Erm

Dont you have a sc on it ?

 

Yes? But I have two engines

 

OOOOH! You've opened up PANDORA'S BOX now!

 

I like the idea. Hope it can be made to talk to ECM

Keep us informed along the way.

BAzzle

 

You mean ECU? What is the ibg issue there? I need to see what the totalt cost is gonna be and what really needs to be done. First I need to see if there's something to do with the Kompressor/Turbo issue, I could

1- Try to hock them together somewhere bye the intak paralell or seire (bad idea cus of the pressure issue)
2- Try to get the kompressor to blow the air against the Intercooler (crazy idea)
3- Disconnect the kompressor

And after, what must I do with the engine to hold 300-400 horsepower? I
dont think it's just plug and play...

Where did you get the SLR wheels? I would like to see them on your car.

Hehe, you must wait until the summer come I got the wheels today and they are right here next to me

 

that looks like some nice hardware..hope you can get it working....

 

Where did you get the SLR wheels? I would like to see them on your car.

 

eBay Motors: Mercedes-Benz : SLK-Class (item 260192315075 end time Dec-20-07 05:38:37 PST)

I found this on ebay..turbocharged slk320 (only one?) anyone? turbo 230 0r 320 ? pictures?

 

I found this on ebay..turbocharged slk320 (only one?) anyone? turbo 230 0r 320 ? pictures?

I asked the seller for more information but have not yet heard back. Maybe there is someone on this forum lives in Maryland could go check it out and get the scoop. I know I'm interested.

 

I'd be interested in one for a 320.

 

Who built the turbo?

 

Noticed the kit has no upgraded fuel injectors and the piping bends before and after the intercooler look like the bends are to wide but that would be the least of your worries. No EMS/ECu relflash makes your fuel problem a potential deal breaker. What PSI is the kit designed to run at. 5-7 psi I would imagine. Does the header even fit. Kit does seems to look good and there have been others who have turboed the m111 engine. Hagmann out of Germany ran a twin charging setup like Jim Wolf did with the M45 in the Mini Cooper. Speedwerx rana T-3/T=4 Garrett a few years back when the M111 came in the C230. Dynoed it to 310bhp and 315lbs. His problem was tyring to add addittional fuel injectors when upgraded injectors may have been the way to go. He tried the Haltech EMS but with very mixed results. He stated the he had to run a MAF clamp as the engine would go into limp mode at 12psi! Ensure fuel and coling upgrades are sufficient and you may be on to a working setup. From the looks of the kit the air filter will not be shieled from the engine bay hot air.

It is of my opinion that you should run some base line dynos, install an wide band O2 sensor for air/fuel ratios, and maybe run a piggy back fuel injector that the OEm ECu does not even know is there. Most try working with the OEM EMS?ECU and with MB it seems possiblly better results could be attained with the OEM electornice not even detecting the controllers!!!! Just food for thought. I really like the notion and wish you all the very best. Just remember the fuel injectors. Have one flow tested before anything else!

 

+1 on the fuel maps. To really uncork that setup you'd need highly modified chips (and I don't know that anyone has figured out how to reprogram the M.B. ones properly) or a standalone EMS (big $$$ for a good one). . . Or another solution (I know of a good one, but it's a trade secret. . .).

It's completely doable, it's always just a question of time and money. You could easily custom-design a system, figure out the piping bends required, mounting locations, etc. and have it built. It isn't rocket science as far as the hardware (turbocharging is actually very simple). The kicker is getting it to do its magic without running you into the limits of your fuel delivery system and running you lean. Lean operation and high boost levels make bad things happen. Quickly.

Of course, a very simple and elegant solution to the "extra fuel" problem was devised by Reeves Callaway back in the early 1980s. It doesn't even require fuel map reprogramming. If you do your homework, you too can learn this "black art of the turbo". . . I won't hand out the answers here, but I'll just say there's more than one way to get more fuel into the cylinders than through the existing injectors. . .

