[Stretch]

Thanks guys! I'll hold off on the purchase of parts.

If you guys all think my camshaft is fine & all think it's the lifters...then I am happy....because that'll be a much cheaper/easier fix.

Because to replace the camshaft, they recommend the 8 rocker arms to be replaced as well....now that adds up.

Meanwhile, I'll dump some oil out & add some cleaning detergent to see if it'll free up the lifters. Adding ATF as the cleaning detergent ok? That's all I have at home now, if not...then I'll have to run out to the store to get some.

I zoomed in some more on one pic, are you guys sure that the camshaft is not worn out?

I don't think adding anything to the engine oil is a smart idea. If you want to change the oil ideally you need to do it with a warm engine - but I wouldn't bother changing it until you've checked those lifters!!!!!

(I am persistent)

As for the "wear" marks - a cam won't wear so much there at the start of the rise - I guess it is more likely to wear nearer to the highest point. I'd guess that mark is more likely due to poor manufacturing if it doesn't turn out to be a weird oil optical illusion...

 

[Bob338]

If you guys all think my camshaft is fine & all think it's the lifters...then I am happy....because that'll be a much cheaper/easier fix.

You can check it yourself. Turn the engine over by hand and see if that rocker arm moves the same as the others. If it doesn't then you can contemplate what to replace. If it does, you have the suggestions on the fix of the lifter.

 

[xps]

I don't think adding anything to the engine oil is a smart idea. If you want to change the oil ideally you need to do it with a warm engine - but I wouldn't bother changing it until you've checked those lifters!!!!!

(I am persistent)

As for the "wear" marks - a cam won't wear so much there at the start of the rise - I guess it is more likely to wear nearer to the highest point. I'd guess that mark is more likely due to poor manufacturing if it doesn't turn out to be a weird oil optical illusion...

You can check it yourself. Turn the engine over by hand and see if that rocker arm moves the same as the others. If it doesn't then you can contemplate what to replace. If it does, you have the suggestions on the fix of the lifter.

Ok, thanks!

If only I can get my hands on the car!
We have other cars, BUT my wife ALWAYS take that 190E instead.

If I do get a chance to work on it b4 Sept 3rd, I'll try to wipe down that cam lobe to see if it's like you said...."optical oil illusion".

To turn the engine by hand....do I just turn the crankshaft clockwise (from the front) & tdc or timing is NOT effected by doing this? Just slap the valve cover back on when I am done & I am good?

 

[Nfsjunkie91]

My cam lobes look like that, for the most part. You can run your fingernail across the robe to determine if it's been scored or damaged. Also, camshafts tend to round off when they wear.

Yes, to turn the crankshaft you use a 27mm (I believe) socket to turn it clockwise facing from the front of the engine to the back. It won't throw anything off unless you turn it counter-clockwise. If it does go counter-clockwise, you should reset your chain tensioner. Easier not to let it go backwards.

Also, never turn the engine over by the camshaft -- bad idear.

 

[xps]

Thanks, that's really good to hear...that my camshaft is still good!

Thanks for confirming the procedure!
Good idea, I'll run my fingers across the cam lobe to check.

 

[xps]

Should the A/T shifter be in "P" or "N" when doing this or does not matter?

 

[Nfsjunkie91]

Should the A/T shifter be in "P" or "N" when doing this or does not matter?

Doesn't matter. The torque converter is a fluid coupling, there's nothing locking the trans input shaft to the engine crankshaft. It could be in drive if you felt like it, but I wouldn't advise it.

 

[Nfsjunkie91]

Thanks, that's really good to hear...that my camshaft is still good!

Thanks for confirming the procedure!
Good idea, I'll run my fingers across the cam lobe to check.

Fingernails! They are good at picking up minute scratches. Also, compare the cam lobe that you think is damaged to the others. The areas leading up to the point are typically very flat, if it's rounded (especially compared to the others) then it may be damaged.

