[pinkster]

Looks like you may be getting somewhere with this one. Good luck with the new valves.

 

[Dave2302]

Hi Guys,
@Kajtek1 @mrboca @pinkster @Deplore

OK, so the Parts arrived just before Xmas, but by then I was on my S Class for some of the 2 weeks Holiday :grin

So, got back on the E Class Monday.

I found a WIS Vac System Diagram, there are 4 of these Valves, 2 Switchover Valves and 2 Pressure Transducer Valves that operate the Turbo and EGR Cooler.

I ordered 2 of each, decided it was prudent to do all 4 as two of them are a right "Bear" to get at once all the bits are back on :wink

There is 1 more on this Vac System, a 3rd Switchover Valve which controls the Coolant Pump but that's not too bad to do and was functioning fine :wink

Fitted them yesterday, and got the Car running on SDS, all Actuations now passed, it also sounds and runs a whole lot better.

So, back on with the Air Filter Box etc etc, and a 35 mile road test last night, goes like a rocket, all good and repeated the same this morning :wink

A final Code Read, no Engine Codes at all,now, so re fitted Undershields and Engine Covers and Customer is picking it up Friday, and he is leaving his Smart Car, which is also in limp

I also fitted a Transmission Mount which has got rid of the nasty vibration inside the Car :grin

Including all the other work, ABS, Rear Brakes, Trans Mount etc total Invoice just north of £2050 :grin

MB WIS says you can do these Valves under the Intake from underneath the Car.........PAH :frown

1 of them yeah, but the other 2 under Intake Manifold, you'd need tiny hands, midget installed in Engine Bay etc............

I removed Vac Reservoir and EGR Cooler to get at them, as I wanted to check all the Pipes were OK anyways :wink

See Pics, the Snap On Screwdriver Blade is resting on the one that does EGR Cooler, the Blade is 14" long !!
Engine Mount and Subframe prevent access from underside :wink

So 5 nightmare jobs have come in since September 17th, there is now only one "Bear" left to fix, and that's a 2 Stage Turbo OM646 Sprinter, down to one Code now, "Air Flow Offset Drift", which is a bit of a beast code, could be a Pipework Leak, maybe a blocked DPF etc etc.................. On to that tomorrow :wink
I bought a new Turbo System Leak Testing Kit, arrived Today, see my Workshop Thread for Pics :wink

Cheers Dave

pics:-

 

[Deplore]

Wow awesome. I'm surprised the customer is ok with you holding this car for two-three months. You don't find that nowadays.

Congratulations!

And yes, the sprinter one sounds like either a vacuum leak through leaky boost hoses, or stuck waste gate valve.

If I remember correctly MB measures the amount of air coming in and compares to expected values...I think it uses MAF and MAP for the first stage measurement (pre intake) and nox sensor plus one more sensor I forgot (had some gobbledygook technical name) to measure post exhaust. Those two values have to be similar (or fall within a predetermined table value) for there to be no codes.

 

[Dave2302]

Hi,
@Kajtek1 @mrboca @pinkster @Deplore

See the bit about Sprinter OM646 below please guys, struggling with that one, the E Class was easy in comparison :wink

LOL, I've had the E Class here 12 - 13 weeks, but no one else round here could fix it, and some of the time I've been doing other work, waiting on Parts etc etc. Then take off 2 weeks Xmas Hols lol, I spent 24 hrs total actually working / diagnosis testing on it, over about 4 to 5 days

His other option would have been Main Dealer in Inverness, or a dodgy bad reputation Indie in Inverness which is 160 odd mile round trip for him, being a Skye man :wink
Also his bill at MB would have been £3 - 4k, and he'd have had a ton of parts he didn't need, at least I got it all nailed on "Round 2", the First Round got rid of the EGT and O2 Sensor Codes, so it needed them :wink

Customers up here are never that bothered about time, sometimes have to chase them to pick cars up.............

Slower pace of life in the Highlands :laugh

Now, onto that bloody Sprinter...................

It has put up a different code today, 2355-002 EGR Rate too high, which I had on the last "Round" so I replaced EGR, then got it to Regen DPF successfully, after which it gave the "Air Flow Offset Drift" Code :wink

So far this Van has had new Battery, a new MAF, new EGR, new Lambda, and new EGT Sensor, also new Air Filter just in case...............

All MB parts, and all teach in process done, plus the DPF Regen, which made it pull better but only for about 30 miles *, then I cleared codes that had come back, and did another Regen, drove better again after that. See * below.

