[Mac]

Have been driving MB's for over 40 yrs. This is my 7th diesel. Initial opinion;this is the smoothest of them all (diesels). Many more gassers. I can't believe I'm really driving a 4 Banger. I have no issue with the 350 BlueTEC. Just happy with my 250. Great mpg is just the frosting on the cake.

True — loved the 3L diesel. Even so, I really like the idea of this 4-banger and the reality of it in actual operation makes me a believer. Whether it will be a success or not as the base drive train for US MLs is pretty much irrelevant given the engine's success in other applications and the production numbers involved --e.g., MB's 250 BTC four-cylinder engine together with all of its variants is supported by a world-class production volume. According the 2013 Lückert paper referenced above (interesting power curves shown there for the 250 CDI compared to the 220 and 200 CDI versions), the "OM 651 engine is applied in 20 vehicle categories, with a production volume of 760,000 engines per year. Eighteen engine hardware structure variants cover 1,014 functional variants with various emissions, drive and country versions."

Many write-ups over the years mention, for example, the engineering employed to eliminate engine vibration, as follows: "forged crankshaft with its eight counterweights turns supported by five bearings. The radii of the crankpins are rolled for high strength... To compensate for the free vibration moments which are inherent to four-cylinder inline engines there are two Lanchester balancer shafts... running in low-friction roller bearings rather than conventional plain bearings... A two-mass flywheel, featuring a primary flywheel mass fixed to the crankshaft that is connected to the secondary flywheel mass on the transmission by means of springs (technical term: spring-mass system), isolates the crankshaft's vibration stimuli from the drivetrain, thereby contributing to the engine's excellent smoothness."

The Lückert paper further elaborates as follows: "Due to the necessary all-wheel-drive capability, a high position for the balancer shafts was chosen, underneath the crankshaft and conrod module. Drive is provided via idler gears by the crankshaft, with contra-rotation of the left-hand shaft taking place via an additional gear level, which also drives the oil pump and high-pressure pump. To reduce noise, the gear drive is helically geared and has tensioned idler gears. The Lanchester shafts themselves are mounted on anti-friction bearings to minimize drive output, with two needle bearings and one grooved ball bearing."

 

[greasykid]

BAMA

Yes I was interested in the new C until I learned it was made in US. Apparently, the new GLKS are made in US as well....

Its a shame how these American companies\corporations and workers have no sense of pride. They ruined their own reputation, and now they are in the process of destroying MB.

I think Mercedes needs to keep a closer eye on its production facility in the US.

No GLK's in Bama

 

[greasykid]

250 BT Lag?

What turbo lag? The 250BT has 2 turbos. A small one to get started and a second larger one takes over from there. I have had the 250 gasser w/turbo. That had lag!

 

[Mac]

My review going on 400 miles (with what looks to be more than 200 additional miles left in the original tank) is that the ML250's BlueTEC's inline-4 diesel is loaded with character. As for performance it's more than a match for ML350's V-6 normally-aspirated (non-turbo) gas engine to which it compares. While the gas engine is more powerful — 302 compared to 200 HP — both engines are equally powerful at about 3500-3600 RPMs: at that RPM, the "350" reaches its max-torque of 273 lb-ft., whereas the "250" BTC ultimately comes down to that level off its peak of 369 lb-ft of torque beginning at 1600 RPM (making the diesel much more powerful than the gas engine up to that point). The BTC's twin-turbo technology eliminates turbo lag. I have not yet plumed the area under the tachometer where the BTC reaches its maximum HP at 3800 RPM as in normal driving, cruising occurs mostly around 2K or fewer RPMs while shifting under robust acceleration occurs at around 3K.

