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Best old G-wagon to daily drive?

19K views 10 replies 7 participants last post by  nigeliyeungkk  
#1 ·
I've been mulling over getting a old truck as a daily driver. Right now my two favorites are the first generation Dodge Ram, Land Rover Defender, or the 1980s-early 1990s G-wagon. Could be a W460, or W463, no particular preference, as long as it has a heater and a radio I don't care. Looks like the existing threads on this are all quite old so I'd would be interesting to see if opinions have changed.

What would be the best all-around motor? Gas or diesel? I'm used to gas guzzlers, but it would be nice if I could get the same or slightly better vs. my W221, especially if the gas motors run on premium fuel. I do have a preference for diesel, though some suggest the diesel is less robust than the gas motor.

How is maintenance/reliability? I would like to spend 1-2,000 CAD/year on repairs, not including regular maintenance. Of course going over is fine in the first few years for age related items. Are there any major mechanical time bombs unique to the G like the Porsche IMS bearing?

Power would need to be adequate for 90% city driving at no more than 60MPH and trips of up to 1000kms at 70MPH. I normally daily drive a classic car in the summer so I'm used to slow, but from the way some people talk on forums it sounds like some people say the car will explode and others have no issues.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Older thread but its a quiet evening - better than watching Netflix.

Answer: It all depends on your mechanical ability. If you can't turn a wrench, buy a Toyota.

If you depend on a mechanic, make sure they are a G Wagon mechanic. Otherwise kiss your wallet goodbye. But really the only way to own an older G-Wagon is to own a good set of tools and know how to use them. The forums are great for collective knowledge.

With the G wagon, the older the vehicle, the simpler it is to keep running. My 1982 W460 has wind up windows, no AC, no power door locks, manual seats - it's 100% mechanical, and it will go anywhere, albeit slowly. The downside, it's a petrol (gas) pig, It cost me three times as much at the pump than my 2008 B180 - lucky to get 12 mpg - and we are paying close to US$10 per gallon here in NZ. But it not only does not need premium, it is detuned to run on any gasoline anywhere in the world.

Also, if there is a solar burst that destroys every circuit board on the planet, the older G will still run until you try to fill it up. But if you get the diesel you can run it on olive oil or perfume or just about anything you can find after the apocalypse. When I put my 300GD up for sale when I moved from the US to NZ, I had a number of preppers come by interested in taking it up into the New Hampshire hills with their collection of AK-47's... and that was 25 years ago. Then a guy called, not to buy my LHD, but to ask if I wanted to buy his RHD 280GE impounded at the port and not allowed in because it was under 25 years at that time. He offered it to me for 10% of its value, so I bought it sight unseen, had it packed back into a container and sent it to the bottom of the earth where we drive on the other side of the road. I'm still driving it. Today I used it to move some granite to the upper paddock. It came with a shotgun rack, a dog cage (the dogs had torn up the jump seat upholstery) and a Weimaraner Dog Club of Britain sticker on the side window... very tweedy.

The 280GE runs the M110 motor. My first one ran for 400,000 miles before it gave up the ghost. I located another one for NZ$1,200 and installed it myself over the summer holiday. When I need parts, I tend to find them from Eastern Europe companies who sell online. As a topical matter (it's 19 March 2022), hopefully Mr. Putin will not start a nuclear war that would wipe out the vendors I use. Unlike America where G Wagons tend to be a status symbol in Europe they are work horses thus parts are sold reasonably by Germans, Poles and probably even Ukrainians until last week. There also are some specialists in the US, which should be good for you.

As for what breaks, nothing out of the ordinary. My ignition multi-switch started failing, so I ordered one from Eastern Europe. It started acting up, so I permanently hot-wired the ignition. Starting requires throwing the hot-wire switch, then turning the key to crank - try that on a 2022 car. On the semi-annual inspection the steering rods were completely frozen. Not surprising given their age. I ordered the two complete rod assemblies for €95 and €50 respectively and shipping to NZ was €87 (that also included all the stuff to replace the wheel bearings). I installed them myself with basic tools in a couple hours. The wheels are aligned using strings - again a DIY job. Tires tend to be very cheap because Toyota dealers get their new trucks in with 215/80 R16 tires that they immediately remove to put wider tires on. They sell the removed ones with 10 miles on them for $25 each.