The only things stopping me from doing it are (1) I don't really have the time these days, (2) I don't feel like tearing my daily driver apart to install new engine internals and (3) the price of forged pistons & rods is a bit of a put-off. But some day I will do it. It is not hard if you study the systems, research how others have solved the key problems and are willing to do some metal work.

 

+1 on the fuel maps. To really uncork that setup you'd need highly modified chips (and I don't know that anyone has figured out how to reprogram the M.B. ones properly) or a standalone EMS (big $$$ for a good one). . . Or another solution (I know of a good one, but it's a trade secret. . .).

It's completely doable, it's always just a question of time and money. You could easily custom-design a system, figure out the piping bends required, mounting locations, etc. and have it built. It isn't rocket science as far as the hardware (turbocharging is actually very simple). The kicker is getting it to do its magic without running you into the limits of your fuel delivery system and running you lean. Lean operation and high boost levels make bad things happen. Quickly.

Of course, a very simple and elegant solution to the "extra fuel" problem was devised by Reeves Callaway back in the early 1980s. It doesn't even require fuel map reprogramming. If you do your homework, you too can learn this "black art of the turbo". . . I won't hand out the answers here, but I'll just say there's more than one way to get more fuel into the cylinders than through the existing injectors. . . .

I guess you could build a fuel holding tank separate from your fuel system. basically it's pressurized by the turbine, the pressure tank runs a line to the intake throttle body or to each port. the line sprays a jetted mist to feed the motor extra fuel. It's really simple. but the next problem is pulling out timing on this cars' ecu..

 

Turbo technics in the uk did a turbo mb years ago, A saloon but a v6.

Turbo Technics Maybe they could help

 

turbo vs supercharged?

Both are fun to drive in my experienced.

turbo faster than SC.... in longer run?

Sc faster than turbo? in short run?

Well, you figure that one out lol... Heres are my experienced about driving sc car (slk) The slk has better pull on starting point (torgue) is always there at all rpm. Turbo (supra/civic) seem little slow on first gear due to Turbine needs spin on certain high rpm in order to create boost horsepower= torgue?. I think both have there own weakness, but turbo can always be upgradeable and not sure much on SC since it's belted to pulley?

Here are some stuff I have to focus on when I did greddy T3-T4turbo on japanese car.

-MAF change to aftermarket MAF to trick the ECU otherwise check engine light will show at high boost.
-FMU (Fuel management unit) most turbo set up required (bypass the fuel line)
-Aftermarket Fuel injector easiest way to increase fuel flow/ or B&M fuel regulator.
-Full synthetic oil to help cool down that turbo
-Higher boost higher fuel octane 92+
-Proper tuning is a must (dyno)
-Piping location ( hate that part lol)
-Cast manifold is more durable than Iron? I used cast
-Turbo Piston
-Bolt on exhaust at less 3'' pipe works good on turbo.
-boost cage/air fuel cage/
-I dont know about wide band Oxygen sensor since mine works fine with aftermarket catylec convertor.
-turbo timer ( works good in hot weather)
-msd sparkplug wire/turbo ngk spark plug/msd 6a (Ignition system more spark for you buck)hehe


Well, I might miss something else but I think thats good for now.hehe I wish I can do more to add power on my Slk but I rather leave it bone stock. Cost a lot of money by just maintenance alone..heheh What is the best upgrade (horse power talk) for slk? I heard change to larger pulley?,etc... thanks

 

You're on the right track. Think even simpler.

Timing on the ECU could potentially be an issue, but there are also numerous aftermarket solutions one could use to address that (MSD, Electromotive, etc.)

Of course the best "kit" would be one with all the parts ready to bolt up and chips with new maps included. Such a thing including forged pistons & rods, upgraded fuel pump, injectors, the actual turbo(s), silicone connectors, lines, intercooler, oil supply & return plumbing, new chips (including R&D costs to create them), etc. would probably (I'm guessing) put the "off the shelf" cost of such a setup around $6k-$8k. Probably somewhere around 30-40 hours to install too - just a guesstimate.

