[MafiaDON]

Harnesses plural? Including the body mounted? That can't be right. There is no documented widespread failure of that harness on all 91-95 cars. The body mounted harness is the subject here - and that's the one you keep guaranteeing, ad nauseam, is going to fail on all 140s and there is no support for that. We ask once again you stop making that claim.

Just between you and me I think your vendors see you coming. If they need a new swimming pool they say "let's tell Stryker he needs a new paint job". If they need college tuition for their kids they say "Let's tell Stryker he needs a new body mounted harness", etc., etc. Because you wish to fall for it doesn't mean everyone must.

Hahahahahahaha! I nearly fell off my chair when I read this!

100 percent agreed with every word in that statement..

Stryker.. Stryke - your out!

 

[Stryker-1999 S600]

Sure, I may have a few brass plaques afixed to work bays that say 'Through the Largesse of Stryker this is possible', but that serves to improve the level of service I do get.

All of my cars DO run, and quite well, I might add.

So, don't bust a gut, Donnie Boy.

 

[MafiaDON]

Sure, I may have a few brass plaques afixed to work bays that say 'Through the Largesse of Stryker this is possible', but that serves to improve the level of service I do get.

All of my cars DO run, and quite well, I might add.

So, don't bust a gut, Donnie Boy.

Is that your closing statement comrade stryker?

Lame.. You did not provide any proof to back your claims nor did you prove anything fruitful from your misguided comments.

Yet they are comical. So keep talking, we all enjoy a good laugh at your expense

 

[Brett San Diego]

Holy Cow, Brett! Nobody's advocating replacing a perfectly good wiring harness!! My gosh, what sort of rube do you take me for?

Do you really want me to answer that. I won't swing at the slow pitches. lol

Alright, I don't know where you get that I'm suggesting replacing a perfectly good harness. My comment about it being better to not have to do the entire harness replacement even one time is directed at taking on the alternative of individual wire replacement versus entire harness replacement. IF (emphasis on if) the task of individual wire replacement is cost effective and is as reliable versus entire harness replacement, then it's worth doing just that amount of work and, therefore, never having to do entire harness replacement even once in the life of the car. Aboynton has explained it pretty clearly.

Hey, I'm on your side if it can be shown, for example, that there is degradation throughout this "body harness" that renders all of it compromised. If that's the case, I am happy to advise against attempting individual wire replacement. But, that just hasn't been shown, yet. You claim benefit of experience, but the fact of the matter is that you have zero experience with individual wire replacement in this harness, and you haven't yet shown the actual extent of degradation of this "body harness."

You have the truth sitting in a bag in your garage. If you refuse to give it the light of day for the community's benefit, then that's your prerogative, but that just leaves us with "your" truth, which is kind of like, eh...

Brett

 

[ch.1953]

Is that your closing statement comrade stryker?

Lame.. You did not provide any proof to back your claims nor did you prove anything fruitful from your misguided comments.

Yet they are comical. So keep talking, we all enjoy a good laugh at your expense

Come on Mafia Don, stop exaggerating...! :thumbsup:

I am part of this forum, and I am not laughing at him.:surrender:

I'm interested to see the video and to see if the body harnesses do fail like the other one, and I sense the validity is more so on the M120 motor, which of course is the only engne Stryke owns. As Haku said - nice collection.

I don't know why some posters give Stryke a hard time. I thought jealousy of success was a purely pre-Thatcherite British phenomenon...!

Maybe all this ribbing is just socialist envy of capitalist success "Comrade"!!!

Oh well, at least we are all friends here. On with the show - now where's that video!?...

 

[ch.1953]

Do you really want me to answer that. I won't swing at the slow pitches. lol

Alright, I don't know where you get that I'm suggesting replacing a perfectly good harness. My comment about it being better to not have to do the entire harness replacement even one time is directed at taking on the alternative of individual wire replacement versus entire harness replacement. IF (emphasis on if) the task of individual wire replacement is cost effective and is as reliable versus entire harness replacement, then it's worth doing just that amount of work and, therefore, never having to do entire harness replacement even once in the life of the car. Aboynton has explained it pretty clearly.

Hey, I'm on your side if it can be shown, for example, that there is degradation throughout this "body harness" that renders all of it compromised. If that's the case, I am happy to advise against attempting individual wire replacement. But, that just hasn't been shown, yet. You claim benefit of experience, but the fact of the matter is that you have zero experience with individual wire replacement in this harness, and you haven't yet shown the actual extent of degradation of this "body harness."

You have the truth sitting in a bag in your garage. If you refuse to give it the light of day for the community's benefit, then that's your prerogative, but that just leaves us with "your" truth, which is kind of like, eh...