The brakes are not like a modern car. Disk fronts, drum rears and you have to stand on them to stop fast. The power steering is great and gives feedback, but make sure the steering damper is working, otherwise you get juddering. Also make sure you use the front & rear diff lock regularly or they can stop working. Every so often stop, put it in lower case, lock all the diffs and see how close to a 100% (45°) slope you can drive up. If you want to be really entertained, do this with your wife or girlfriend... it beats an amusement park ride, especially the ride back down.

I use mine on the farm and abuse it regularly. It is rated cargo capacity is 650 kg. I've moved 2000 kg of stone on the farm and it did not complain. I've towed a 6 metre trailer up a 30° farm slope loaded with firewood and it made it to the top... in 4WD, front, rear and centre locked in lower case and real chains threaded through the rims. I literally have pulled stumps with it and dragged trees and jarrah telephone poles around the property. I am constantly exceeding the official ratings and it performs like a champ. Nothing bends, nothing breaks and it keeps on running. When the taxi failed to show and we needed to get everyone to the ferry, we managed to pack 20 people - including some rather large Maori boys - into the LWB version, although faces were plastered on the glass (the ferry is only 5 minutes away).

As for speed, officially they say it good for speeds around 90+ mph, but at 70 you may want to install a fuel consumption gauge. Remember you are driving a brick. On the freeway, I find I toddle along at 80 kph (50 mph) with the windows wide open and let everyone blast past me at the speed limit (100 kph/62 mph) or higher. It's a whole different experience than when I'm in the Jaguar X350 with the air shocks and climate control cocooned in my own world. In the G, I tend to wave at a lot more people, and they wave back.

But it is surprisingly comfortable because of the coil springs. Also, if you buy the older W460, don't be in a hurry to get places. When you make a stop people will come up to you and want to talk. My recommendation is to look for one in military colours. Mine is called Agave Green and it has oxidized to flat green. It sparks a lot of conversations that I doubt would happen if I was driving a late-model bling G. Mine has earned every dent honestly and that seems to attract conversation.

To explain the quality of the mechanical design, there is a story that the US won the war against Germany (WW-II) because America built simple vehicles that could be fixed by GI's scrounging for bailing wire at a nearest French farm, while Germans made far more sophisticated machines that needed the right mechanic and tools - and by the time they had arrived, the Americans had blown them to bits. I would say the older G-Wagons are more American GI in that sense. If you need a part, there is a work around. If you need a door hinge, take the door off, take it to a machine shop and they make the pin. If the windshield breaks (an owl hit mine while driving home at night), they can cut a new one from flat rated glass. For the most part, you will never visit the MB dealer. First, they won't have the part, or if they do, they want 5X the price.

As you live in Canada, be very aware of rust. To know what you are getting into watch this series of videos

.

The G-Wagon does have a separate chassis, so you can just keep filling the holes with Newtech Fibre Filler or whatever the Canadian equivalent is, and the panels are flat, so relatively easy to repair. But if you want it to look factory new, avoid one that has seen road salt.

When I bought mine the interior was in rough shape. But I went to an auction of the Xena film company (three day close out) and bought the leather room for $500 (about $30,000 of leather). Found a Ferrari upholster who had gone back to art school and need to earn some cash, so I redid the interior in Xena leather. We did the rear seats in saddle leather because of the dogs, kids and horses, the front in cowhide, and the panels in Italian handbag leather. Very unique and takes a lot more abuse than the original cloth.

I bought mine in 1997 and this year it turned 40 years old. I expect my grandson will probably inherit it in another 20-30 years, although by that time it may have been re-powered with an electric motor. If you have not yet made up your mind, I would recommend the W460.
 
#11 ·
Older thread but its a quiet evening - better than watching Netflix.

Answer: It all depends on your mechanical ability. If you can't turn a wrench, buy a Toyota.

If you depend on a mechanic, make sure they are a G Wagon mechanic. Otherwise kiss your wallet goodbye. But really the only way to own an older G-Wagon is to own a good set of tools and know how to use them. The forums are great for collective knowledge.

With the G wagon, the older the vehicle, the simpler it is to keep running. My 1982 W460 has wind up windows, no AC, no power door locks, manual seats - it's 100% mechanical, and it will go anywhere, albeit slowly. The downside, it's a petrol (gas) pig, It cost me three times as much at the pump than my 2008 B180 - lucky to get 12 mpg - and we are paying close to US$10 per gallon here in NZ. But it not only does not need premium, it is detuned to run on any gasoline anywhere in the world.