 

A guy here in Adelaide scrapped the s/c on his 230 and replaced it with a custom intercooled turbo kit.

I have had a few runs against him and he killed me.

I'll try to get details.

 

Steve Johnson,

Here's a project for you. You wanted more power, right? I can install it for you and I also know people that can tune it for you. All you really need with this kit is bigger injectors from the Slk 32 and the tuner should dail in your air fuel ratio.

 

Here knowledge is not power, it is what the performance guys strive for. If that is what you consider power then you will have no friends when it comes time when complicated issues arrise with your car. Even if you have the most expiereince in the world MB cars are a different animal all together. With the knowledge around here unless you work with Jack Roush, know Roger Penske, or call Carroll Shelby on speed dial, your remarks will get you know where fast. Is not the joy of tuning sharing and learning.

Please pass along what your ideas are. TRADE secret! There are guys here who have been engineers longer than you have been alive. Now I have kept my big mouth quite for a long time with help from Dr Bruce/Dr Bazzle but unless you want to share head on over to the forums like Kia. South cali. Many of us South cali members here. Make us look good.

Biting my lip and surpressing the anger. I sound like Capt. Furious on Mystery Men/AKA Ben Stiller!! TRADE secrets. It is the Turbonator I bet!!!!!!!!!!!

So what is it going to be. South Cali spirit or west coast BS!

 

Here knowledge is not power, it is what the performance guys strive for. If that is what you consider power then you will have no friends when it comes time when complicated issues arrise with your car.

Well said.

 

what do you guys think about SpeedInnovations? can they reprogram the stock 320 ecu for boost? Or are they not that talented?

 

Are they still around?

My guess is no. I do not believe they have the necessary knowldge and talent to reprogram an ECU to that degree.

 

Speed Innovations, Powerchip, Upsolute, etc. have NEVER proven to give our beloved SLK's any gains. Ask Rasoul about Powerchip. No dyno's, no gains. That is a big PERIOD after that statement. I would even challenge any of those tuners/BSer's to show me the dyno sheets with pre and post runs!!!!!! Here I am boys. My email is steve872@hotmail.com and I am not holding my breath!!!! It is all BS!!!!!!!!!! They would have to use my car as I do HAVE DYNO SHEETS!!!!

 

eBay Motors: PERFORMANCE CHIP MERCEDES-BENZ SLK-CLASS 1994–2007!! (item 110205337403 end time Dec-19-07 14:22:31 PST)

Be our test pig

 

No engine modifications allowed in my country.. if it is legal i'd be one of the first to add a turbo!!

 

Hahaha, you guys are a crack-up. All right, since evidently nobody wants to actually do their own homework/research around here and wants all the answers spoon-fed to them, I'll bite this time. One of the ways to avoid lean operation is simply to take advantage of the fact that more injectors can deliver more fuel. Very simple. All you do is run an additional line and injector (or two) from the fuel rail (or tank, or other source) to the intake plenum.

I am familiar with this setup as created by Reeves Callaway on a couple of his early turbo setups where fuel was delivered by means of a "fifth injector" (for a 4-cylinder engine) or by a "9th and 10th injector" for an 8-cylinder engine. I imagine the same sort of setup could be fairly readily adapted to any vehicle.

As far as controlling it, his systems used a very basic (or primitive, depending on what word you want to use) micro controller which (I believe) was made by Saab. There are others commercially available including this guy:

RSR Additional Injector Controller

There are also systems like MegaSquirt, Electromotive Tec, Wolf 3D, Link, etc. if one wants to go that route.

Obviously the exact placement of the injector in the intake system will make some difference with respect to overall atomization and performance, but the bottom line is that you can very easily address the problem of additional fuel delivery requirements.