Brett

This seems a nice post, balanced - no nasty comments, other than to tease subjective truth, which as Einstein began to explain is arguably all there is...

Mr. Quantum out!

 

[aboynton]

Mr. Boynton:
Allow me to soothe your concerns, not that your closing comments to your last posting were in any way directed at me, and be assured that I don't post to humiliate or deride or otherwise offend the readers.

Good to know. I know you would never do that.

I write of what I know, I share my experiences, I offer my thoughts and suggestions. I come from a place not offered too often: I'm not selling my car(s), I'm not selling parts, I'm not for hire and I've been a long-time fan of these 140's, as most of you already know.

I'd have to disagree. I think this probably describes 90% of the rest of us as well.

What many of you do not know is that I have done things the wrong way and I've done things the right way. You have the benefit of learning what I have done if you care to read what I post.

So, basically, your position is that you have tried to maintain your own cars and have failed ("wrong way"). Thus, you rely upon the dealer to service your cars ("right way"). Correct?

It's Friday afternoon and this thread is something of a bone to chew on. I participate in this Forum for my own enjoyment.

From what I have read, your knowledge of the W140, like many of us, is expansive in some areas and limited in others. You'd do well to share your knowledge on what you know and leave the actual, hands-on type knowledge to those know their way around these cars. What the dealer said they repaired and why they said they repaired it does not pass muster in my book. They simply do not have total credibility. Feel free to disagree, but I would guess that most people come here to gain hands-on knowledge that can be applied to their situation.

I say, unless you're a mechanic by vocation, do not become a mechanic by avocation. Or, if you don't make a living being a master mechanic, don't learn how to be one in your spare time, at least not on W140's.

May I ask why not? After all, we are not talking about an alloy-body W198. A 140 is not anything particularly special or complex. If you can read, follow directions, and have the proper equipment, why would you not want to do a job yourself if you are so inclined? When I choose to turn a wrench, it's not because I can't afford to pay an MB tech. I get the satisfaction of working with my hands and knowing that the work has been done to my standards. Saving a few bucks is icing on the cake.

When I see people trying to substitute their suspension systems with shocks, and there are those on this Forum who support that sort of degredation to their cars, I shake my head.

I can't understand why, but you are entitled to your opinion. The hydropneumatic suspension was not standard equipment for but 4 of the 11 140s produced. For those not equipped with this option, a standard suspension was good enough for MB engineers. If the result is acceptable to the owner, more power to them.

When I see people trying to fill holes in their leather seats with some sort of putty filler, I cringe. Yet there were those that supported THAT solution.

Agreed that filler is not the optimal solution to this issue. But if the owner doesn't want (or can't afford) to spend the money to reupholster their seats, why do you object to them doing something that improves the appearance, even if temporarily? They'll certainly feel better about it than leaving them cracked.

When I see people working on their w140's in their driveways or garages without the proper tools or lifts, and they sustain a catastrophic collapse of such primitive tools they do use, I shudder to think they can garner any sort of support from us here. But they do.

I know, the savages who work on their cars in their driveway are simply appalling. I have yet to see anyone support unsafe lifting behavior on these forums - ever. Even though it should be common sense, I have seen plenty of members reiterate, ad nauseum, that jack stands need to be properly placed in order to proceed safely. There is nothing wrong with using a floor jack and jack stands if done properly.

I believe this Forum is for those of us who are long-time holders of a terrific piece of automotive engineering, and for the benefit of those who think the same, my comments are offered.

Oh, I see. No condescension here You think that this forum should be reserved for "long-time holders" of the W140 like you. Like a "Lebensunwertes Leben" or maybe "separate but equal" doctrine. Let me ask you, what would be an acceptable timeframe for ownership to have the privilege of joining such a forum and who would decide? I am sure that most of us would agree that perhaps only people like you can properly appreciate what it truly means to be a 140 owner.

Well, unfortunately for you, you are going to have to start your own little forum to get your wish. Or, perhaps you could join a closed forum like the Ritter-Easley list that consists of a handful of enthusiasts who submit to the will of a couple of heavy-handed moderators. That's a real lively one.

The fundamental purpose of an open forum like this is for open exchange of ideas for those who wish to do their own maintenance or want to understand how it is performed. Your opinion is valuable if it is an informed one.

Choose to take advantage of what is arguably many hundreds of thousands of dollars in experience, or not.

Something tells me that you are probably not exaggerating about the amount of money. However, few of us would consider giving the local MB service department that kind of money to be an education in anything but perhaps what not to do.

BTW, how you coming on the proof of faulty wiring harnesses from the 80s?

