Well he is not the first SM to hand out bad info and probably won't be the last.
Just get some of the MB 85w90 and do the job or have an indy do it. It takes
about a 30-40 minutes for the whole job.
When did you last do the transfer case fluid? If more than 40k miles you might as well
get that handled at this point also.

Based on the weight of these trucks I would stick to the MB specs for all driveline fluids.

 

Well he is not the first SM to hand out bad info and probably won't be the last.

It turns out that you were right !

I decided to call a big MB dealer in a different city and also got to talk to their Service Manager:

- They also use 80W-90 for their customers' ML
- He said the synthetic 75W-90 is OK, and should work better than conventional 80W-90 in severe condition and last longer.

So I guess my take is this:

- If I just do what other 50% ML owners do and simply bring my ML to the dealership for differential fluid change, without bothering spending hours reading through numerous forums, I will end up having 80W-90 in my diff with their warranty approval.
- So if I were to DIY, I will just use what they use.
- just my own $0.02

 

Glad you got confirmation.

It is a an easy DIY. Just make sure the truck is level. Also having a bottle
pump like this can make life a lot easier on these tasks.

Advance auto sells one that fits small and wide top bottles.

 

I have used both, 85w90 is very hard to find and they are non synthetic. I ended up using 80w90 and the most recent diff oil change I used redline 75w90. It runs great.

 

The Redline is good stuff. I use their Shockproof line in the track car. The gears look new
with lots of hours of track time on them.

 

Gear oils have different API ratings, GL3, GL4 GL5 for example.

The required specs in this instance are a GL5 for the diff. The 85w90 is GL5 spec and so are some synthetic 75w90 (such as Castrol Syntrax Universal)

The 75w90 viscosity is ok to use as long at it is GL5 specs - in fact the 75w rating will give better fuel efficiency than the 85w, that is why more manufacturers are moving to this viscosity these days as it helps to boost the MPG figures (very slightly)

Hope this helps folks...........

 

I asked about this over at BobIsTheOilGuy and learned something interesting. (FYI, it is a great website for oil geeks.)

When the W163 was originally in production, the SAE J306 standard for oil viscosities was from 1998 and there were some issues with it. In particular, the range for SAE 90 was very wide, 13.5 to <24 (cSt @ 100C). In 2005, the SAE 90 range was split into two: 90 (13.5 to <18.5) and 110 (18.5 to < 24). This means that using currently available oils, SAE 110 base covers the viscosity that used to be in the upper half of the old range for SAE 90. If you purchase SAE 90 gear oil today, on average, it will be thinner than SAE 90 from pre-2005.

Also, multi-grade synthetic oils such as 75W-90 are based on the higher viscosity (i.e., 90), whereas conventional oils are based on the lower viscosity (i.e., 75W) and use viscosity improvers to increase the viscosity so the oil does get not too thin at high temperature. When conventional oils age, they tend to get thinner because the viscosity improvers break down. This may explain why MB used 85W-90, whereas such oils are not typically available today. They probably did not want want to risk damage from the oil thinning with age, but they did not want to specify the next higher available viscosity (140) because it was thicker than necessary.

For this reason, I will be using Amsoil 75W-110 (which with 20.4 cSt @ 100C is closer to the middle of the original range for SAE 90 than 75W-90) when I change the oil in the diffs. Before someone posts that this oil is not compatible with the factory recommendation, that is not the case. Current 75W-110 oils are not thicker than the original range for SAE 90. Also, 75W-110 never gets thinner than SAE 110 when it is hot and it never gets thicker than SAE 75W when it is cold (i.e., it never gets thinner than SAE 110). Being SAE 75W, it will lubricate the diffs better when cold because it will not be as thick as the factory recommended 85W.

Your mileage may vary...

 

Sorry for bring this old thread back but I have started another thread over a week ago but don't have any responds

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w163-m-class/1664446-differential-oil-75w90.html

and would like to know did you end up using Amsoil 75w110 for your differential and any feedback on it?

Thank you very much in advance!

 

No need to go higher than the 85w90. You really do not want a 110 weight in the winters of Canada
even as good a synthetic as AMS Oil is. It will drag down efficiency and won't thin enough to protect
the gears. The MB fluid is good stuff.
Bring it down to 85w90.

 

Noodles, re-read my post. The 110 weight has the same viscosity as the original factory oil.

 

Do you have a part# for that 85W90? thanks
Nevermind I found it on Autohaus in the miscellaneous section

 

I am not trying to start anything over this. Their website even shows the difference in viscosity over different temp ranges.
75w90 PDF file and 75w110 PDF files from their site.
The 110 stays is and stays on a thicker viscosity curve in all temp ranges.

Where did AMS Oil say it is the same viscosity? the 110 and the 90 are the viscosity ratings.
If they did not label them as such based on the API standards then why would they have a different viscosity rating as shown in their own data?