It is also needing a lot of Cranking to fire up, worse when it's part warmed up, despite Injectors passing Leak off test, they were replaced by another Garage last year, it also has decent Rail Pressure when Cranking ~265 bar , and recently it has also had a Fuel Quantity Valve and a Fuel Temp Sensor in the Main Pump, which was also checked for the "loose bolts syndrome", all to no avail..............

It is still hard to start, and down on Power :dunno: , actually right now, "fecked if I know" :devil

I dropped the Downpipe at the Turbo today, it was still a cow to start, I am currently comparing Air Flow etc Data from Exhaust attached on / Exhaust Off at Turbo Joint.

EGR, Throttle Valve, Both Turbo Actators, Pre Glow and EGR, Throttle Butterfly etc all pass DAS Actuation Tests.

Only Data that is reading bad is Air Flow on Idle, it is at ~510 mg/Hub and DAS is saying it should be around 380 mg/Hub, plus DAS says on Idle EGR should be around 20% but Actual Value is 6%, same since I replaced the EGR, should I be stripping down Inlet and EGR Pipes and looking for a blockage, with EGR Motor and Valve out of the End of the Intake it didn't look Coked Up ?????????? that's why I changed the EGR Motor and Valve ................... :dunno:

It's got me foxed ATM

Going to leak test Pipework etc after lunch :wink

I have tried on BenzWorld Sprinter Forum but to no avail, I've googled etc etc.

"Offset Drift On Idle Code", the Van in Limp Mode, a German guy on U Tube rectified a leak on Boost Joint and cured it, hence me buying the Leak Tester Kit :wink

Anyone got any Ideas ???????

Lunch getting cold, TTFN ...........

OK, back to it after Lunch :wink ............

All Data with Exhaust back on still remains very similar, all the same stuff passes, the only anomalies are Air Flow and EGR rate, same as with Exhaust Off :frown

*DPF Ash and Soot levels low and still well within spec, I suspect it is the recurrence of Fault codes causing lack of power not an Exhaust / DPF Blockage, because obviously I have to clear the codes before it will do a Re Gen, so then I drive it, and it pulls well until the codes come back

So we know Air Flow reading is high mg/Hub and EGR reading is low % but why

I have leak tested from Turbo to Throttle Butterfly, no perceptible Boost leakage, took it up to 20psi still good :frown

I reckon I'm gonna have to pull all the Intake Manifold off it tomorrow to see if there is any leakage / cracks in plastic etc :dunno:

What do you guys think ???

TIA,

Cheers Dave

pic new Boost Leak Tester in action :-

 

[Deplore]

Turbo to Throttle

No no, before that. Based on your results, there is extra air coming in that's not accounted for. Since you did a smoke test on turbo to throttle, it is air tight there... But what about the y pipe fitting? Or the giant PCV with valve that connects to the y pipe just before turbo?

 

[pinkster]

As you have replaced parts of the EGR and you are having low flow with it, this is where I would be inclined to check further. Check for a build-up causing a blockage, if you have a endoscope I would also check the intake for build-up. Also next time you have SDS on it check the fuel trim and see what it is doing.

 

[Dave2302]

Hi,

Some interesting thoughts from you both, also helpful to keep me focused and not go off on tangent, thank you :wink

OK,
@Deplore,

I take it the Y Pipe you are referring to is the Air Filter to MAF to Turbo Plastic one, which has a Sensor Teed into it and heads off to the Cam Cover via a 1-1.5" hose ?? This is the only Crankcase Vent I have seen on it :wink
The Maf to Turbo Plastic Pipe is good, have checked it for Splits, and Joints each end are good :wink
Haven't looked at PCV, will look today if I get time :wink
@pinkster,

I think I have checked Fuel Trim, will do it again, don't think it was off, will try again when I get back on it.

When I changed EGR, what I could see and feel of the EGR Flow ports and the Manifold did not look coked up, it actually looked quite clean :wink
I don't have an endoscope, may be buying one in the near future :laugh

The thing with "Low EGR" Flow is this, on Idle it should be around 20%, it is actually 6%, when doing the DAS test and it opens right up, it passes ok, Air Flow drops down during Actuation, and EGR % goes right up, which suggests to me it is working OK :wink
Also that low of 6% is exactly the same as with the original EGR, which suggests to me I now have a good used EGR to put on my shelf for testing the next Sprinter with EGR grief :big laugh:

AFAIK, these Engines detect EGR from the drop in Air Flow, so if that is high on Idle, surely CDI ECU would think that the EGR Flow is low and report that low, (6% instead of 20%), but also, moving on, if it were blocked passage etc, and so only passing 6%, the "Open EGR" reading % would not rise, Airflow would also not drop as EGR hits the high % ...............
??? "Red Herring" ??? ........... :dunno:

Thanks to you both, it is much appreciated I have more good ideas to check now before stripping the whole bloody lot down :big laugh:

Breather / PCV is fairly easy to get apart from where I'm at right now and would admit un-metered Air if faulty, will dabble there first :wink
I could even try blocking the Joint with Intake Pipe, and leave Crankcase to vent to Atmosphere and re look at Air Flow Data, see what effect that has :wink

?????????????