Using the same method, you can deliver H2O or other liquids to the cylinders (alcohols, etc.) Either water or alcohol helps with anti-knock index (there are other ways too) and obviously you don't want to just go mixing either into your fuel supply, requiring a separate delivery system.

Point is, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Turbocharging has been around a LOOOOOONG time and most of the issues are not new ones - someone has had to face them and there are lots of possible solutions out there. Do your homework guys - that's all I was trying to say before. I was trying to encourage a few resourceful individuals from looking for answers and devising methods for solving the problem, not just expecting people to hand you everything (I have little respect for that). Yes, forums like these are intended to help people, but it's like telling people to "use the search feature" - all I'm saying is fer cryin' out loud, do a little Googling first and exercise the gray matter a bit before crying for help and then getting indignant when people dare to ask what you've done to help YOURSELF first. Know what I'm saying?

Anyway, turbocharging is not that complex. The fundamental premises of it are very simple - one of the reasons I actually prefer it to supercharging. It takes energy that normally would just be wasted and dumped overboard and turns it into something useful, unlike a supercharger which is (by its very nature) parasitic.

There are also "turbo-supercharger" systems, but I think those are beyond the scope of discussion here (unless anyone is looking to do a LOT of fabrication and spend a tremendous amount of money). They have been used with some success on aircraft of WW2 and post-WW2 vintage, if anyone cares to dig a bit.

If I were considering building a turbo system for the SLK tomorrow, I would probably run two smaller turbos (one per bank) versus one large one (personal preference) with a full standalone EMS, negating the need for the sort of "additional injector" setup discussed above. Certainly this is not the only way, nor is it the cheapest, but ultimately I think it would be a good compromise between overall simplicity/reliability and performance. I would try to cut down on overall plumbing runs (weight) where possible and mount the intercooler accordingly. Some air ducting in the engine bay would probably be required. I would also consider things like an external oil cooler and upgraded cooling system (things often overlooked - turbos create a LOT of heat - more than one might think). There are also things to consider like damage to hoses and wiring looms due to the additional heat - how are these things going to be addressed? Heat shields? Insulators?

And then there are the choices like jacketed or non-jacketed turbos, sizing, piping sizes and bends, etc. There are many good resources out there for such things if anyone is interested.

 

There are also "turbo-supercharger" systems, but I think those are beyond the scope of discussion here (unless anyone is looking to do a LOT of fabrication and spend a tremendous amount of money). They have been used with some success on aircraft of WW2 and post-WW2 vintage, if anyone cares to dig a bit.

Actually, that has been discussed here before, but there are precious few that have the cash and expertise to work that kind of magic. We have had photos at least one car with a turbo feeding a blower.
As to your comment about the “turbo-supercharger”, that’s exactly what a “turbo” is, the term has been shortened to just turbo. Yes, that is taking the words very literally but words mean something, so as has been said before, get it right before you correct someone.
The above probably sounds a hell of a lot worse then it is meant to, and for that I apologize, it’s NOT meant as a put down.
As to aircraft engines, I am not aware of anything that reached production that is similar to a turbo feeding a mechanically driven supercharger.
I have heard of and/or seen two stage supercharging with an actual shift point where the pilot had to shift gears to get to the second or higher speed for the centrifugal supercharger. I have seen turbo compound engines where the turbocharger actually helped drive the crankshaft through a mechanical transmission. I have seen pretty much everything that has been used to increase the power of an aircraft engine (I live close enough to the Smithsonian to visit often and know some of the guys that work there). If you have information on that, I would be very interested in which production engine or aircraft you are talking about.
A turbocharger driving a mechanically driven supercharger is a VERY rare and custom beast; it isn’t done very often, and is even more rarely done very well. If you have solid information on such a beast that works well, and has worked for a reasonable period of time, you have some rare info indeed. Congratulations.

 

Running a "fifth injector" or a set of secondary injectors is a bandaide and not a very elegant one at all.

You would be better served to work with the existing fuel system, e.g. larger injectors, larger fuel pump, increased fuel pressure, etc.

