WOW !!! I dont have that engine in mine but what a painfull kick in the balls that is. I will do my part to teach them a lesson by never buying one again. Thats the only language they understand.

 

Well, gee, if the warranty the original purchaser paid for didn't cover it because the problem didn't occur until afterward, then that person or a subsequent purchaser can purchase an extended warranty. Those who don't are called "self-insured."

BTW if you're a good customer of your dealer and have your car regularly serviced there, etc., etc., you're a lot more likely to get some relief on the cost of this problem. If you're a used car purchaser that's never been to the dealer, probably not. Nothing the latter person has done "entitles" him/her to anything, unless of course s/he's paid for an extended warranty.

Welcome to life and the USA judicial system.

 

And your unsympathetic reply begs questions to be answered. What is the purpose of this forum if your only answer is to take it to the dealer? What value is a used Mercedes if your suggestion is to buy only from a dealer? Have you ever heard of product reputation?

The pattern you seem to miss is that this is NOT an unusual occurance. It is very common and should not be. Unusual occurances are what warranties are for. The ocassional bad cam, broken piston, etc. Are rare and unusual events that do not affect a disproportionate number of vehicles. The balance shaft gear DOES. That's the difference. So, your position mirrors that of Mercedes that this is normal. Right?

 

Well above post may be legally accurate it does not change at least in my mind the fact that mercedes ml350 is a piece of crap.

 

That is all well and true... Legally MB doesnt have to do a thing... it will remain to be seen how much good will they show. I just cant understand how a company like MB can build an engine that is prone to a critical failure in such a short time and not step up and fix it. They shouldnt have to be made to do it. They should want to do it. I think people who pay the additional premium these cars command deserve better.

 

I think people who pay the additional premium these cars command deserve better.

Completely agree.

 

I disagree...If someone paid $20k instead of $50k, if they were the first owner, or future owner - in my opinion - they still would not deserve a vehicle with this particular problem.

 

In general terms this makes good sense. However, if I pay an extra $30k (using your above example) to purchase a "premium" vehicle, then my expectations are very high that this "premium" vehicle will perform better and last longer then if I spend $20k on a budget vehicle where my expectations would be lower. While I agree no vehicle should have problems like this, I certainly hope/pray that my higher premium vehicle that cost much more will also be much less likely to have this issue. If not, then I may as well save the big bucks and buy budget.

 

As a fellow owner of MB products I totally understand the owners affected by this problem.
IMHO however the court made the correct decision to throw out the law suit. Just think what the owners are asking MB to do. Compensate them for a mechanical failure that happened to a small number of cars (only a bunch has been reported around sites and if you compare them to the actual number of MLs sold per year it is a small number. ), after the warranty period has expired. They tend to fix things post warranty that are safety related to avoid future law suits. When the warranty expires then you own two things, the vehicle and the risk it may break down. We all take a chance when we keep our cars post warranty for a few years thinking the likelihood of something catastrophic happening is small. It is small but there is still a chance it will happen.

That's my 2 cents.

 

It has happened to a hell of a lot more than you think, what has been reported on this forum throughout the cars fitted with these engines is only a fraction of the number, the majority go unreported and a lot of them were done under warranty so not mentioned.

A few years back one of our workshops that I was with was doing 3/4 of these engines a week and we have 36 workshops around China, makes you think does it not?

 

I think the issue here is one of good business practices vs the law. It was a good legal decision and to have found differently would have set huge precedents. But Mercedes' approach to a known problem smacks of a poor -- even stupid -- business sense. This is consistent with my experience with them. They seem to spend 100% of their money on engineering and pre-sale expenses and leave nothing for after-sale feel-good stuff. No wonder Lexus caught them so much by surprise. Technically, Lexus cars are no better than Mercedes -- arguably not as good -- but that company sure knows how to make its customers feel special. All I get from Mercedes is a silly glossy magazine every so often and $160/hour service costs.

 

Very true. MB are always amongst the first to produce a new design with new tech fitted, alas with anything that is this new problems will arise and it is a risky business.

 

Yep, i think you are getting it...one should definitely get more for premium vehicle. but my point is that no vehicle should have balance shaft that is engineered to wear out. true of $20k or $50k vehicle...unfortunately this level of detail is too hard for courts to work thru in my opinion.

