AndyFracica - 2/13/2006 11:19 PM

Why did MB put the battery under the front seat and why did they make it so you have to cut the carpet to remove it?

I'm surprised that the MB didn't come up with a better plan for this.

Comments?

This is the height of hubris. I understand the idea of long-life batteries and they do have a charge port under the hood, but batteries are still relatively failure prone (they are getting better, but they are still a weak link in the chain).

I find the reinstallation instructions humorous in the manual, too. They don't mention what you're supposed to do with your cut up carpet . One would think they would ask you to goto your authorised (sic) MB Dealer for a complete interior reupholsering .

How frivolous.

 

I am glad that mine is leased. hopefully the battery will last the remaining 37 months. []

You would think that they would have put in a zipper or better yet velcro! []

 

Excuse me sir, could you please help me jump start my car? Do you have cables? Yes? Just a minute while I go get my carpet cutting tools. I'll be right back... []

I hope the battery is protected against spills. I don't think my 5yr old and her friends recognize the importance of a dry battery...

 

I think the user manual shows that you can access two terminals under the bonnet to jump start.

 

dimitriss - 2/13/2006 12:59 AM

Excuse me sir, could you please help me jump start my car? Do you have cables? Yes? Just a minute while I go get my carpet cutting tools. I'll be right back... []

I hope the battery is protected against spills. I don't think my 5yr old and her friends recognize the importance of a dry battery...

What happens if you drive throught high water? Will water come in through the vent hole and drown the battery?[:0][:0][:0]

 

cedric - 2/14/2006 3:47 AM

I think the user manual shows that you can access two terminals under the bonnet to jump start.

Hi Cedric, don't confuse us with facts. [][][][:I][:I]

 

AndyFracica - 2/13/2006 11:19 PM

Why did MB put the battery under the front seat and why did they make it so you have to cut the carpet to remove it?

I'm surprised that the MB didn't come up with a better plan for this.

Comments?

It's a replica ML ! just like my TAG replica watch.

The authentic ML have the battery on the roof for easy access.

 

AndyFracica - 2/14/2006 8:31 AM

dimitriss - 2/13/2006 12:59 AM

Excuse me sir, could you please help me jump start my car? Do you have cables? Yes? Just a minute while I go get my carpet cutting tools. I'll be right back... []

I hope the battery is protected against spills. I don't think my 5yr old and her friends recognize the importance of a dry battery...

What happens if you drive throught high water? Will water come in through the vent hole and drown the battery?[:0][:0][:0]

Andy, if you drive thru water high enough to get to the battery you have lots more to be concerned about than the battery. Its actually higher off the road than the battery in your W211 or for that matter a W210. It can be jumped from under the hood and the carpet cuts that are required are in places that can't be seen. The only down side is having the battery replaced by roadside assistance where I am told that at least my dealer will not do that as the seat airbag sensors must be recallibrated after seat removal and replacement. This becomes a liability issue for the dealer. The only other issue re roadside is that if the trans servo that shifts leaves you stuck in park with a failure the car must be dragged onto a flatbed and taken to the shop as there is no emer release for the Park position.

 

"The only other issue re roadside is that if the trans servo that shifts leaves you stuck in park with a failure the car must be dragged onto a flatbed and taken to the shop as there is no emer release for the Park position."

Good point, however I believe you could jump the vehicle from under the hood enough to take it out of park and pull it on a flatbed.

 

lbc - 2/14/2006 9:29 AM

"The only other issue re roadside is that if the trans servo that shifts leaves you stuck in park with a failure the car must be dragged onto a flatbed and taken to the shop as there is no emer release for the Park position."

Good point, however I believe you could jump the vehicle from under the hood enough to take it out of park and pull it on a flatbed.

But if that servo dies (i.e. not because of insufficient voltage, but a mechanical failure in the servo assembly itself, be it gears or the motor itself), you're screwed.

For a long time now cars have become a lot more reliant on electronics, it seems the last vestiges of mechanical mechanisms are going away (e.g. the new S class has a completely electronic emergency brake!).