 

[2008R320]

My review going on 400 miles (with what looks to be more than 200 additional miles left in the original tank) is that the ML250's BlueTEC's inline-4 diesel is loaded with character. As for performance it's more than a match for ML350's V-6 normally-aspirated (non-turbo) gas engine to which it compares. While the gas engine is more powerful — 302 compared to 200 HP — both engines are equally powerful at about 3500-3600 RPMs: at that RPM, the "350" reaches its max-torque of 273 lb-ft., whereas the "250" BTC ultimately comes down to that level off its peak of 369 lb-ft of torque beginning at 1600 RPM (making the diesel much more powerful than the gas engine up to that point). The BTC's twin-turbo technology eliminates turbo lag. I have not yet plumed the area under the tachometer where the BTC reaches its maximum HP at 3800 RPM as in normal driving, cruising occurs mostly around 2K or fewer RPMs while shifting under robust acceleration occurs at around 3K.

When driving around the torque might make it feel faster than it is, the rush that the torque generates is fun, but short lived.
I agree that in daily driving the 250 will be excellent and most people will find it sufficient.
But a quick look on youtube searching 0-60 or 0-100 the difference becomes very noticeable, and yes I know that the 0-60 is not important in daily driving, but it also shows the power reserve in a way.
Several of the German comments are that the 250 is great for city driving, but on the autobahn it feel short in power. I know that the autobahn speed needs :devil are not needed in the same way here in US :angel

I'm still looking forward to see the long term reports of the ML and hope that it will be as enjoyable as it should be.

250BTW4

350W4

 

[Mac]

When driving around the torque might make it feel faster than it is, the rush that the torque generates is fun, but short lived... [/url]

Power is not really not the big issue: you can see VW Vanagons on the autobahn too. A V8 is more power yet and if you want a V6, the 3L V6 with twin turbos puts out more power than most normally aspirated V8s and gets a better, 'combined' mpg rating. For the ML, anyone revving their engines into the red zone because they demand more power should be getting a ML400.

Rather than thinking of the 250BTC's torque being "short-lived," potential ML buyers may want to consider that the 250BTC brings on as much and mostly a lot more torque from 1300 RPM and on, than the maximum amount of torque the 3.5L (gas) is only capable of mustering up at 3500 RPM. Both engines are equally powerful at that point (3500 RPMs) and the 250BTC is much more powerful up to that point, which is most driving anyway (see attachement).

The 3.5L (gas) is a much more powerful 302 HP (compared to the BTC's 240) but that capability is by taking the engine up to 6500 RPM; and, its 273 lb-ft. of torque (370 Nm) is at 3500-5250 RPM, a range of 1750 RPMs. By comparison, the 250BTC's torque curve shows that 370 Nm falls between ~1300 to 3600 RPMs, a range of 2300 RPMs.

Acceleration requires more power and the "350" (gas) has that. Accordingly, it also has a lot better 0-60 mph performance. But, there's no free lunch — e.g., the 350 gets 22 mpg fwy (for the 4MATIC) versus the 250BTC's 29.

In any event, the 3.5L (gas) isn't really all that fast. It's acceleration of 0-60 mph in 7.5 seconds doesn't seriously challenge my old (less powerful) ML500.

The 250BTC is a great cruiser: I got >30 mpg coming to work today (doing >71 on the fwy). I think an interesting metric for the inline-4 diesel is 325 lb-ft. (441 Nm) of torque: that's what my old MB ML500 twin-spark V8 was capable of churning out @2700-4250 RPM. The ML's "250" biturbo diesel produces 450 Nm (332 lb-ft.) of torque from 1400 - 2500 RPM.




*****
Update, Fyi— The 1998 ML320 (father of all ML's) was powered by a 3.2-liter V-6 engine making 215 horsepower and 233 lbs./ft. of torque and accelerated from 0-60 mph in 9 seconds. The fuel economy of this "powerful" LEV engine was a "best-in-class" at 17 mpg city/21 mpg highway.

 

[SC22]

Lol i had time to make myself a sandwich while watching that first vid. ?


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[Mac]

Lol i had time to make myself a sandwich while watching that first vid. ��


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Okay sure but, at about here at less than 2K RPM (see attachment)...