Cheers Dave

 

[Deplore]

Yes, that's the one. I'm not sure how the air intake tube is set up on the sprinter, but on the last OM642 car I serviced (GL320), the air intake was a y pipe shaped like so:

MB revised this fitting (orange seals) several times, with the latest revision requiring an entire new y-pipe as the latest orange seal is quite a bit thicker and requires a new bigger y-pipe. Same with the crankcase vent tube, they revised that too.

At least they did it on a GL320, pretty sure its the same story for the sprinter?

On the GL320, I had to change both because the CCV valve was stuck wide open, so all the oily film from the crankcase hit the orange seal around the tube and the turbo tube (two orange seals) until it eventually shrunk and induced a major vacuum leak while under boost, and leaking quite a bit oil out....so much that the last two mechanics quoted the customer a oil cooler seal replacement. It wasn't an leak from the oil cooler....I snaked a cheap endo down there, no leak at all.

 

[Dave2302]

Hi,

That looks like a V6 one, this is a OM646, a 4 Cylinder, with Dual Stage Turbo, but yeah, principle is the same without the Y :wink

Pic Below, PCV inlet can be seen on the Elbow before the narrow (Turbo) end.

Thanks for that :wink

Cheers Dave

 

[Dave2302]

Hi Again,

Damn !!

I'm even more confused now :frown

Reading back through this thread and also my clipboard notes, all the way from "round 1", this Van has flagged DAS Code 2355-002 EGR Rate Too High, after test driving it, as well as the "Air Flow Offset Drift" Code ................

Yet Data is saying EGR 6% and Specified Value should be 20% (on idle)

So, 6% of what ? ..... EGR Flow ? ..... Air Flow ? .... EGR Valve Angle ? .... EGR Motor Position ? .... Or 6% Closure From Fully Open ? ....
Of all the above only the last one would make any sense right now, but that just plain sounds "cock" !!

Starting to get annoyed with this thing now grrrrrrrrrrrr :banghead:

I think some of my confusion is due to SDS being translated from German to English by, (I suspect), a Translator with no Technical Knowledge of Motor Vehicles, I find a lot of stuff on WIS, EPC, SDS etc reads weird in English, do you guys find this too ?

This makes an interesting read, although it relates to CDI 3 not CDI 4 ME , might be worth checking if this one has Flaps though !!
It also says that Code means EGR Rate LOW, so maybe my comment re bastardized translations from German is correct, I've seen plenty of "Left" and "Right" gotten wrong in SDS .............

http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/index.php?threads/interesting-egr-p2355-002-fault.94252/

Cheers Dave

 

[pinkster]

Dave, What is the VIN for this van. It might help us with research.

 

[Dave2302]

Hi Guys,

Thanks Dean and Deplore :wink

VIN = WDB 906 633 2S 382562

OK, gotta pack up for today soon as I'm out playing an Engagement Party tonight, but here's more that I know now ..............

It has nowt to do with PCV Pipe or MAF to Turbo Pipe, have leak tested them both, and all good, also I pulled the PCV pipe out of MAF to Turbo Pipe, blocked the Stub with a bung and looked at EGR and Air Flow, still the same as yesterday, so that kinda rules out an Air Leak on the PCV Valve, would it affect it if it was blocked, may do, don't know, but a few bolts and I can have a look see next time :wink

See SDS pic below, erroneous Data is highlighted by SDS and 2355-002 EGR Code is back now :wink

I have had a quick look around the Intake, and it doesn't look like this Engine has Flaps, but I will get a better look next time :wink

I have left it idling to charge Battery as it was getting low with SDS plugged in half the day :laugh .............
I just and noticed that it has that same bobobobobobob sound as the E Class had when it's Turbo Actuators were not working correctly !!

Hmmmmmmm, I did the SDS Turbo Actuations yesterday, this Turbo has 2 Actuators and they both moved in and out when switched on / off, but when I push the one on top of turbo backwards the bobobobobobob sound stops, which the E Class did once it was fixed right !!

