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You couldn't simply have written "...make [the] repair...", could ya? You had to use *ffect!
Ah.... the beauty of edit.

Made a couple of members here part of the shadow boxing team.

Unintentional, I assure you.
 
Discussion starter · #48 · (Edited)
Hello again.. have some final questions...

Have mesured the system pressure and it was 5.5 Bar, exactly as it should be.

Mesured the signal from the oxygene sensor while driving and it seems like it works, it was alternating between 0.3V to 0.9 and it looks like it's ok...
But I dont get any stable readings from the duty cycle mesure...

Can anyone confirm which number on the diagnostic plug I should use.

I mesured between number 3 (white cable coming from ECU) and earth, and the value was alternating to much to get a decent reading.

I want to adjust the mixture to a 50% duty cycle by using the mixture-screw on the fuel-distributor and I read that sometimes the mixture is to high for the oxygene sensor to handle. As soon as they leening the mixture the valve starts working so... Can I ruin anything if I turn the adjustment counter clockwise to lean the mixture until the motor stops (or frequency valve starts working) then adjust it clockwise until it runs normally?
 
Hello again.. have some final questions...

Have mesured the system pressure and it was 5.5 Bar, exactly as it should be.

Mesured the signal from the oxygene sensor while driving and it seems like it works, it was alternating between 0.3V to 0.9 and it looks like it's ok...
But I dont get any stable readings from the duty cycle mesure...

Can anyone confirm which number on the diagnostic plug I should use.

I mesured between number 3 (white cable coming from ECU) and earth, and the value was alternating to much to get a decent reading.

I want to adjust the mixture to a 50% duty cycle by using the mixture-screw on the fuel-distributor and I read that sometimes the mixture is to high for the oxygene sensor to handle. As soon as they leening the mixture the valve starts working so... Can I ruin anything if I turn the adjustment counter clockwise to lean the mixture until the motor stops (or frequency valve starts working) then adjust it clockwise until it runs normally?
#3....45%-50%.
 
Discussion starter · #50 ·
Finally solved it...

Since I didn't get a proper signal for the duty cycle, I built a voltage regulator handling 0 - 1V, which I connected instead of the oxygen sensor, changed the signal between 0.2 - 0.9V and the frequency valve started to tick as it should... So the oxygen sensor's ECU was ok...

Noticed that oxygen sensor signal was almost constantly 0.9V when the car was idling ...
Adjusted the fuel mixture screw, almost a full turn counter clockwise and then the valve began ticking, the problem was apparently that the mixture was so fat that oxygen sensors circuit was out of range.

Now I can clearly see both the duty cycle and hear the valve working, can hear the idle speed following the duty cycle a little but I will adjust the mixture better with a CO meter, hopefully I can fine tune a little bit more then.

Thanks for the support, always nice to have some feedback... Feel like a K-Jet expert now ...
 
Finally solved it...

Since I didn't get a proper signal for the duty cycle, I built a voltage regulator handling 0 - 1V, which I connected instead of the oxygen sensor, changed the signal between 0.2 - 0.9V and the frequency valve started to tick as it should... So the oxygen sensor's ECU was ok...

Noticed that oxygen sensor signal was almost constantly 0.9V when the car was idling ...
Adjusted the fuel mixture screw, almost a full turn counter clockwise and then the valve began ticking, the problem was apparently that the mixture was so fat that oxygen sensors circuit was out of range.

Now I can clearly see both the duty cycle and hear the valve working, can hear the idle speed following the duty cycle a little but I will adjust the mixture better with a CO meter, hopefully I can fine tune a little bit more then.

Thanks for the support, always nice to have some feedback... Feel like a K-Jet expert now ...
Good wrench, Pex.

I'm sorry I couldn't be more help.
That Lambda system is alien to me.


Condense this thread into a new troubleshooting thread with all your steps and we'll get it into the EGv107.

Great work.

Post some pics. I love pics.
 
Discussion starter · #53 · (Edited)
Troubleshooting Oxygen Sensor (Lambda) circuit on a 280SL -85…

Moderator's edit: If you have arrived at this post by following the link in the EGv107 sticky, be advised that this post is a distillation by Pex of everything (on topic) that went on in the thread previously. Click on Pex's link below or the Page 1 link in the upper right at the top of this page if you'd like to view the thread from the beginning.

Have done a little troubleshooting guide, feel free to edit the text since my grammar could have been better...