At some point, with normally aspirated gas engines, we're paying for power we don't need, all while sacrificing more spirited performance in normal driving situations. MB's current line-up with the 250 and the 400 show we've reached that point. I can't imagine why MB would want to carry the 350 forward to 2016 (unless it's cheaper for MB and the buying public really doesn't care). Fuel costs aside, emissions standards combined with turbo-technology have simply left it behind.

 

[SC22]

I agree with u that the 350 gasser' time is limited with the 250 and 400 here....doesn't make sense for MB to keep it around. I have a sneaky suspicion that we haven't seen the last of the 550 as well...I'm betting it comes back as part of the "AMG Sport Line". Below a full blown AMG, but more performance oriented than the 400 can muster. I mean, the 4.6litre bi turbo direct injection motor isn't that old is it? I just can't see MB leaving that segment uncontested against the v8 X5.


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[Mac]

I agree with u that the 350 gasser' time is limited with the 250 and 400 here....doesn't make sense for MB to keep it around. I have a sneaky suspicion that we haven't seen the last of the 550 as well...I'm betting it comes back as part of the "AMG Sport Line". Below a full blown AMG, but more performance oriented than the 400 can muster. I mean, the 4.6litre bi turbo direct injection motor isn't that old is it? I just can't see MB leaving that segment uncontested against the v8 X5.


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The ML500 is the most 'big block' high performance I've ever owned. For me it was like having a German-made mustang engine. But, the 3L biturbo gas engine shuts it down. Still, I'd take the 3L diesel over the gasser. And now, I'd really have to consider the 2.15L BTC biturbo even for the 3L turbo.

 

[Mac]

... I just can't see MB leaving that segment uncontested against the v8 X5.
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The newly designed 2016 Q7 is already being marketed to the Audi faithful. Initially it will have just 2 engine options, both 3Ls: a biturbo gas and a turbo diesel. No V8s, although The a Q7 is a bigger SUV than the ML (but maybe not super-heavy as they talk about a liberal use of aluminum to keep the weight down). The article about it seems to have messed up their "mpg" estimates. Later engine options will include inline-4 gas engines.


"In Europe, the Q7 will launch with two V6 engines. The first is a 3.0-liter TDI turbodiesel unit rated at 272 horsepower and 442 lb-ft. of torque. It sends the Q7 from zero to 62 mph in 6.3 seconds while allowing it to return 41 mpg in a mixed European cycle.

The second available engine is a 3.0-liter gas-burning TFSI that makes 333 horsepower and 324 lb-ft. of torque. The TFSI lowers the 0-60 time to 6.1 seconds and returns 30 mpg in a mixed cycle. Properly equipped, the Q7 can tow over 7,700 pounds.

Additional engines will follow later in the production run. Audi has confirmed the availability of a de-tuned TDI rated at 218 horsepower and 368 lb-ft. of torque and 2.0-liter four-cylinder TFSI that makes 252 ponies and 272 lb-ft. of twist. Market-specific details are not available yet but it is safe to assume the U.S.-spec Q7 will be offered with the two TFSI units and the 272-horsepower TDI."


Read more: Detroit preview: 2016 Audi Q7 | New and Used Car Reviews, Research & Automotive-Industry News & LeftLaneNews

 

[DUTCH]

The newly designed 2016 Q7 is already being marketed to the Audi faithful.

Marketed, yes; but not yet available for sale, much less delivery.

 

[SC22]

Looks like a wagon, but I'll reserve judgement till I see it in person. The new Volvo XC90 though looks killer....


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[DUTCH]

Looks like a wagon, but I'll reserve judgement till I see it in person.

Just one of the reasons I have a 2015 on order.

 

[Mac]

Exceeding expectations...

Interesting performance for the 'little diesel' e.g., > 30mpg on over 50 miles (see pic):

 

[Jhunmapa]

I have a 2015 ml 250 blutec with 145000 miles and I was able to increase the freeway milieage from 31 up to 39.6. Has anyone experience this?