[bobterry99]

I never tire of participating in these threads.

That is why I believe the hand built R129 cars...

R129 production was highly automated. To find an SL that was hand-built you have to go back to at least 1963.

It is so powerful it has a higher RPM and Torque rating the the R230 so it is a better car.

If your car had a continuously-variable transmission that allowed the engine to accelerate at only its horsepower peak, then you might have a point. But because these engines shift through a 5-speed gearbox their engines operate over a range of RPMs, and that is where the M113-powered SLs gain an advantage. Note M-B quotes a 0-60 time of 6.4 seconds for a '96 car, and 6.1 seconds for a 2002 car.

The R129 especially the 98 is by far the better car.

Clearly either (a) you aren't familiar with the R230, or (b) your statement can be attributed to personal taste -- afterall, I suppose there are some people who believe Katy Perry is a greater musical talent than Jimmy Page.

If you value handling and a refined, comfortable ride the R230 is a considerably better car to operate. Three letters tell the tale: ABC (Active Body Control). This advantage comes at a cost, however. Suspension components are wear-and-tear items that do not last the life of the car, and renewing an ABC suspension is much more expensive than a conventional one.

Finally, I am reluctant to state that one R129 model year is better than another. But among the '96 and later V-8 cars the edge has to go to the '99-'02 years, since their 722.6 transmission is more robust than earlier versions.

 

[bobterry99]

As to which was "better" - the R230 is a more complex car.

In some ways the 230 is simpler. Notably, wiring is reduced because all of the controllers are networked and share information. Troubleshooting problems is much, much easier: with Star Diagnosis the status of most electrical signals can be seen from a PC screen. If you wonder how significant that is try diagnosing a non-working steering wheel adjustment switch on a 129 and then perform the same task on a 230.

As far as automation look at 53 seconds...

Notice at the 1:10 mark of that video an Automated Guided Vehicle (AGV) (!) has brought the body from another area of the factory. In that other area the body was assembled and welded together by industrial robots in a process that was mostly if not completely automated.

 

[bobterry99]

We speak as though automation is bad - but if set up properly certainly more precise than a craftsman's hands...

To be clear, "we" does not include me. I made a career in factory automation.

Still, I heard of someone paying $8,000 to fix their R230 air suspension.

If I have a 129 with roof hydraulic cylinders leaking and take the car to the dealer I may have a $6000 repair bill. But most of us know an independent can cut that down to under $2000 by using Tophydraulics, and a DIYer can get the cost down to $16 with an o-ring kit from eBay. Similarly, an ABC repair can be hideously expensive, but for all major repairs there are avenues available that dramatically cut costs.

Finally, ABC is not air suspension -- it's hydraulic. It's also an "active" system, and a decade ago it was the only active suspension in production -- perhaps it still is.

 

[bobterry99]

On the R230 it became so complex that I'm not sure things like a major fault in the suspension is in the realm of the DIYer...

With a $300 Star Diagnosis (SDS) system a 230 is far more DIY friendly than a 129 and requires less skill. Voltages and currents of electronic devices can be determined simply by reading their values off of a PC screen; on a 129 you have to have a multimeter or similar instrument, and sometimes gaining access to test points is extremely difficult and time-consuming. For each major system SDS has guided tests that provide step-by-step procedures for testing components. In some cases the test steps are automated, and the software executes them sequentially with no intervention at all from the user (the test of the ABC accumulators, for example).

Even with my recent transmission r/r...the tech at the dealer had to drive the car with proprietory software and "train" the transmission. What he was setting through the software I haven't a clue.

If interested in knowing go to this page and scroll down towards the bottom to "Transmission adaption".

 

[bobterry99]

Not reached the Steering bit as yet, but my old school mech says the motor could be jammed and he may need to pull out the rack from the tearing side and service the motor.

This seems to describe electric steering. The R230 and R129 cars that I am familiar with do not have this.

 

[bobterry99]

Just to clarify my electric steering adjust is not working.

That should have been obvious to me, particularly in the context of this thread mentioning a hypothetical problem with steering adjustment.

I would check the fuse that supplies power to the steering wheel adjustment (MSC) controller. It may be fuse #4 in the main fuse box. If that is okay, then access the module in the right-seat footwell and check the inputs from the control switch at the module connector. If those are good, then at the connector I would apply power to the adjustment motors to see if they operate. If you or your mechanic need further details, reply back here or on a new thread.

 

[bobterry99]

I'm doing that with my 300CE24. Why? Because it's a car from MB's "quality" era.

Yours is a fine car, and nothing I write in this post can change that. Nor is it meant to.

The R129 was introduced in 1989 having been considerably delayed. One reason is M-B had experienced quality issues with the W124 and W201 cars, and management did not want those repeated.

A c. 1985 issue of Autocar magazine chronicled the issues Mercedes was having with quality. It mentioned how German taxi cab drivers were unhappy with their cars and had blocked the entrance to the factory in Unterturkheim in protest (many or most of the taxis in that country were M-Bs). As a consequence of a devastating labor strike in '84 the workweek at Mercedes was shortened, and the article cited that in conjunction with expanding production as a cause of the drop in quality.

The perception of quality is nebulous and can vary from person to person. I don't identify a "quality era" at Mercedes, but I note characteristics of the 1950s and '60s cars that are popularly associated with quality. With the introduction of the "New Generation" models in '68 (W114/W115) there was a marked difference in materials used and assembly techniques: plastics substituted for brass and aluminum; clips and snaps used to secure components instead of screws.