 

AndyFracica - 2/13/2006 8:19 PM

Why did MB put the battery under the front seat and why did they make it so you have to cut the carpet to remove it?

I'm surprised that the MB didn't come up with a better plan for this.

Comments?

I assume they put it under the seat to lower the center of gravity (a good thing). When the carpet is cut to access there is still a cover to go back over it. I don't know why they didn't precut the carpet.

 

Ozz - 2/14/2006 7:35 AM

It's a replica ML ! just like my TAG replica watch.

The authentic ML have the battery on the roof for easy access.

That's perfect it will match my Rolex Daytona replica. [][8D][][:0]

 

sosh - 2/14/2006 8:16 AM

Andy, if you drive thru water high enough to get to the battery you have lots more to be concerned about than the battery. Its actually higher off the road than the battery in your W211 or for that matter a W210. It can be jumped from under the hood and the carpet cuts that are required are in places that can't be seen. The only down side is having the battery replaced by roadside assistance where I am told that at least my dealer will not do that as the seat airbag sensors must be recallibrated after seat removal and replacement. This becomes a liability issue for the dealer. The only other issue re roadside is that if the trans servo that shifts leaves you stuck in park with a failure the car must be dragged onto a flatbed and taken to the shop as there is no emer release for the Park position.

But wait, if the battery is under the seat then the bottom of it could not be more than 8 or 9 inches above the ground. The ML is supposed to handle up 20" of standing water. If my math is correct the water would 12" above the bottom of the battery. If there is a drainage hole in the bottom of the battery box water could get in through the hole and flood the inside of the car. Of couse, once the water covers the top of the battery it will more than likely short out a whole bunch of stuff. [:0]

 

bmustaf - 2/14/2006 9:49 AM

For a long time now cars have become a lot more reliant on electronics, it seems the last vestiges of mechanical mechanisms are going away (e.g. the new S class has a completely electronic emergency brake!).

I'm still waiting for steer by wire and flying cars. []

 

GregW / Oregon - 2/14/2006 12:13 PM

I don't know why they didn't precut the carpet.

And that really is the whole point of this discussion. Maybe MB just didn't want anybody to access the battery until it was bad - but - what happens if you take it in for service, say on the radio and they have to pull the battery? I guess the technician will have to cut the carpet.

 

you guys are just noticing this now?!?

I noticed this at the ML unveiling event. One of the other visitors and I spent a good 5min looking under the hood for the battery until we gave up and asked a MB rep. Then we spent some time making fun of such a goofy design decision

 

RE: you guys are just noticing this now?!?

kenyee - 2/16/2006 10:05 PM

I noticed this at the ML unveiling event. One of the other visitors and I spent a good 5min looking under the hood for the battery until we gave up and asked a MB rep. Then we spent some time making fun of such a goofy design decision

Here here on the goofy design. I would really like to know their reason.[]

 

ML W164 battery under to seat

one reason for not locating the battery under the engine bay is longevity. they stay a lot cooler when not placed near the engine. mechanics tell me that this can make a significant difference to battery life and reliability. another is weight distribution. I believe some BMW's have the batteries in the boot (trunck) for that reason. Cheers Basil

 

I don't know if you noticed but this post was made 5 years ago when the W164 ML's first came out.
The W164 ML's use a sealed AGM battery and requires no venting.
Mike

 

For better weight distribution maybe they should try putting battery under the hood, and engine under the seat.

 

I understand the rationale. Locating the battery under the seat does protect the battery from the thermal abuse it would be subjected to under the hood. Locating it under the seat for better weight distribution is dubious on a vehicle with a curb weight of 4800 pounds. But, to have to cut the carpet to remove the battery! C'mon man!

 

Equal weight distribution is important for the handling characteristics of the car no matter what the curb weight. Since the car is heavy, handling is even more of a consideration IMO.
I am told that seat removal is not necessary for battery replacement. Carpet has to be cut on dashed lines and fold. Not in pieces.

 

Battery under the seat.

It's also the same reason (partly but mostly) why the E Class had two batteries.