I'm wondering if the previous meddlers have put a pipe on the wrong way on the Actuator Vac Solenoid Valve or some weird internal fault on that Valve, or maybe reversed the Actuator Pipes

I will try and get some time on it over the weekend, a diagram of the Vac System would be a great help, like the one I found for E Class on WIS EPC, if anyone fancies looking it up for me before I get a chance :devil

I'm sure the other late model Sprinters I've worked on don't make that bobobobobobob sound when Idling ........

Hmmmmmmm may be on to something here :wink

Gotta go and set up the gear now,

Thanks for all your help,

Cheers Dave

 

[Deplore]

Could be defective actuators, they could be working properly when actuated but while at rest are not fully sealed, so they stay slightly open?

 

[pinkster]

Could you rig up a spring on the actuators for testing to see if it is the problem?

 

[Dave2302]

Hi Guys,

Yeah, I'll spend some time looking into these Actuators probably tomorrow, finished gig at 3am, hang over from hell DOH .............

But a good night :grin

I gotta go pick up the gear from the Village Hall in a while, then later I'll get on WIS and see if I can find a reference to exactly which way they should move, and when :wink
Will find Vac Circuit Diagram too, that was very helpful on the E Class, also worth me putting the "Mighty Vac" on it all to check it all out :wink

At least it is all easy to get at on this one :smile

Cheers for now,

Dave

 

[Dave2302]

Hi Guys,
@Deplore @pinkster

OK, I got a couple of hours on the Sprinter this morning, found out more of what is not the problem

Those Turbo Actuators, there are 2, Wastegate Actuator, and Boost Control Actuator.......... They are all connected up correctly and working fine, passing Actuation Tests, also tried manually holding them in opposite direction to check the effect that had on the Airflow ................

No dice :frown

Also, today, when idling, bobobobobobob sound not there Then it came briefly, then it went, then it came, etc etc :dunno:

So I started doing the EGR Test open / close routine, each time i did it, the intermittent bobobobobobob returned, but stopped after a few cycles ..............
I then wondered if the ECU is trying to calibrate itself to where the EGR is, but there is no procedure I can find in DAS, and once again, because I can't get any info on this (2 Stage Turbo) Engine, I'm just guessing.
My very helpful and knowledgeable mate in MB even admits him and his colleagues don't really understand them :frown

EGR is reading 6% on Idle before test, then when opened EGR reads 75% Air Flow drops as it should, to around 190 mg/Hub, close the EGR and it goes to 10% air flow is now less, but still not down to spec, sadly I can't get the EGR to vary on DAS Test, cos I reckon that if I could get it to sit at 20% then the Airflow would be right on the money.

So what am I sayin' :dunno: but just maybe this is EGR Related, but it still doesn't make sense, if it were blocked, surely I wouldn't be getting the 75% figure when open ????? Unless these % figures are measured from the EGR Positioner Motor, and not the Air Flow ????? Perhaps there is a wiring issue, but no related faults, or perhaps the CDI ECU is bad, if but maybe :dunno:

Mind, should it actually read more when open ????? Who knows, suppose I'm going to have to put my C Class on DAS and log the Data on that, hopefully should be similar, it's a OM646, but Single VGT seee if I can do that later today before I pack up ..............

I've now got a CL with burst ABC Pipe and Valve Issues, Rear Subframe Out job, and a Smart For Two Car with ABS and Engine MIL's on .............

So I've parked the Sprinter again, won't get back to to that bear in the next few days I doubt, depending on Parts Availability for the others :laugh

If you got any suggestions I'd be grateful, btw I've ordered a long USB Endoscope today.

Part of the problem here is lack of access to the MB Strategy Docs for CDI4 ECU, cos I simply don't know exactly what it should be doing and when it should be doing it :frown

On the upside, the Guy picked up his E Class, and rang me later to say he is well happy with it, "It hasn't driven this well in ages" he said :grin

Sprinter guy knows it's gonna be here for the foreseeable :big laugh:

He bought a Golf to teach his G/F to drive in, and is happy using that until Sprinter is done or rolled off over the cliffs at the rear of my house :big laugh:

Cheers for now,

Dave

 

[Dave2302]

Hi Guys,
@Deplore @pinkster @mrboca @Kajtek1

OK, so I'm waiting on parts for the CL and Smart For Two, so I did some more SDS research into the Sprinter today.
I'm going to continue this here :-

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w90...s/w901-906-sprinter/2934834-problem-2009-906-633-313cdi-om646.html#post17000642

I know I haven't had any replies on the Sprinter Forum, but this is E Class Forum and someone else on Sprinter Forum may see it and have some input :wink

Hopefully see you and anyone else following this thread over there now :wink

Cheers Dave