 

Slacker,

Are you brain dead. Do you know how to use a search engine. Try it on the R170 side of Benzworld. Your post is some of the most obvious stuff I have seen and read. You do not fully understand that just about any car except MB has easy to access and modify ECU/EMS's. Even AEM makes a standalone EMS for BMW's for christ sake. Megasquirt and so many other products and fuel issues have been disscussed here. We have members here who drive cars professionally.

Just a few of the mod attempts in regards to turbos and SLK's have been disscused here over and over. Do you really think addittional injectors have not been discussed. This is your great insight. Complete BS my friend. Do a search under my user name and see all of the photos and info disscussed. Do NOT come on this board and act like idiots post here and make yourself into a auto pro who knows more than many very, very, very informed members here. Now if you are an enginner or have modified your 320 then post away with your results but until then your bone stock 320 signature says it all

Photos show some of the tuning efforts in regards to turbos, twin charging systems, the Brabus V-8 transplant program, and other stuff. You ideas have already been attempted and some members are in the process of really tackling the ECU issues on thier own. You are a typical member who talks the talk but even your signature says 2001 SLK320 bone stock! Talk the talk but have not even changed his OEM air filters. Pathetic BS my friend.

Reeves Callaway started his program with Chevrolet and had the info he needed straight from the source. There are so many "old School" ways to get more fuel but most of those methods will not work with our Bosch/Siemens VDO EMS's.

Most serious MB tuners realized that the SLK's were good for a pulley upgrade and knew the public demand for after market performance was not going to be cost feasible. Brabus, Renntech, and Kleeman I think offer ZERO performance upgrades for the SLK230's now and most only offer the pulley upgrade for the 32's. Kleeman offers the Kompressor for the 320's but that is about it. The MB electronics is the key and you offered ZERO new info on any area but it is the attitude that pisses me off. Extra injectors. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PIGGY back controllers. DUH!

If this was your "Trade Secrets" well let me be the 1st one in line to say you need to follow your own advice and search the R170 site and then maybe the internet but to come on here and tell us we need to do research when what you are talking about has been discussed years ago and been done, well, am I the only one who will not give you a free pass to come onto this forum and act like this.

For those who know me I am bitting my lip has hard as I can. New members who dole out advice better come up with more than your "Trade Secrets". I know I cannot be the only one who feels like telling you to FO but I bet I am the only to do it.

Dyno sheet posted is my last dyno ran. I have a 2003 SLK230 auto so 18% power train loss. 205rwhp/242bhp and 218rw lbs/258lbs. I may not know more than you about cars but at least I try and will contune tuning my 230 so if you keep your 320 bone stock then get that slow ass 3.2L out of my way!

 

Gosh Steve, you did well...I'm proud of you for controlling yourself...very nicely done!!!

Jeff
Ps...Slacker, he probably has stiches from biting his lip so hard!!

 

well....after hours of hours on the nett, e-mailing peoples and looking throu this thread, I think it's time to lay this turbo project on on the shelf. It's gonna be to expensive for me. The SLK is'nt a hot tuning project so there arent many aftermarked part for tuning this engine, so you need to custom made settnings to make it work.

Hey I'm just 20 years old and have other thing to use my money and time on. I'm saving up to buy a Subaru Impreza WRX STI 2005 modell, so I dont think I wanna wast alot on money on turning my SLK to an turbo car.

Thanks anyway guys for all your thought Hope some els will continue this project

 

That's very funny, all facts considered.

Very often the best solutions are the simplest. I've seen FAR too many turbo systems that people over-complicate.

BTW my last vehicle was a 944 turbo that put down over 400 rwhp, so I do have a little experience in this area. I have also personally owned one of the original Callaway turbo conversion kits for the same car, so I'm familar with his setup. I never said it was elegant, I just said it was one way to skin a cat.

