235.6 Hypoid gear oils SAE 85W-90, SAE 90
MB 235.7 FE-hypoid gear oils SAE 85W-90
MB 235.8 Hypoid gear oils SAE 75W-90
MB 235.9 Axle oils for ZF automatic transmissions
MB 235.10 MTF
MB 235.11 FE-MTFs for extended drain intervals
MB 235.12 Manual gearbox oils SAE 30, 40
MB 235.13 Fully-synthetic manual gearbox oils
MB 235.15 Hypoid gear oils SAE 75W-85
MB 235.20 Mineral axle oils, LD, SAE 80W-90
MB 235.27 Retarder oils NFZ, category voith A
MB 235.28 Retarder oils NFZ, category voith B
MB 235.29 Retarder oils NFZ, category voith C
MB 235.61 Hypoid gear oils, AMG

This are the Spec sheets only, and they are from Fuchs's catalog, same info like BeVo web site, but in this catalog Fuchs list only onefluid that is 235.7 approved and is fill for life - 75W-85 . I think that this 85W-90 is marketing trick pulled by MB. How comes 75W-90 is good for South parts of EU, but not for USA.

Here are the Fuchs's catalogs and also on this page you can go to oil chooser and find recomended oil for every car.
Brochures

235.7 spec are for 75W-85 oils, MB states that 85W-90 meets those specs, so did this make both oils equal in protection even they have different specs, because 85W-90 is older than 75W-85 and it was in 235.0 and 235.6? And don't be fooled by all numbers from 235.10 to 235.61 those are lower intermittent specs and should be between 235.1 and 235.6!

And why 85W-90 # A 001 989 17 03 is not listed any more on BeVo's web site?

 

[2slowcdi]

After getting my car I checked everything out and found a axle seal leak on the diff ,
when I went to change the gear oil with the 85w90 from MB.
It stopped leaking and has not leaked in the 30,000 miles from the change.

I will not use anything else.

 

[Noodles]

This are the Spec sheets only, and they are from Fuchs's catalog, same info like BeVo web site, but in this catalog Fuchs list only onefluid that is 235.7 approved and is fill for life - 75W-85 . I think that this 85W-90 is marketing trick pulled by MB. How comes 75W-90 is good for South parts of EU, but not for USA.

Here are the Fuchs's catalogs and also on this page you can go to oil chooser and find recomended oil for every car.
Brochures

235.7 spec are for 75W-85 oils, MB states that 85W-90 meets those specs, so did this make both oils equal in protection even they have different specs, because 85W-90 is older than 75W-85 and it was in 235.0 and 235.6? And don't be fooled by all numbers from 235.10 to 235.61 those are lower intermittent specs and should be between 235.1 and 235.6!

And why 85W-90 # A 001 989 17 03 is not listed any more on BeVo's web site?

It really is crazy. I agree that it should be much more clearly defined by MB.
By spending time in EU you get great info on the cars US owners would not
normally seek out.
I would like to think that the gears are strong enough to handle either fluid
in all climates.

Around me I can not get Fuchs at all unless I want to pay a small fortune
in shipping so getting my wholesale price at the dealer is actually cheaper
for either grade.
A 001 989 17 03 still shows as a valid part# in the US EPC system. Not sure
why it is gone at the BeVo website. There are over 40 liters in stock between
the two local dealers I buy MB parts from.

 

[isstay]

Dealers are still using 85W-90, but when I ask about the difference between 75W-85 and 85W-90 and what oil is in the car since Star Service disk states 75W-85, they say that they don’t know. Then I questioned the accuracy of the info from the disk, but was told that is probably accurate because when MB presents car for EPA certification and specs are established, they cannot change anything after that unless they recertify the car. SM told me that they are using 85W-90 because they have a lot of it and has been around for long time, but he mention that they are expecting new bulletin from MB, which will address some changes regarding service fluids. One thing he says with sure is switching to ATF134 for all cars, I guess 353 is been retired.
My dealer does not stock 85W-90 and they offer me 75W-90 Valvoline SynPower again yesterday. If I want to get 85W-90, I have to order it. SM says that they do not do many differentials since they are “fill for life” and they do not use much of the 85W-90 they have, only if they do repair on leaking gasket or something else, so does not know how old the drum w/85W-90 is.
You can get Fuchs 75W-85 but needs to be ordered and they are asking for little bit over 50$ for a bottle.
Yes, A 001 989 17 03 is still valid part #, but when I check all recommended fluids for my car, I notice a notation under, that says W210, not sure what means?

 

[isstay]

After getting my car I checked everything out and found a axle seal leak on the diff ,
when I went to change the gear oil with the 85w90 from MB.
It stopped leaking and has not leaked in the 30,000 miles from the change.

I will not use anything else.

Where was leaking from? Do you have any information if the fluid is been changed by first owner, or may be had the original oil 75W-85? Mine never leaked – prior or after I changed the oil. 85W-90 is thicker, but this should be temporary fix, if differential seals start leaking it is just matter of time to get worse. It is like seals on the valve lifters, when they start knocking you can switch to higher viscosity oil and will be ok for some time, but they still need replacement at some point.

 

[isstay]

It really is crazy. I agree that it should be much more clearly defined by MB.

Noodles, I agree with you. It is not clear for average "Joe", because he does not have access to MB resources. Just came back from the dealership after looking at WIS recommendation for differential fluid for my car.
Guess what it says …………. 75W-85, and it cost 54$.
I now that you have access to WIS, so please can you confirm this, so we can rest this tread.
I am asking you to look up info for regular E class (E350, E320, and E320 CDI), not 4MATIC or AMG cars.

 

[Noodles]

That is so crazy, the dealers here sell the 85w90 for $20 or less. My price is $14.
The ML needs over three liters and the E500 was right around a liter. $200 for 4 liters
is insanity. No wonder the dealers are putting the Valvoline in.

My dealer could not find the 75w85 for half a day. When they called back I told them
the vehicles were done with the 85w95. The parts manager told me that they have to
order a case and that seeing as they never sold one bottle I would have to buy the
whole case. I never got pricing because I never ordered it. Having $500-$600
tied up in one case of fluid would have been insane.

Thanks for the update.

Will look at WIS and post back