It protects the battery in the event of a frontal or rear impact. The battery is protected so that critical systems such as ABS, ECU, MBrace, Lights, door locks, Airbags etc can still function by being able to provide power once the engine is compromised.

A secondary benefit is that the battery resides in a more stable climate eg temperature and vibration.

The battery is a sealed AGM type battery so there are no gasses produced or vented by the battery. AGM is also called a VRLA type which should not be confused with a gel cell which is not the same. The MB battery has no free acid in it, so there is nothing to spill. They do have very specific charging requirements which translate to 10% of the Ah rating. They are not rated in Cold Cranking amps, although this is still published since the Ah rating determines the ultimate strength of a battery to sustain volts over time under load.

As for cutting the carpet, whats the issue with this? You either cut it before it is installed and risk a poor fit when the interior is installed OR you cut it after everything is secured in the vehicle. Either way you have to have access to the battery.

Really now, it's no more idiotic that the PC12 having it's battery located in the back accessory area rather than the nose section like a Piper PA28...isn't that why you get a PC12 and not a Piper, safety, reliability and maximum capability? MB is no different.

Before you knock a design, understand WHY.

 

It's also the same reason (partly but mostly) why the E Class had two batteries.

The W164 ML's also have two batteries.

Really now, it's no more idiotic that the PC12 having it's battery located in the back accessory area rather than the nose section like a Piper PA28...

Your comparing a PC12 to a PA28? WOW!!!
Mike

 

So to replace the battery, does the passenger seat need to be removed?

As previous post stated, the ML164 has 2 batteries. We know one is under the seat, where is the other one located?

Thanks, Dave

 

As previous post stated, the ML164 has 2 batteries. We know one is under the seat, where is the other one located?

They are both under the seat - the small "maintenance" battery is to the front right of the main battery - even harder to reach unless you remove the seat.

Actually, removing the seat is VERY easy - I've done it - takes about 5 minutes. Pop off the seat belt side cover (from the top), and remove the torx screw holding in the seat belt (tabbed so you get it back correctly). Remove the four star bolts holding in the seat at each corner - remove the front bolts first, move the seat up, remove the rear. Finally, remove the connectors for the power seat, lights, etc. You do this last so you can move the seat to get to the bolts.

The seat lifts right up, turn it sideways, and it goes out a fully open door - no problem - get an assistant if you are truly worried about bulk / weight. Grab it under the front, and put a hand in between the seat and back cushions. Note - I'm an out of shape 50 something year old and it caused me no problems. Once you lift out the seat, note there are pins which will go back into slots to align everything.

Then the battery is fully open, you don't need to cut the carpet - just lift it up and bend it over, and the auxiliary battery is also reachable.

One note - don't unhook both batteries simultaneously. Replace the aux with the main connected, or the main with the aux connected. Otherwise all sorts of modules forget things - like power window limits, seat limits, headlight curve system, etc, etc.

 

New Battery installed

Well, my time came for a new battery. My '06 ML has just over 36k miles and on a couple occasions recently it acted up on start up - took a while to crank. On a Friday evening I went into a store, came back out and car wouldn't start. Friend came and jumped me and I got home safely. Called Mercedes roadside assistance and they responded. Guy said he couldn't change it as the seat had to be removed! He said I would need to take it in. He left and I went onto this forum (THANKS fellow Benz posters!). So with a hurricane coming (Sandy) I was apprehensive about waiting until I could get into Benz for a regular appointment. I might really need my ML to get out of here and I may not always have someone to jump start me. On Saturday morning my friend took me to the Benz dealer, I bought a battery ($153), brought it home and installed it myself using my manual and a PDF I found here on the forum for instructions. It is pretty simple. I didn't know that you have to move the seat all the way forward and up. Took me about 30 minutes. The only tough part is that the battery is pretty heavy and you need to move it around a bit to get it out and put the new one into the well it sits in. You DO NOT have to remove the seat and my carpet was already cut from Benz doing a battery check on the last service in January.

 

Great info altamonte. I'll have to remember this for next time. Thank you.