 

[Stryker-1999 S600]

Mr. Boynton:

This is supposed to be fun. You do the heavy lifting of parsing each of my utterances. I'm flattered.

You disagree with me? No problem, I welcome your comments.

I DON'T have all the answers and never posed myself as the one with them. I DO have limited knowledge of the w140: I can speak only to the w140 with the m120 motor and usually share my experiences with just that configuration. And if I slip up and not mention this qualifier, one would only have to peer over to my avatar and list of posted cars to see what I refer to.

Sir, I respect your points of view, I am always willing to learn from those who know more, and clearly don't mind mixing it up with you guys.

Just keep Dandy Donny Boy in check!

 

[ch.1953]

This is getting weirder. Did Stryker invade Poland or something? Jeez.

I think not. Enzo Ferrari said something I've never forgotten:-

"The one thing they'll never forgive you for is success"

I've actually taken the time to get to know Stryker and he is nothing like the ways some of you guys interpret him. He's a gent. I just don't get it, or appreciate forum members laying into him. Truly, that's enough!

Stryker's position is straight forward:-

1. these are complex, but wonderful cars

2. he has high standards, and finds that dealers can sometimes do a better job for him than indies he has tried

3. the 140 is better than the 220

4. to maintain the high standards he likes in his cars costs real money - nothing wrong with that.

5. if you try working on them yourself you MAY run into trouble, and more so than with a simpler car like a W126

6. The M120 rocks. (as in good, not loosely mounted!)


In all seriousness, I'll add something, he probably has a slightly different point of view than many of us about how to maintain the 140 because he can afford to pursue the higher standards.

And I see nothing wrong with that either.

If you want to bash someone, bash the guy who played with his radio while he drove into my stationary car at 50mph and left me injured.

 

[aboynton]

To all concerned, I think it should suffice to say that we, as a group, will never see eye-to-eye on everything.

I am willing to admit that I do not have all of the answers, nor have I ever claimed to. I am also willing to admit that sometimes I take things far too seriously. Though my disposition has improved with age, I sometimes find it difficult to shake my idealistic temperament which can be counter-productive or even hurtful at times. Sometimes, I need to bite my lip and move on.

My intent was not to veer off course here in this thread. My apologies for carrying this thing away from v12 body harnesses, which is what we were supposed to be talking about here.

I am still sincerely interested in the disposition of the question at hand and will wait for the information to come in so that we may interpret it and talk about possible courses of action.

 

[mafl]

I maintain that a fair amount of Stryker's comments are, to put it mildy crap. I'm sure his workshop is delighted to see him swing by "I have this stone chip" and the only correct answer is "well, sounds like you need a bare-metal strip and a total paint job to fix this correctly".

Many of us have a set of cars, although we might not be bragging so much, and they are all in perfect condition.

The problem I have with his comments is :

a) they are unprooven
b) they take owners off into a wrong direction
c) the majority of MB workshops won't even touch W140 simply as their value is soo low that any major repair exceeds by far the value of the car
d) he does have 0 tolerenace to members doing their own repairs. I've seen cars leaving the holy ground of a MB dealership with much more probems then they had before.
c) his "standards" are ridicilous, I can assure you that there are a lot of cars around, in particular over here in Europe, which are at a much, much higher standard. Ohh, and you can drive here the cars the way they are supposed to be driven

But it's (mildy) undertaining. I admire however the guy who started the thread with a great description how he fixed his wiring harness. But I might be biased as my background is engineering.

The W140 is a moderatly complex car compared to todays car. If you have the right set of documentation (and that's not a subscription to alldata) but access to WIS, EPC plus the specific documention which is not available in electronic form (the electric drawings are 6 large A4 binders alone) :surrender:

 

[ch.1953]

To all concerned, I think it should suffice to say that we, as a group, will never see eye-to-eye on everything.

I am willing to admit that I do not have all of the answers, nor have I ever claimed to. I am also willing to admit that sometimes I take things far too seriously. Though my disposition has improved with age, I sometimes find it difficult to shake my idealistic temperament which can be counter-productive or even hurtful at times. Sometimes, I need to bite my lip and move on.

My intent was not to veer off course here in this thread. My apologies for carrying this thing away from v12 body harnesses, which is what we were supposed to be talking about here.

I am still sincerely interested in the disposition of the question at hand and will wait for the information to come in so that we may interpret it and talk about possible courses of action.

Great post, and certainly no need for apologies... I agree with you that we wish to get to the bottom of the question at hand.

We are all in this together, just trying to see if this harness issue is bigger than many think, and especially on the M120...

