I'd avoid the 3.0L M104 24V engines, they use the older CIS system, and require a specific unobtanium EZL ignition module, when it fries, you're pretty much out of luck (or its extremely expensive). THe 3.2L M104's use HFM-SFI injection, with an integrated ECM which seems much more robust, they also have more low end torque, and a start-in-1st transmission.

the coupes I've looked at have often been more thrashed than the sedans, for what thats worth. driven hard, put away wet.

 

I'd avoid the 3.0L M104 24V engines, they use the older CIS system, and require a specific unobtanium EZL ignition module, when it fries, you're pretty much out of luck (or its extremely expensive).

What are usually the symptoms of a fried EZL, anyway? I would hazard a guess that the EZL either works or it doesn't, hence making the car either run or not run.

But is there a middle ground somewhere where it makes the car run bad or something? Of course I'm mainly thinking about my 91 CE here which has certain running issues, but going through those is a topic of another thread.

Just wondering in general terms here, so maybe somebody considering buying one could identify potential middle ground issues caused by the unobtanium EZL.

 

I have read about the EZL ignition issue and why some recommend the older M103 engine cars. No issues with the M103 and the EZL?

Of course the 300CE-24 I was going to go look at is a 1990 with only 89,000 miles. Risky?

The 3.2 being the better motor was offered in 1992-1993 in the 300CE and 1993-1994 in the 300E??? Kind of limits me but, I'm not opposed to looking far and wide for THE car.

Any experience with the 4matic all wheel drive as far as dependability? Not that I'm searching one out specifically but if I come across a good deal could it be "too good to be true" because 4matic in these early years were less than reliable?

 

m103, most reliableof the bunch, may be a bit low on power for some people however it is the smoothest, specially the USA/california version, yet i find that the power & gearing is spot on for the car, it also suffers from head gasket as every straigh 6 of MB of that series.

M104 300CE-24, it shares much of its injection components with the m103 however the electrical system differs quite a lot, the modules are unique for the m104 & can be quite expensive to buy & difficult to find. Power wise it lacks some torque on the low end of the rev range but the gearing of the 5 speed trans counters it (there are some electrical problem regarding the 5th gear electro-valve, it is a pain in the *** to sort it out but usually cheap), but with the 4 speed it is very noticiable. Also at full throttle it should be the faster of the bunch, as it has about 40 hp more than the m103, the 104 produces more heat & the refrigeration system is the same for both engines, so overheating it is not that hard, (a good flush & cleaning of the system can sort this out) making it more prone to headgasket problems.

M104 320E, HFI-SFi injection, quite reliable system apart from the bio degradable harness(upper, lower & throttle by wire) it shares the same headgasket & overheating problems with the other engines, has a lot more torque in the lower range yet the throttle by wire can be an instant turn off when driving fast for some of us(specially when its wire harness start to fail & it becomes quite difficult to accelerate as much as you want).

I own a 300CE-24 & my dad owns a m103 300CE, i talk a lot more of the 300CE-24 as i know every little problem that can happen to it's engine. Anyways just buy the car in the best condition regarless of what engine or equipment it may have.

 

Choices



I own 3 124's and have a few friends with them as well. Based upon real experiences and shared experiences on the forums here is what I would do.

First off, I like the coupes shape much better than the sedans, I have 1 coupe and 2 sedans.

The weak spot for the coupe is the 104 motor in general, and WestCoasts comments on the 104 is spot on. I own a 92 300CE, it runs great, but someday the EZL may go, and with it the car could become a parts car. The EZL could cost the same as the value of a fair condition coupe.

So if going for the coupe, go facelift, 94 & 95 for the better 104's, and do not let the wire harness thing stop you. Most of them have been changed already, and if not, just deduct the cost to replace harnesses from the buying price. The engine wire harness is a DIY, about 2 hours and a couple of beers. The starter harness is a 4 hour job.

But if you are contemplating a sedan, the very best choice is a 92 to 95 E400E. I have one of those also, a 94 E420.

If you get a chance to drive either a 400E (92 & 93), or a E420 (94 & 95), do so, it has been our car of choice to drive on trips for a long time, it's just a joy to drive.

I just purchased a 500E which I haven't been able to drive yet, it's in for repairs, but I expect that will become my new fav at some point.