 

agreed.

i think too many Mercedes owners apologize for Mercedes Benz. They will never improve quality if that mentality does not change.

 

Interesting article. Its from Nov. 2006 but I think its relevent and shows the begining of a problem and the attitude of Mercedes.


Mercedes is not happy with reviews in Consumer Reports - Nov. 20, 2006

 

From this report I found one bit that struck me the most;

The Mercedes spokesman blames that low ranking on two major complaints: brake dust from the high performance brakes and problems with the new seven speed transmission, that he says have been repaired.

The 7G transmission problems still exist today and this article is somewhat dated, the valve bodies have been modified 5 times to my knowledge.

 

Nothing major wrong with w164...just tranny, front diff, and engine (balance shaft)...funny thing is that w163 started off crappy with so many small things, ours was like 1 inch think of paperwork when we bought it used...but absolutely nothing major...lol..wife still likes it...

i got rid of my w164 before balance shaft problem, when i heard front diff start to whine with at least 3 other problems i won't bore you with...

 

Since I have been hoping to buy a CLK Cabriolet I have read more than I can hope to remember but here's a few comments:

1. Discussion with my local MB dealer service manager: he said their dealership only had 2 balance shaft/idler gear problems, only MB owners who didn't change their oil every 13,000(not exact) miles had this problem, and there are no goodwill fixes for used car purchasers---2nd and third comment are definitely untrue and I expect 1st one is also.

2. From facebook owners-Many people have had "goodwill fixes" while others are told to go suck an egg.

3. Many dealers have gotten very good at making this repair(practice?) and the time to fix it is greatly reduced-price s/b coming down.

4. Can't say anything about other used car dealers but I wonder how many MB dealers
are informing used car customers: "oh by the way, you can expect to pay an extra $5,000 eventually if you buy this car from me"

5. As noted above MB is making at least some goodwill fixes for this problem, hopefully they will continue to do this. If they do I would stand behind them. If not, then I wouldn't and will tell all people I talk to not to buy MB.

6. I'm still looking to buy but looking at 2005 instead of 2006,2007 which are in my price range, doesn't make sense does it.

 

1. Discussion with my local MB dealer service manager: he said their dealership only had 2 balance shaft/idler gear problems, only MB owners who didn't change their oil every 13,000(not exact) miles had this problem, and there are no goodwill fixes for used car purchasers---2nd and third comment are definitely untrue and I expect 1st one is also.

6. I'm still looking to buy but looking at 2005 instead of 2006,2007 which are in my price range, doesn't make sense does it.

1. I wouldn't believe that service manager for a minute. Of course my local dealership has done nothing but lie and attempt to overcharge, and from stories here on this forum, I have a feeling that trend is very prevalent. Not to mention, his explanation as to the failures doesn't seem to match up.

6. The 2005 are the best of the previous body style quality-wise. It used to be the least reliable Benz, but I'm willing to bet that may be changing soon. Just ask some of the guys who have had both.


Sent from my Autoguide iPad

 

i highly recommend doing just that...buy the 2005 and be extra happy...i wish i would have...

 

2008 should not have balance shaft problem...but while i could be wrong i think you would still potentially have front diff and tranny valve body...not to mention bad door locks, water leaks, cracked wood trim, weird noises, etc.

honestly 48k miles is not enough miles for these problems to show up...but if you don't plan on keeping past like 60k you would probably be ok...

 

I disagree. All brands are relevant...I will make my point simply: There is no reason mb should be less reliable then any other make.

 

Less reliable based on what? Your own experience? It would be statistically irrelevant. Consumer Reports? JD Power? How about publications around the world (as in outside USA?) They tend to be different.

Also, what is "reliability"? For different people is something different. You have to take into account other factors. For example, are TOYOTA's more reliable than MB? One easily says "YES". Just look at the reported problems. The one that has the more problems is the least reliable. Really? Are all other factors equal? Are both cars compared built the same and for the same purpose (sedan, SUV, etc)? Are they similarly equipped? Are the drivers using them the same way, or is the one brand traditionally used by slower more conservative drivers than the other? And last and most important IMHO: What is the expectation of the owner for the vehicle? Do they say "I just spent a bundle on this German car and it better never break down" , but for the Toyota they say "it has all I need and I still spend 20K less than a German car so I am ahead even if it breaks down".