Troubleshooting Oxygen Sensor ( Lambda) circuit on a 280SL -85…

Problem:
The spark plugs are totally dry, black, sooty, poor mileage and when the car idles the ground behind the exhaust pipes get fouled and black.
This is probably caused by too rich fuel mixture. Since this is a common WUR-problem I first started troubleshooting the WUR then the Lambda circuit.

This is how I troubleshoot it, text fetched from original thread with some comments.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r-c107-sl-slc-class/1545859-finally-made-my-decision.html

Correct system fuel pressure due to manual
System Pressure: 5.2 bar

Control pressure from WUR at outside temperature (temperature in degrees Celsius).
Cold motor
10 degrees -> 0.7 - 1.1bar
20 degrees -> 1.0 – 1.4bar
30 degrees -> 1.4 – 1.7 bar
40 degrees -> 1.7 – 2.1bar

Warm motor
3.5 – 4.0bar

Troubleshooting the WUR (Warm Up Regulator).

I have checked the air filter and it's ok (an open one)...
The timing when idling was 5 degrees but I will check it at the right rpm (due to the label in car) this weekend when I have some help.
Checked the timing... 25 degrees / 3500rpm, was ok due to label in car...
I've cleaned all contacts and checked the vacuum.
I have also disconnected the start injector's termo switch so I can be sure that this isn't open all the time.
Connected a 12V lamp-bulb on the start injector's plug and it lit for 2-3 seconds which is ok.
I will do a quick and dirty fix... I will squeeze the Frequency valves rubber fuel line so that no fuel can go that way, this way should be able to exclude any impact from the lambda system, then start checking the fuel pressure to see if it can be the WUR.

Manage to borrow a fuel pressure gauge and measured the control pressure from the WUR...
Cold motor: 1 bar
"Half warm" motor: Pressure started to rise and stopped at 2 bar
Very Hot motor: still 2 bar???

Comment: Something is obviously wrong with the WUR…

Measured the electrical connection for the WUR’s warm up element and there were no 12V.
Removed the rubber-hose which protect the contacts and there was the problem, the +12V cord was broke, fixed the cable and measured the pressure again and now it went up to 4 bar which is correct due to the book I borrowed from the local Bosch firm.
It's a little strange that the motor didn't manage to warm the WUR enough to raise the pressure since some say "disconnect cable when testing WUR", seems like my WUR need some help from the warm-up element to work properly. It could still be something wrong with it but at least I know what’s wrong now...
Have measured the system pressure and it was 5.5bar, exactly as it should be.

Comment: Took the car for I ride and what a difference, now I see how quick and fast the car really is. Checked the spark plugs and they look as they should.

Troubleshooting the lambda circuit (when WUR was ok).

Comment: I did know that the FV should work as soon as the motor was running and usually buzz while it opened and closes but my FV didn’t make a sound so I started to troubleshooting it…

Glossary:
Oxygen Sensor (also called Lambda Sensor).
Frequency Valve (FV): A valve which is controlled by the Oxygen sensor.
Duty cycle: Usually measured in % and is the amount of time that the Frequency Valve is switched on. On time/(on time + off time)

This is how it works…
The Oxygen Sensor (also known as Lambda Sensor) works like a battery and is located in the exhaust manifold and measures the amount of unburned oxygen in the engine's exhaust. Based on the amount of oxygen, it sends a signal to the ECU which then adjusts the air/fuel mixture for optimum engine performance and emission control.

To rich fuel mixture the output from the sensor: 0.9V.
Perfect fuel mixture the output from the sensor: 0.5V (Lambda value=1… which is the perfect mixture value… 1 part fuel / 14,7part Air… also known as stoichiometric mixture).
To lean fuel mixture the output from the sensor: 0.2V.

The signal controls the FV (via the Oxygen sensors ECU) which works in the same way as the WUR.

To lean mixture -> 0.2V -> open the FV (90% duty cycle) -> lower the pressure in the Fuel Distributor’s lower chamber which increases the amount of fuel to the injectors until the oxygen sensor detects richer mixture.

To rich mixture -> 0.9V -> close the FV ( 0% duty cycle) -> rises the pressure in the Fuel Distributor’s lower chamber which decreases the amount of fuel to the injectors until the oxygen sensor detects leaner mixture.

This is the way the oxygen sensor works in (closed loop), by detecting the amount of oxygen in the exhaust and fine tuning the fuel pressure by open/close the FV until the perfect state occurs (Lambda =1).

I've bought a "meter" to measure the duty cycle on the frequency valve to see if there is anything wrong with the oxygen sensor (there is a diagnostic plug, use no3).