I know that AMS Oil makes great products, but I am of the thought that staying within the range
the vehicle was designed for is always the best.

 

No problem, I'm not trying to start anything, either. When I was originally looking into this, I asked AMS and they provided the explanation that's in my post. I also downloaded the original and current SAE specifications to check for myself. The point is that current 75W110 lubricants are well within the viscosity range of the SAE 90 specification that was in effect at the time MB specified 85W90, so it's not outside the specification that MB used when they originally recommended 85W90. The original specification for SAE 90 covered the range that is currently covered by SAE 90 (lower half) and SAE 110 (upper half). The AMS 75W110 sits right in the middle of the current SAE 110 specification. It's a good choice because it never gets thicker than SAE 75 in cold temperatures, and it never gets thinner than SAE 110 in hot temperatures. Current SAE 90 lubricants are on average thinner than the MB 85W90. If anything, I would rather choose a lubricant that's on the high side, but within the specified range, than a lubricant that's on the low side, but that's up to everyone to decide for themselves.

 

Ahh, I see where you are coming from. That makes sense.

Also being in Canada you would know how well it works in the cold and I am sure if it was not performing
or caused fuel efficiency loss you would not have kept in the truck.

 

I live in Vancouver, where it's warmer in the winter than Wisconsin, assuming that's where you're from.

 

Do you guys use the exact same oil for both the front and rear differential?
I see that the MB spec says the front gets SAE90, while the rear gets SAE90 or 85W90. If the same, then why don't they just state that?
thanks

 

Where did you get that info from? Take a look at page 10 of the attachment. It shows 85W90 for both front and rear diffs of the W163. I used the same 75w110 in both diffs.

 

I am in Wisconsin. Closer to the lake the worst month is Jan where the daily average is -1º C.
All other months average above 0º C.

We even get the wild temperature swings like Fraser Valley does especially in spring and fall.

 

Have some fun today and go to a auto parts store and tell the staff you need "Hypoid" gear oil (most gear oil is "hypoid")... the different responses I got at different parts stores is quit amusing

 

Well, just finished changing out fluids on my 99 ML430. Transfer case was a breeze and I went with the Mobil 1 synthetic ATF.

Differentials were a different story (no pun intended!). Those 10mm hex bolts were TIGHT. I was using a 3/8 rachet with a 4 inch extension on the rear fill plug and a 2 inch extension on the front fill plug. No extensions needed for the drain plugs.

I had good purchase and leverage but all those babies were tough ! Gave them all a shot of WD40 and looked around for a pipe to extend the rachet. No joy. Then searched around for a 3/8 to 1/2 adapter so I could pull out my big-boy rachet. No joy.....

Lesson learned......pick up both of these items for future projects !

I know there are a couple of options for fluid selection. I went with the Mobil 1 75W-90 synthetic. Hope I made the right choice. I am a HUGE fan of the Mobil 1 products...320,000 miles on ML with Mobil 1 0W40 engine oil from the beginning.

Thanks for all the previous posts that sorted out the procedure, even if it is relatively simple. Particular kudos to the poster who insisted on removing the FILL plug first, before you drain the fluid and possibly have issues with the FILL plug after draining every last drop....duhhhhh !!!!.

Not sure what the torque values are for these differential plugs, but I was beginning to question if the bolts were left-handed threads !! I do not remember ever having the differentials serviced, but if I looked back on my receipts, I would probably see where I had the fluids changed. Mechanic must have used an airtool to tighten !

After looking around for tools I didn't have, and after a few beers....I gave it another try and managed to get them all loosened. Not sure what helped the most the WD40 or the brewskis !!

 

.

Thanks for all the previous posts that sorted out the procedure, even if it is relatively simple. Particular kudos to the poster who insisted on removing the FILL plug first, before you drain the fluid and possibly have issues with the FILL plug after draining every last drop....duhhhhh !!!!.

You only make that mistake once before learning!!

After looking around for tools I didn't have, and after a few beers....I gave it another try and managed to get them all loosened. Not sure what helped the most the WD40 or the brewskis !!

While brewskis never hurt, try PB Blaster instead of WD 40 and let soak for at least 30 minutes......

M1 synth products are very good, no worries.

Regards,
Jerry

 

I was at Canadian tire today looking for differential oil. I was supprised to see that Motomaster has a full synthetic 75w90 gear oil. On the back it says that it can be used instead of a 80-85w90. It dose not say that it is a synthetic blend,,,,,It says synthetic. If i remember correctly, it was $14. I know Shell makes the Motomaster oil. What do all you Canadian ML owners think.

 

Why do you want to use Crapitire fluid when for the same money you can get Redline or Mobil1?

 

I agree with you 100%. I was just wondering if any one has used the stuff.