Just some thoughts

 

Since we are getting so off topic here, my common Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer4.6 V8 has been far more reliable than ML350 up to the 50K mile point (dumped ML at 51K). Since we have mentioned Toyotas, I owned a Highlander Ltd for 55k miles, 1 defect being a burned out bulb 2 years into ownership period.

Yes I know what the experience of reliability is truly like.

 

I've had more problems with this ML350 in my 10 months of ownership than I have had in any other vehicle I've owned over 25 years of ownership. I've been back to the MB dealer on average once each month for a problem (not service). IMHO, that equates to poor reliability. And yes, my expectations are higher for a so called "premium" vehicle that cost me much more than a "budget-ish" vehicle that I would pay much less for.

Here's the irony for me - if it weren't for all my issues, then I'd love this vehicle as it has pretty much everything I want and drives beautifully......when it works......and doesn't rattle/squeak/creak/click/leak.

 

My ML350 only squeaked, creaked and leaked power steering fluid, no rattles. I do remember how cheezy the steering wheel was with its cheap plastic and sharp edges, unbelievable in a premium vehicle of any brand. The engine performance was strong/flawless and gas mileage good always.

And I still had interminent problems with climate control fan speed, stereo volume control and idle speed when I got rid of it.

 

I agree with the "irony" piece. I bought the shop manual and was more than willing to pay for parts and fix all the usual crazy mb bs...I was sorry to see it go, and the gas mileage was great. And once i got rid of crap oem tires the thing was so quiet that when i called my mom she could not even tell i was in the car...

 

This thread is about the balance shaft problems with the M272 and M273 engines, with specific interest in relation to the W164. This is a widely documented problem that spans across many other models that share the same engines, and is backed up by observations and statements from several Mercedes technicians.

If you want to argue the merits of Mercedes reliability compared to other manufacturers or anything other than the balance shaft and the M272/M273, do so in another thread, in another forum. Not here.

All unrelated posts and personal attacks from here on out will be deleted and offending members disciplined.

 

This thread is about the balance shaft problems with the M272 and M273 engines ...

Except of course that the M273 is the V8 and does NOT have or need a balance shaft. The thread is about the M272 V6.

 

AsianML,

Thanks for chiming in here. This was getting way off track. No place for squabbling here as it's counter productive. Keep the info and responses relevant. :thumbsup:

Gents, make it a great day.

Mike K.

 

And now back to the topic...

What is the cost of repair for this balance shaft-related problem?

 

What year was the affected 273 used in the GL's?

Thinking really hard about trading off my time bomb.

 

I'm quite sure other car brands aside from MB have/use a balance shaft but I have not heard any issues there. I agree with the judge's decision BUT MB should own up to fixing this because it is not supposed to wear out that fast...I suspect that they will not do anything for us customers (I hope I don't get the balance shaft failure but with my luck it'll happen soon and that would be the end of my MB ownership)...once they got our money, it is an act of god for them to spend money back on us.

I am not impressed with MB and I will NOT buy another MB nor will I recommend one to any of my friends/family. Our 06 ML350 now has 80K+ miles and I would rate it as average with a fair share of issues in/out of warranty. I took my ML350 for service today and the service rep said our ML350 has a slow leak in the engine crankshaft rear seal with a written estimate of $1287.50! I looked it up and the seal costs $30...so labor would be $1250? WTF man? I have the means to pay for this but to me it IS totally NOT worth it. I'll keep adding oil then trade this POS first before I get that fixed...of course I did not say this to the rep.

Now I have the MERCEDES BENDS: A painful and potentially debilitating condition triggered by making the monthly payments on an outrageously expensive German car....I got this from CarTalk.com....I already got over it

To me, MB is Money Bag...those of you who still want an MB...go for it...don't say you were not warned in these forums.

 

I'm quite sure other car brands aside from MB have/use a balance shaft but I have not heard any issues there. .

That's correct, several major automakers use balance shaft(s) in modern engines without problems.