Ignition on...
Measured between the 2 white cables which should be the Oxygen sensors heating and it says 12V so this seems ok.
Measured the Black cable which should be the lambda signal and it shows 0.9V (cold motor). Took it for a drive and measured the signal when the motor was warm, it still says 0.9V. Checked the voltage at different rpm and I can see the voltage changing a little but still around 0.9V.

I then disconnected the Lambda and then the Frequency valve started to tick which it doesn't do when the lambda sensor is connected, should indicate that the valve is ok. Took the car for a drive with the lambda disconnected which didn't go well, black smoke and very poor acceleration, had to stop and connect it again (very very rich mixture but this was before the WUR was fixed).

So what’s the conclusion here!
Frequency valve is OK since it ticks when lambda sensor is disconnected.
Is the mixture so high because of other reasons and therefore the lambda sensor indicates 0.9V and closes the Frequency valve (no ticking), sure looks like it?

Since I didn't get a proper reading for the duty cycle, I built a voltage regulator handling 0 - 1V, which I connected instead of the oxygen sensor, changed the signal between 0.2 - 0.9V and the frequency valve started to tick as it should, following the signal... So the oxygen sensor's ECU was ok...
Measured on number 3 in the diagnostic plug and could follow the duty cycle while I simulated the oxygen sensor.

Noticed that oxygen sensor signal was almost constantly 0.9V when the car was idling ...
Adjusted the fuel mixture screw, almost a full turn counter clockwise to leaner the mixture and then the valve began ticking, the problem was apparently that the mixture was so rich that oxygen sensors circuit was out of range and the lambda system was working overtime to lower it..

Comment: Was difficult to know how much I should dare press down the adjustment screw but I could feel when it gripped the adjustment inside the fuel distributer since it was “sluggish” when I turned it counter clockwise.

Now I can clearly see both the duty cycle changing between 10% to 90 % and hear the FV working, can hear the idle speed following the duty cycle a little but I will adjust the mixture better with a CO meter, hopefully I can fine tune a little bit more then.
 

Attachments

Finally got my car home, a 280SL -1985... Had to get it from Dresten in former East germany.
Drove it home yesterday, about 680 miles and it took about 12 hours.
Stopped for some gas after been driving for an hour and the car didn't start, I knew the car wasn't driven for almost a year because it was hard to start while testdriving it but I thought It would last until I came home at least.
With some help from a some nice people at the gas station I've got a new battery in the car and belive it or not, the car run much better suddenly.

Don't know if the old battery made the alternator to load down(don't know the right word here) the motor while trying to recharge the broken battery.
The car has been repainted in original colour a couple of years ago and I cant find a single scratch or anything on it. Totally rust free with full documentation.

Some small modifications are done like the car-stereo, antenna and the rims but I think I keep them since they look good on the car.
Only positive experiences so far except for some small (hopefully not big) issues.

-Found a loose cable with some "pigback" coming from down under the intake manifold, anyone know what this is (see picture)?

-The spark plugs are totally dry black sooty(carbon), propably due to rich fuel mixture, I dont think all fuel-injectors are leaking so there should be a mixture control somewhere but since the car has an oxygen sensor(lambda) there should be a feedback to the fuel mixture.

-Can anyone tell me wich book (repair guide) I can buy to cover this engine since haynes only takes 350/380/450.

-There are also a small "metall plate" from AMG, does anyone know anything about this (not AMG because I know the company and talked to an old man named Theodore who had worked at AMG for 20 years, met him in the pub in Heidelberg this weekend, very nice old man).

This is a dream come true for me so you will all propably se more of me here asking silly questions from now on... Plesae exuse my poor english when it comes to technical terms.

I will try to put up some pictures on my car now...
Nice ride, I'm glade you settled on that one, I didn't like the pimped 350. This looks like a real classic.
 
HI Pex, Pete here (petesmga)
After following your thread here I went out to my 84 280sl and did some prodding. I knew I had a FV but the car has no cats or O2 sensor. Picked up the mats and there is the ECU and lamda control. Found the O2 sensor wire tucked behind the battery. Where is your O2 sensor located, cat, manifold , engine pipe? The car starts and warms up fine but I am chasing a host of other problems due to an incompetant indy from a prior owner. A partially clogged exhaust and a frozen vacuum modulator fixed the car to where it is quite driveable, but I,m still not satisfied with it's performance compared to my 79 280sl 4sp. Great write up by the way.
 
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