But for consideration my choices would be;

1 - 400E or E420 - the 119 engine is just bullet proof, and the cars drive so well, clearly a level above the 6 cylinders, seriously drive one

2 - Coupe E320 - Best looking 124 with the good 104.992 motor

3 - E320 Sedan - preferred 104.992 motor

Good Luck Hunting...

PS: just noticed you posted while I was typing... no 4 matic...stay away from them period...!

 

^ What Aero I says is spot on. Every M104 (except the 24v) will have eco-junk wiring; do not let that deter you. The M104 is a significant upgrade to the M103. Avoid the 4Matic, unless the transfer case, transmission and SLS have been replaced with new or high quality rebuilds. I see no value in buying the 24v, unless the price is too good to pass up. The 400/420's are great cars, but also have eco-junk wiring, which I already told you not to be deterred by that.

Records, records, records, and no rust are critical buying points. M103 and M104 both have head gasket issues. And the transmission is a guarantee failure at some point before 200K miles (often starting at 100-125K miles). And if the ac does not work, don't accept the "just needs a recharge" bs; the evaporator core is a known issue, and a bitch to replace.

 

When the EZL is dead, the car won't run....no middle ground.

 

Don't be scared off by the 4Matic naysayers...most of them never had one. However, they can be a pain to sort out if they have been neglected and most are neglected, unfortunately. BUT....it's pointless to have one if you're not going to use the 4Matic feature as a winter car, where you have lots of snow & ice(read NEEDING a 4WD car).

Kevin

 

Buy the best condition w124 you can get your hands on. Everything else is irrelevant.

 

records and attention to detail



records are critical
if it does not have a large books of receipts or records (or a personal ledger) - WALK AWAY !
If the person does not know the car- i.e. they are flipping it- walk away (most owners of these cars are passionate about them)

If there is no evidence to show that the timing chain has been replaced- walk away.

I personally like to look at the overall condition of the car- look for rust underneath and then the look for presentation: is the car dirty ? did they do a half assed job of cleaning it before trying to sell it? is it clean in between the seats and the center console?
are there any leaks coming from the engine, transmission, AC Condenser ?
is the engine bay dirty ? or clean because they are trying to sell it ? are the wheels dirty ?

For me, its the little things that are signs to a well maintained car or a neglected car.

to answer the original question- go for the higher HP 24 V M104 Engine. the 24V engine makes 217HP, the M103 engine makes 177HP. there is a noticeable difference in acceleration between the 2 Engines. However, there is a catch, the M103 is bulletproof in terms of durability. The M104 has minor leaks.

 

either body style is GTG

Coupe or Sedan are good,however; having owned both styles, I love the COUPE. its lines are classic and its more rare than a sedan.

 

I have never owned a M104 powered car that was drivable so I can't really add anything but I have owned both a M103 and M119 and the only reason I sold my 400E was I wanted a wagon. The M119 powered 400E420 is by far the most bang for your buck in a W124.

 

Thanks for all of the info. Sounds like I am now thinking of the later E320E with the known bio harness issue but no EZL issues. Good advice that these faulty harnesses have probably already been changed or maybe a good bargaining chip if one hasn't been changed.

Second dilemma now is the advice on the 400E/E420. I was kind of shying away from a V8 car thinking the i6 motors would be more reliable and simpler to work on if something did need to be fixed. One less manifold, one less head, etc... I'm probably a bit biased as I own a BMW X5 with an I6, my 300SD has the wonderful OM617 I5, my 190 the I4 (I6 with just too less cylinders) and my baby a 1987 BMW M6 with a Euro M88 I6. The only V configuration vehicle I own is a P38 Range Rover and that I am in the process of putting new head gaskets on, a known issue for these motors.

Are the M119s really that reliable? I'm sure they make a lot more power which is nice, but not a must have. That is why I have the M6.

I assume the later model 400E and E420 are appointed a little better?

 

Sounds like I am now thinking of the later E320E with the known bio harness issue but no EZL issues.

Not a bad choice. I still wouldn't rule out a 104.980 cars, either. Especially if the car checks out good everywhere and is priced properly.

Yes, the EZL can become an issue, it is after all an electronic device working in a harsh environment, but there are rebuilt ones available for under 500 bucks. There is no need to pay out the wazoo to the dealer, IF they even are still available from them.

 

The M119 does not have head gasket issues to worry about, but space is tighter in the engine bay. It is equally appointed as its E320 counterpart.