Also, if there is a solar burst that destroys every circuit board on the planet, the older G will still run until you try to fill it up. But if you get the diesel you can run it on olive oil or perfume or just about anything you can find after the apocalypse. When I put my 300GD up for sale when I moved from the US to NZ, I had a number of preppers come by interested in taking it up into the New Hampshire hills with their collection of AK-47's... and that was 25 years ago. Then a guy called, not to buy my LHD, but to ask if I wanted to buy his RHD 280GE impounded at the port and not allowed in because it was under 25 years at that time. He offered it to me for 10% of its value, so I bought it sight unseen, had it packed back into a container and sent it to the bottom of the earth where we drive on the other side of the road. I'm still driving it. Today I used it to move some granite to the upper paddock. It came with a shotgun rack, a dog cage (the dogs had torn up the jump seat upholstery) and a Weimaraner Dog Club of Britain sticker on the side window... very tweedy.

The 280GE runs the M110 motor. My first one ran for 400,000 miles before it gave up the ghost. I located another one for NZ$1,200 and installed it myself over the summer holiday. When I need parts, I tend to find them from Eastern Europe companies who sell online. As a topical matter (it's 19 March 2022), hopefully Mr. Putin will not start a nuclear war that would wipe out the vendors I use. Unlike America where G Wagons tend to be a status symbol in Europe they are work horses thus parts are sold reasonably by Germans, Poles and probably even Ukrainians until last week. There also are some specialists in the US, which should be good for you.

As for what breaks, nothing out of the ordinary. My ignition multi-switch started failing, so I ordered one from Eastern Europe. It started acting up, so I permanently hot-wired the ignition. Starting requires throwing the hot-wire switch, then turning the key to crank - try that on a 2022 car. On the semi-annual inspection the steering rods were completely frozen. Not surprising given their age. I ordered the two complete rod assemblies for €95 and €50 respectively and shipping to NZ was €87 (that also included all the stuff to replace the wheel bearings). I installed them myself with basic tools in a couple hours. The wheels are aligned using strings - again a DIY job. Tires tend to be very cheap because Toyota dealers get their new trucks in with 215/80 R16 tires that they immediately remove to put wider tires on. They sell the removed ones with 10 miles on them for $25 each.

The brakes are not like a modern car. Disk fronts, drum rears and you have to stand on them to stop fast. The power steering is great and gives feedback, but make sure the steering damper is working, otherwise you get juddering. Also make sure you use the front & rear diff lock regularly or they can stop working. Every so often stop, put it in lower case, lock all the diffs and see how close to a 100% (45°) slope you can drive up. If you want to be really entertained, do this with your wife or girlfriend... it beats an amusement park ride, especially the ride back down.

I use mine on the farm and abuse it regularly. It is rated cargo capacity is 650 kg. I've moved 2000 kg of stone on the farm and it did not complain. I've towed a 6 metre trailer up a 30° farm slope loaded with firewood and it made it to the top... in 4WD, front, rear and centre locked in lower case and real chains threaded through the rims. I literally have pulled stumps with it and dragged trees and jarrah telephone poles around the property. I am constantly exceeding the official ratings and it performs like a champ. Nothing bends, nothing breaks and it keeps on running. When the taxi failed to show and we needed to get everyone to the ferry, we managed to pack 20 people - including some rather large Maori boys - into the LWB version, although faces were plastered on the glass (the ferry is only 5 minutes away).

As for speed, officially they say it good for speeds around 90+ mph, but at 70 you may want to install a fuel consumption gauge. Remember you are driving a brick. On the freeway, I find I toddle along at 80 kph (50 mph) with the windows wide open and let everyone blast past me at the speed limit (100 kph/62 mph) or higher. It's a whole different experience than when I'm in the Jaguar X350 with the air shocks and climate control cocooned in my own world. In the G, I tend to wave at a lot more people, and they wave back.

But it is surprisingly comfortable because of the leaf springs. Also, if you buy the older W460, don't be in a hurry to get places. When you make a stop people will come up to you and want to talk. My recommendation is to look for one in military colours. Mine is called Agave Green and it has oxidized to flat green. It sparks a lot of conversations that I doubt would happen if I was driving a late-model bling G. Mine has earned every dent honestly and that seems to attract conversation.