 

more about the fluid

OK, I know this is boring everyone to death, but as far as diff fluid goes: I changed it a couple of months ago, used Castrol 75w90 I think. Then I read all about using only MB-fluid or Fuchs Titan or else there will be dire consequences. MB diff dluid is like 3 times more expensive at least, Fuch's Titan is also pricey and not readily available.
So do most people use commonly available fluids like Mobil1, Castrol ect.? Should I run out now and dump my Castrol 75w90 or is this going to be pretty much OK? I'm in Russia right now, temps are about 0 Centigrade/32 degrees at the wormest and often a few degrees bellow that; pretty soon it might get A LOT colder. I do about 50/50 city and highway driving.

 

Dont waist your money and time changing it. Trust me its not going to blow up. Castol is fine. If you listen to what every one here says you will go broke fast. I have a 13 year old ML 430. I never changed the diff or the transmission. I use MotoMaster synthetic gear oil. I use Valvoline Max AT oil. Do you think that Mercedes Benz has there own oil refinery ? ( NO!!!! ) Shell or some othe big name makes there products. If you people want to spend $200 on MB AT oil go ahead. I can buy the exact same Shell product or Valvoline product for $25.

 

Everyone is aware that M/B, or any other car maker, does not produce their own oil. But what is important is what is recommended for a specific vehicle.

There are so many recommendations floating around this forum as what type of fluid to use in different drivetrain components. But how would you feel if your recommendation did not work for another member and the result was a damaged component?

You being sorry or lack thereof doesn't pay that member for the purchase and replacement of that component. Just read his post about him not using the correct weight and brand oil that he should have used.

Always remember, what works for you might be catastrophic for another.

 

Just like it is recomended we use 0w-40 engine oil. Its not going to kill the car if we use 5w-30 instead. And the Valvoline Max Life AT oil. I never had a problem using it. You could recomend the corect fluid and the guys car could break the day after it is changed. We all have are own opinion here. Im just voiceing mine, like you are yours.

 

I think you are missing the point 43sqd is making. Engineers tested certain lubricants, extensively, to make sure they held up to expectations and to make sure they did not cause any harm to your components. Some of these lubricants were not tested because they had found the lubricants they needed to fulfill the need. Some recommendations from engineers come from experience that compounds from decades past. Mercedes has upgraded their 722.6 fluid recommendation at least 3 times. There's a variety of reasons for modifying these recommendations. If you recommend someone use unapproved fluids, you're taking a chance it could be a fluid Mercedes DID test and didn't hold up to expectations OR it wasn't tested at all. Using unapproved fluids is your choice but when it comes to a RECOMMENDATION from a professional like 43sqd, it's always better to be safe now than sorry later.

 

Also, some oils may work better in certain environments. Maybe a thicker oil might work well in the places with generally a hot temp but not that well in the places that seem like winter yearound.

 

Not to hijack the thread but I have a question regarding spec fluid.

I used to run 229.3 spec oil on the ML but since my E uses 229.5 spec oil and it so much convenient for me to buy one oil for both vehicles, is the Mobil 0W40 go to use on these older truck?

Its currently has about 206k km ( about 122k miles ) and running strong.

Also, I have always been using 236.10 spec fluid for the tranny replace every 50k km and should I go for the newer 236.14 spec fluid since I have three cases of shell ATF134 on hand?

Not trying to stir the pot or anything but I would listen to 43sqd's advice from all the readings on this forum especially the info he generously offered from the past.

 

You will be fine with the Shell ATF 134.

The 0w40 should be just fine year round for the Canadian climate.

 

Thanks Noodles,

I still have few jugs of Castrol Syntec 5W40 (229.3) which I will using during hot summer months especially when I am towing otherwise pretty much 0W40 all year long.

Cheers

 

If Mercedes Benz recomends you jump from the 4 floor. Are you going to do it?

 

If you trudge down to Wallyworld wearing a ski mask to hide your shame of buying it there you can get the Castrol Syntec 5w40 in the 5L and larger sizes. I think they had the 1L's but never looked for those. The price is pretty good.

Shell makes/re-brands all of Comedian tires stuff so that's what is in the motomaster stuff. I just put away my notes but had tracked down a bunch of re-branded stuff that you can get much better prices at all sorts of places. If you are fortunate to have a Shell distributor in town they will order in all sorts of goodies for you.

It takes a bit of sleuthing to find it but eventually you can find all of your fluids in a MB approved "container". I just did my diffs and found the same stuff the stealer uses but for $17 a litre verses $63 a litre... Fortunately for me my parts guy at the dealer has been great source of info on tracking things down (as well as info from this forum).

 

Out of all the brands you listed. The Castrol will likely be the cheepest ( And just as good quality) make sure it is the synthetic one.