 

[xps]

Just came back from my indi, two mechanics listened to it using stethoscope, both think it's the "camshaft" too. They said if lifters, the tapping sound would be much louder.....that's why they think it is the camshaft. So both indis I went to thinks it's the camshaft. BUT they would still like to remove the valve cover to confirm that it is the camshaft & not the lifters 1st. Booked for tomorrow for this......

They will allow me to supply my own parts & will just charge me labor to install. :thumbsup:

He confirmed that the (Ruville/Febi) camshaft from autohausaz is good.
They also suggested if camshaft, I should replace all the lifters too at the same time...cause they are cheap.

 

[Ötzi]

On a 2.3L this is an easy job. do it!

 

[xps]

Whew! Confirmed that it's the lifters & NOT the camshaft.

Found 4 bolts on the 2 rocker arms at the back rather loose, re-torque back to 20NM.

But found one of the bolts in the front really really loose, the thread on the cylinder head is "stripped". Could NOT re-torque the bolt at all, it just turns & turns.
What is the best way in fixing this?

 

[Stretch]

Well you seemed to be so keen to go and buy a new cam shaft I thought it was best to shut up and not say any more 'cos I'd just put a downer on your purchase!

But seeing as you've got a different approach I'd say you need to consider a heli-coil. You do need to check if it will be good for the torque you want to apply to the bolt in an alumium head though. I have a gut feeling that it will be within limits on a M8 thread - but you need to check this. There are different - more exotic - thread insert solutions out there too that might be worth considering.

 

[xps]

I was keen because the pics lied, if only I ran my finger nails across the cam lobes like Nfsjunkie91 suggest a LOT sooner.

But the "shine" around the cam lobe's edges have worn away just as shown in the pics, but I guess that's ok.

Looks like the heli-coil should do the trick, torgue of 20NM isn't much.

I looked thru the service manual in replacing the lifters, BUT it's so vague.
Anybody done it, is there a DIY?

Do you need special tools to remove/insert the lifters into the rocker arms?
How do you fill the reservoir with engine oil 1st like they suggest?

 

[Ötzi]

It's easy. You just remove the bolts holding down the lifter mechanism. Pop the lifters and slide new ones in.
Tighten the bolts to correct torque. I managed to break one when I overtightened luckily it didn't damage the threads and I was able to pull it out with an easy out.

 

[xps]

It's easy. You just remove the bolts holding down the lifter mechanism. Pop the lifters and slide new ones in.
Tighten the bolts to correct torque. I managed to break one when I overtightened luckily it didn't damage the threads and I was able to pull it out with an easy out.

Thanks!
You don't need to rotate the cam so that the lifters are NOT under pressure 1st?

You didn't fill the lifter's reservoir with engine oil 1st like the service manual suggested?

So it's just that simple, remove the bolts on the rocker arms...lifters slides out, insert new lifters back into the rocker arms, bolt rocker arms back on & re-torque the bolts to 20NM.

 

[Ötzi]

oiling will not hurt...

 

[xps]

I removed that loose bolt from the rocker arm, does it look like it already had a "heli-coil" on it at one time or just the threads on the cylinder head got stripped?

Probably more cost effective if I just let my mechanic do the repairs then for me to purchase the heli-coil kit to do the repairs myself.

 

[xps]

oiling will not hurt...

Read the cam should be rotated too, so the cam lobe is pointing down 1st....

 

[xps]

But seeing as you've got a different approach I'd say you need to consider a heli-coil. You do need to check if it will be good for the torque you want to apply to the bolt in an alumium head though. I have a gut feeling that it will be within limits on a M8 thread - but you need to check this. There are different - more exotic - thread insert solutions out there too that might be worth considering.

So it is a "M8" bolt?

Stupid me, I should have taken measurements of the "bolt" while I had it out!

Looked through the heli-coil catalogue, for a M8x1.25 (coarse thread)...the max. locking torque is only 6NM. So the heli-coil solution will not work.

The bolt needs to be torqued at 20NM, so I need at least that.

What other options do you suggest?

 

[Ötzi]

rebore, new threads and matching bolts.