To explain the quality of the mechanical design, there is a story that the US won the war against Germany (WW-II) because America built simple vehicles that could be fixed by GI's scrounging for bailing wire at a nearest French farm, while Germans made far more sophisticated machines that needed the right mechanic and tools - and by the time they had arrived, the Americans had blown them to bits. I would say the older G-Wagons are more American GI in that sense. If you need a part, there is a work around. If you need a door hinge, take the door off, take it to a machine shop and they make the pin. If the windshield breaks (an owl hit mine while driving home at night), they can cut a new one from flat rated glass. For the most part, you will never visit the MB dealer. First, they won't have the part, or if they do, they want 5X the price.

As you live in Canada, be very aware of rust. To know what you are getting into watch this series of videos

.

The G-Wagon does have a separate chassis, so you can just keep filling the holes with Newtech Fibre Filler or whatever the Canadian equivalent is, and the panels are flat, so relatively easy to repair. But if you want it to look factory new, avoid one that has seen road salt.

When I bought mine the interior was in rough shape. But I went to an auction of the Xena film company (three day close out) and bought the leather room for $500 (about $30,000 of leather). Found a Ferrari upholster who had gone back to art school and need to earn some cash, so I redid the interior in Xena leather. We did the rear seats in saddle leather because of the dogs, kids and horses, the front in cowhide, and the panels in Italian handbag leather. Very unique and takes a lot more abuse than the original cloth.

I bought mine in 1997 and this year it turned 40 years old. I expect my grandson will probably inherit it in another 20-30 years, although by that time it may have been re-powered with an electric motor. If you have not yet made up your mind, I would recommend the W460.
Lovely answer!
>If you can't turn a wrench, buy a Toyota. 10/10
If you depend on a mechanic, make sure they are a G Wagon mechanic. 10/10
Well - an 1990's knowledgeable mechanic are plenty and enthusiastic here in Malaysia.
>1982 W460 has wind up windows, no AC, no power door locks, manual seats - it's 100% mechanical, and it will go anywhere, albeit slowly. 10/10
for my G2 - 2nd Gwagon I selected a UK sourced 1984 W460 300GD, wind up windows etc. Just put in new aircon for £620.00 (Malaysia). Yes 100% mechanical...!
>The brakes are not like a modern car. 10/10
So in 2024 - I exchanged every bit for a new Brake system set. Now I have confidence. (Malaysia Price OK).
>I toddle along at 80 kph (50 mph) 10/10
Yes it cruises like a dream at 80kph - but have to puch mine to 110 kph on occasion and it warms up a bit too high...
So quiet with closed windows and AIRCON!
>live in Canada, be very aware of rust. 10/10
My G1 - 1989 SWB W460 230GE auto was cosmetically pristine, but had deep rust that was too expensive for me to fix in London priced workshops. My G2 1983 W460 LWB is UK sourced - but in Malaysia since 2013 and seems rust free.

Agree in full with poster. W460 will last another 30 years or until fuel runs out.
Image
 
#5 ·
Wow what a story and journey @rhd280!!

While I haven’t owned my G for as long as you have, I can certainly relate to many parts of it.

To the OP, here is my 2c..owning a G (or for that matter any classic car) is a function of how mechanically minded you are. If you take it to the shops it will clean your pockets. But the Gs are reasonably simple to work on (pre 2002 especially) yourself with hand tools. I have owned my 1997 G300TD for about 4 years and the only major thing was a transmission rebuild. Everything else like swapping a shot motor mount, changing alternator, doing basic service, etc. I was able to accomplish in my garage with the help/ advice of a friend who knows Gs.

To give a more focused answer to your question..for utmost simplicity and least issues I’d recommend the 461 series 300D with the OM617 engine. It will literally go on for ever. If driven at 55-60 mph it will give 15-18 mpg. It does struggle at modern highway speeds but other than that it’s ace.

Similarly at subsequent diesels in 461/ 463 styles OM603, OM602 and OM606 are amazing. Mercedes made amazing diesels. The 602 with a factory turbo is a bit of a unicorn but it’s the most mechanical and zero electronics version. The gas Gs are an order more refined but my preferred gas G is the G500. Oodles of power and bullet proof driveline.