 

All are good, Just avoid the 260E, Its just a bottom feeder model and for the same price you can get basically everything else in Sedan form minus the 500E.

By the best you can, Records speak a thousand words

 

I have found HGS & MAS modules for my 104.980 for under 60 buck each at ebay, usually from Russia, Ukraine or albania where w124 are as common as vodka.

EDIT HGS module.

 

Ain't no such thing as a DSG or GSM module on a W124

 

Keep in mind that the m104 in the 93-94 cars has no distributor cap or CIS. It's a more modern system with MAF and multiple coil packs. Personally I've found this is my favorite of the 6-cylinder cars. Less fussy getting the idle perfect, fewer injection related things to go wrong. Of course this is no comment on the v8, it's a different animal.

 

otoh, the coilpacks and short wires for the alternate plugs are a $$ wear item as they tend to fail from heat and age.

btw, its 93-95 for the M104.992 HFM-SFI engine.

 

Your final choices are good ones, coupe or sedan with a 104.992 motor or the 119 V8.

You should drive both if at all possible, as much as I love my coupe, the E420 is the car to drive.

If only Mercedes had optioned a 119 in the Coupes, that would be the best choice of them all if they had done that.

 

<cough> they missed two. 420TE V8 wagon, and a 420CE V8 Cabriolet. </cough>

 

LOL..



Point taken... and agreed upon..

V8's for them all.... but only the 500 for the Coupes... LOL...naw..OK the Cab's too...

 

You could always get a 500SL, the R129 is really a short wheelbase W124, with the 5.0. no back seat, awwwww.

 

On Point



I like the way you think, I couldn't agree more, here is my 2000 with the Pano in storage...

 

Having lived with this I6 for over two decades...make my next a V8 please. Always was a V8 guy(except for the XKE), not sure how I wound up with this little I6. Never bothered me to work on a V8 that was shoehorned into the engine bay. At least it gave you rewards of incredible torque and poise for your efforts. You might swear a little working on it, but it was always worth the effort.

Kevin

 

OTOH, the mercedes m103/m104 straight 6s are turbine smooth, and have plenty of power for sane driving. I've always been an I4 kinda guy (VW's, Volvos, etc) with occasional straight 6's (old ford pickup, TR-6)

 

OR you can have the best of all 3 worlds (smoothness AND power along with W124 DNA) by getting a R129 600 series.

I love that engine (essentially 2 M104 engines joined at the hip without any headgasket issues), 408 ponies, gobs of torque, and decent mpg as long as you don't do stop and go / city driving.

And no V8 sounds like a V12 turning 4000rpm or more while getting pressed into the back of the seat all the way to redline, 155mph (or more), or until you soil your undercarriage.

Bonus: by having redundant systems, ECU, EZL, coil, distributor, etc, etc, etc it is very tolerant for being able to get you home without leaving you stranded. Example: A bad EZL on a V8 M119 will leave you stranded, game over. In other words, the V12 can run on 6 six cylinders. I've even tried running it on 4. Not a happy engine, but refused to die.

Another bonus: you get in essence 2 X M104.980 motors while kicking CIS-E injection to the curb (it has LH). Never understood why MB still bothered with CIS in the M104.980. And unlike the M104.980, the EZLs rarely die.

 

I read (on some 500SL owners blog) that the 600SL's were kind of heavy and didn't really have much more power than the updated/later R129 SL500's ... huh.

I test drove a few 500SL's before buying my 300CE Cab. I saw a bunch of beat up and trashed cars, and some sorta-OK-but kinda-rough-aruond the edges car that needed work. was a low mileage always-garaged white one in Carmel I think I might have liked, but it got snatched up off CL before I connected, so I never saw it.

 

There is a about a 300lb difference in curbweight between a 500SL and 600SL.

At the same time, there is also about a 90 hp difference as well in the 600SL and about 80ft lb torque diff (about 350 vs. 430). These numbers for both engines depend on model year with the earlier ones being the higher.

Think of it as the diff between a M103 and a M104, only twice as much.

And when you really need to bring out the big guns, there is always the 7.0 or 7.3L version. I have a 7.00L AMG version sitting on a palette for when the day comes (in about a year when annual inspections are no longer required). That'll bring about 500hp of goodness and about 720nm of torque.