As I said above, if I were going to do a conversion tomorrow (I'm not) I'd use a standalone EMS. My comments WRT Megasquirt, etc. were merely to illustrate the fact that there are many options out there for injector control, depending on the budget and performance goals of the end-user. I personally am not a huge fan of Megasquirt, but some people like it. . .

As far as integrating directly into the existing M.B. electronics and ECU, I completely agree with you that would be the most elegant solution, but it would take MANY hours of dedicated reverse-engineering and burning EPROMS, etc. to even begin to come close to making it work. R&D that is way beyond the scope of the average builder. . . I have no doubt that people are trying it, but without looking, I suspect that the relative unavailability of such solutions speaks enough about their successes - or lack thereof. Not that I don't appreciate their effort.

Please try to understand that many of my comments were directed at the "armchair ricer" types that dream of building big power but in the end, don't want to do ANY background research, put any thought into it and simply want to waltz into their local performance shop and plop down a few grand and then think they're "all that". I get very sick of those types of attitudes from people on this and other forums. I've much more respect for those that tinker and experiment, whether their solutions are the most novel or elegant or not.

My car stays stock because I know what a slippery slope this can turn into. Believe me. I had over 10 grand sunk into my 944 before it was unfortunately totalled. But the learning process was fun.

Also, to clarify, when I said "turbo-supercharger", I meant exactly that. I did not mean a fancy term that ultimately refers to simply turbocharging (duh). I was SPECIFICALLY referring to a two-stage system that uses a first-stage turbocharger AND a geared second stage supercharger. And yes, this was used on several aircraft including the P-47 Thunderbolt among others. Respectfully sir (and I mean that in earnest) do not patronize me and please do not use semantics to cover up talking out of your arse. I was referring to a multi-stage system. Yes, I have no doubt someone could do it, given enough time, money and metal stock to work with.

Just because YOU cannot accept the use of additional injectors as a solution does not make it any less viable. Neither is running larger injectors and different maps. Neither is increasing FPR pressure. Etc., etc. etc. All are options. Just because I happened to refer to one solution as a "trade secret" (which was tongue-in-cheek, having a little fun in case you missed it) you get your panties all in a wad and indignant. Christ man, lighten up. What were you expecting? A secret formula for alien fuel that magically increases or decreases stoich depending on what is needed at the time. Good god man!



Anyway, I have no doubt that this has been discussed here before. I suspect that at the end of the day most people will realize (as I did) that the SLK-320 is a fine automobile in its own right and can be left alone and enjoyed just fine as-is.

But some day, yes. . . I will tinker. It won't be for a while and it most certainly will not be an "off the shelf" kit even if one is available by then. But for now, I'm fine with being "bone stock". FWIW I test drove the SLK-230 and 320 side-by-side and opted for the 320, normally aspirated and all. It was a deliberate choice.

 

Also, to clarify, when I said "turbo-supercharger", I meant exactly that. I did not mean a fancy term that ultimately refers to simply turbocharging (duh). I was SPECIFICALLY referring to a two-stage system that uses a first-stage turbocharger AND a geared second stage supercharger. And yes, this was used on several aircraft including the P-47 Thunderbolt among others. Respectfully sir (and I mean that in earnest) do not patronize me and please do not use semantics to cover up talking out of your arse. I was referring to a multi-stage system. Yes, I have no doubt someone could do it, given enough time, money and metal stock to work with.

Of course, you are correct about the multi stage supercharging on most high performance radial engines. The centrifugal superchargers were built into the rear gearbox/crankcase of engines like the R-2800. A brain fart seems to have taken hold and prevented me from remembering that. For those interested you can look here: R-2800 Engine Exhibit
The centrifugal blower (supercharger) is in the blue section of photo # 6 and # 8 among others.
As to your point of using semantics to “cover my arse”, I don’t think so, as I said before words mean things.
There are things called turbo-superchargers, and there is two stage supercharging. They are in fact two different things aren’t they…..

 

Man!! This what I'm talking about (little spice will do) I love this forum... Post # 42 hit the bulleye!