My favorite of the bunch is the OM606 463 body style which was made from 1996-1999. They are harder to come by in a clean non rusty state. They have enough power to cruise at 74-80 mph. I get about 16 mpg at 72 mph steady. It’s quiet and comfy inside and yet it can haul, climb, do all the dirty work on demand. I like the 463 because it has a half decent air conditioning (European cats never excelled at air conditioning till early 2000s) and the electronics are dead simple and nothing is designed to bring the whole vehicle into limp mode for a small failure. I would go with a pre 2002 463 because after 2002 Merc changed the interior design for more comfort but ate away into the space and introduced a lot more electronics.

Hope this helps.
 
#6 ·
Pacchi I agree fully with your whole list about G’s.another note is all Mercedes after 2002 have become too complicated to do service on and you might as well own another brand. Since the 80’s through to 2002 was the golden era of MB. Since then the only brands I like Are Toyota and small Subaru SUV’s. Having Agood local mechanic about diesel’s by MB and especially G’s is most important.
 
#7 ·
Interesting thread. I'm new to the G world and only because of an opportunity fell in my lap, not because I was looking. I consider myself a decent mechanic but more "old school" logic. The new stuff doesn't excite me at all. I picked up a 2000 Europa last summer and it took a good six months of working evenings and weekends to get it registered in CA. I think I lucked out with getting an early version because of what's been talked about here. It was a basket case with LOTS of issues so I've had a crash course in G wagen learnings. Bottom line though, it's simple enough for me to work on with the help of the internet and forums like this.

Funny thing is, it's my wife's truck and she's ecstatic about it now that it's on the road, but I've grown to like it so much that I'd consider getting something for myself. It would have to be an older one and need some attention since I can't afford to buy a nice one. Kinda fits my style anyway, when someone sees me in our Europa I just tell them I'm the mechanic. :cool:
 
#8 ·
Kinda fits my style anyway
When I lived on an island across the bay from Newport RI, in the states, I had a US Navy Motor Whale Boat that had been restored to original 1969 Uniflite Navy condition. The work boats on the bay who hated the gin palace motor yachts and sneered at the yachties in their sailboats, loved it. The sailboats who disdained anyone who motors loved it. The gin palace Rolex crowd thought it was great. And of course the Navy boys swooned, especially the retired admirals, of whom there were many on our island. It was completely the opposite of every boat in the yacht club, but everyone thought it was the ultimate class act. Me? Well between our next door neighbor and us, we had about ten guest bedrooms, and every weekend sexy young Eurotrash would rents Cessna's and fly in for really memorable weekends - we were the only married couple, and the friendships we made have lasted for life. I needed something rated to carry 20 people, able to be beached for a lobster boil on the sand, and did not need a month every Spring to prep for the season. The public reception was amusing, but not why I bought it.

The same with an old G Wagon. A fancy new G Wagon says you are a rich prick, or a golden-handcuffed Greenwich housewife or a gangsta. An old one - especially if had never been waxed and the paint is oxidizing is like the Navy boat - everyone gives you the thumbs up. The serious SUV guys know your G is the last to get stuck. The workers know it is a grunt machine. The rich guys in their AMG G63 come over and ask a zillion questions as if you are driving their authentic ancestor (which you are). The only thing better is to buy an ex-military (see You can buy an ex-military G-Class for less than £13k) that has not been blinged.

Today I hauled two tonnes (2,000 kg) of granite from the mainland to our island (I like living on islands). The rear tires looked slightly compressed, but otherwise, it drove normal. The rated carrying weight is 685 kg. Yes, I went slow and took back roads, keeping in the slow lane and not tempting fate, but the capability of the G is just amazing. The only drawback was stopping for petrol (gas). It cost NZ$50 and the odometer (in miles) said I had driven 50 miles. Ugh - $1 a mile (US$0.69).

If your wife is driving the long-wheel base, get a short-wheel based with a canvas top. Check out these guys Mercedes Benz 250 G Wagon | L Jackson & Co or these Fahrzeuge . Or this site, if you are brave: mercedes g class used – Search for your used car on the parking

To learn more, read this There's a German Dealer Selling Off Dozens of Cheap, Ex-Military G-Wagens

I look forward to reading about your his and her G Wagons.