All the best!
Rich

 

[Stryker-1999 S600]

My parts warehouse:

 

[Stryker-1999 S600]

The wiring harness in question:

I apologize for not having a zoom lens or close-up to show more details, but there is ample evidence of harness insulation flaking off and bare wires showing in this collection of photos.

 

[donkshophorse]

thanks Stryker, and all of you for the feedback. This forum has been, and continues to be, an outstanding source of infomration and support. Long may it continue!

Once the snow clears off the motor I'll go check that harness again.

best wishes and happy motoring folks.

 

[aboynton]

The wiring harness in question:

I apologize for not having a zoom lens or close-up to show more details, but there is ample evidence of harness insulation flaking off and bare wires showing in this collection of photos.

Yeeck. The MAF wires are crispy.

 

[ackvig]

Stryker, I do envy your parts warehouse!


On another note....


I'm starting to call these kind of threads "Stryker-threads". (Which, admittedly, I love these kind of threads.) A "Stryker-thread" usual has the same generic format;

1- Someone says "should I work on my car myself?"
2- Stryker says "BY NO MEANS TOUCH THAT CAR! Only a white-gloved Benz Dealer Tech is
allowed! The seat is made with the best leather in the WORLD!" (my personal fave. LOL,
Stryke).
3- Other long and short time wrench turners jump in and tells the OP to give it a shot and
ignore Stryker.
4- Then Rich.Organic (the Enforcer) swoops in to Styrker's defense.
5- Rinse. Lather. Repeat. (Always REPEAT!)


And I love every minute of it.

A bit off-track here, but there is something I need to get off my chest. Perhaps it is just me, but sometimes I feel that there is an unspoken undertone exuded by some (not naming any names) in these forums that want people to have the impression that they are so "well-heeled" that they don't concern themselves with cost of repairs. If the dealer says that the only appropriate course of action is to do x, they do x and pay accordingly. It is then inferred that if one chooses to disregard the dealer's advice and choose an alternate repair method that is perfectly acceptable and does not follow dealer protocol, they are somehow cheap, poor, "half-assed", and a less worthy owner of the marque. This condescension is almost always unspoken, but it's easy to read between the lines. Forgive the rant, it's just been bothering me.

This has loooong been a more-than-pet peeve of mine here. (I may not come around much, but I am old school on this board). I call them "Benz Snobs", or "the Grey Poupon set". There has been a long line of them in the W140 forums since the days of member Ychadchad* and member ///S320* back in '04. (both of whom defected for Lexus LS; ugh for even more "refinement"). (Back then, ///S320 was the elitist and Ychadchad was his enforcer. Only the names seem to have changed all these years later.)

9 years later, will someone, (me?) remember the "Stryker-threads" and commemorate them, thusly?




*Shout out Ychadchad - we buried the hatchet back in '06.

*///S320 ("i dont really trust a "street" mechanic... Mechanics can tell only from their limited experiences.") can still eat a d*ck. That's my word.

 

[ch.1953]

Ha ha, many thanks Ackvig. I've been upgraded to "enforcer". Wow, but I hardly think so... I think I'm just appreciative that's all of the help I got from Stryker, DCA, Eric and The Andrew... as well as a few other forum members who very kindly helped me. So I just root for them when I can...

Here's something else you may not know, I'm at the other end of the career spectrum from Stryke, starting out with very little funds - and yet with his help I got a '99 140 coupe for almost nothing (literally) and has been worked on by a 20 year MB dealer experienced tech, who is now an indie, for just over $50 an hour.

So maybe I just hear Stryker differently than some, as in the dozen or so conversations I've had with him he's never told me you *must* go to the dealer. Quite the opposite and when I've said, heh I can't spare the cash for new window regs (for example) it's been fine... It's taken longer mind you, but that's the deal.

Now, he has said he feels the dealer gets unfairly maligned sometimes and that in this economy you can get good deals form the dealer often equivalent to the indies, and yet the dealer sometimes has much more experience. YMMV!

So while I'm grateful, I don't think I can rightfully accept the tag of enforcer, may be I just try to stick up for the underdogs!:thumbsup:

 

[ackvig]

Luca Brasi! Lol! S'all good.

 

[Brett San Diego]

The wiring harness in question:

I apologize for not having a zoom lens or close-up to show more details, but there is ample evidence of harness insulation flaking off and bare wires showing in this collection of photos.

Thanks for the start. It can be seen that the air mass meter wires, as already mentioned in this thread, are toast. But, I also see some bundles in the background that appear perfectly fine. We still do not know where these OK parts of the harness lie in the car. We still do not know the full extent of the degraded wires. But, it's a little step in the right direction.

Brett