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2002 E320 Wagon
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Discussion Starter #1
Happened yesterday for the first time.

2002 E320 Wagon, 82,XXXmi.

Car had been parked for an hour or so. Got in, car cranked strongly, but no fuel and/or spark. Waited, tried again. Same result. Went through the exercise several times. Walked away. Tried it 15mins later and the car started.

Then it happened again later in the evening....

I am thinking this is not the fuel pump check valve issue - extended cranking is not the symptom. Even with an extended crank period, it will not start. I thought perhaps CPS - but surely I would be seeing symptoms while running, not just starting?

Could the fuel pump relay be going bad? Where is the fuel pump relay? Is it a standard part or MBUSA only?

Thanks all!
 

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2001 E430 4matic
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Actually, seems more like CPS than any other thing you have in mind. If you think of it, when engine is still warm, you have starting problem till engine cools down for over an hour.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Actually, seems more like CPS than any other thing you have in mind. If you think of it, when engine is still warm, you have starting problem till engine cools down for over an hour.
So the CrankPS is only read during starting? How does the ECU derive firing sequence? Cam position sensor?
 

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'01-E320 & 02-ST2
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So the CrankPS is only read during starting? How does the ECU derive firing sequence? Cam position sensor?
Slow down, please.

You seem to be assuming that all Crank Sensor issues will manifest in the same way.

Now, to be fair, most often they start with a sudden cut out while driving. Engine's off, you're coasting to the curb (that also answers your question, right?). Sometimes the car will restart right away, sometimes it has to sit for a while.

However, sometimes the first symptom is that the car simply won't start. In a few cases, that's forever: the CPS has completely failed, and the car will not start again until it is changed. That's pretty rare in these cars, but it does happen. More often, it will start after a few tries.

Other times it's more of what you're describing.

And the most infuriating thing is that other than the first scenario, they are very, very intermittent. And to add to the frustration, the vast majority of the time you won't have any codes, either.

One thing that does seem clear: very, very few of these engines clear much over 100K miles without needing a Crank Sensor.

So, you can either theorize this thing to death, or eliminate a rather obvious potential cause, which won't cost much money or time. Indeed, the time you've spent discussing it and reading on the forum far outstrips the time necessary to change it.

Or you can start poking at other things, which is more guesswork than the Crank Sensor. The "could it be" trail is long and arduous, with many pitfalls and costly detours. Yes, there is a possibility that you may end up on it, but why START on it?

The least common denominator for your symptoms is the crank sensor. It's also the quickest, cheapest and easiest thing to change (at least of the running possibilities list). And you will absolutely eliminate it from being a possibility (as well as changing a part known to fail).

And if it's still not clear from the above, I would change the crank sensor if I owned your car.

Your methods, of course, may vary.

Good luck.
 

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2001 E430 4matic
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Thank you Greg for explaining this to OP before he goes after a major wild goose ...
Sometimes I get too tired to explain and honestly I love to explain more but it is not always possible due to my other life responsibilities and commitments.
 

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2002 E320 Wagon
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Discussion Starter #6
The least common denominator for your symptoms is the crank sensor. It's also the quickest, cheapest and easiest thing to change (at least of the running possibilities list).
Thanks guys.

I'll go ahead and order one - looks like a very easy job.

My reluctance (and need to diagnose) was because I didn't know if the symptoms were indicative of CPS expiry or not. Thanks for straightening that out.
 

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99 E430, 01 E430 Sport, 00 SL500
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When I replaced the CPS recently, I had the hood up in its vertical position. I really hated to get my hair accidentally rubbed against the hood lining.
 

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When I replaced the CPS recently, I had the hood up in its vertical position. I really hated to get my hair accidentally rubbed against the hood lining.
That's step one in the DIY I did in the stickies... ;)
 

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Thank you Greg for explaining this to OP before he goes after a major wild goose ...
Sometimes I get too tired to explain and honestly I love to explain more but it is not always possible due to my other life responsibilities and commitments.
Lord, I sympathize with you, believe me. It's not really the noob's fault, they don't want to take the time to read through things and use the search feature -- they just want a quick answer, because that's the way things are today -- but it's still a drag. (In a similar vein I have probably typed "check codes" and "complete your profile" thousands of times, too, and it's as basic as it gets.)

Much as I dislike many of the behind-the-scenes things about BW, the W210 forum here is probably the most comprehensive source for information about the car -- and you don't have to ever post to get at it all. ;)

I'm not sure if you've ever seen it, but if you could use a break and a smile, this is a thread I did several years ago (I think it was before I became a mod) and it's still fun to read through it. There is a post about halfway through it that made me cry it was so funny, but you have to read it in context to get why it's so hilarious.

Anyway, thanks for your input on the forum, you seem to have a good grasp of the issues about which you've posted. If I get back to NY, we'll have to sit down someplace and say hi in person.
 

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2001 E430 4matic
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Anyway, thanks for your input on the forum, you seem to have a good grasp of the issues about which you've posted. If I get back to NY, we'll have to sit down someplace and say hi in person.
It will be my pleasure to meet you in person. I have a very high respect for you for helping the members with their car problems in this tough economical times.
 

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E420 1997
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757 Posts
Lord, I sympathize with you, believe me. It's not really the noob's fault, they don't want to take the time to read through things and use the search feature -- they just want a quick answer, because that's the way things are today -- but it's still a drag. (In a similar vein I have probably typed "check codes" and "complete your profile" thousands of times, too, and it's as basic as it gets.)

Much as I dislike many of the behind-the-scenes things about BW, the W210 forum here is probably the most comprehensive source for information about the car -- and you don't have to ever post to get at it all. ;)

I'm not sure if you've ever seen it, but if you could use a break and a smile, this is a thread I did several years ago (I think it was before I became a mod) and it's still fun to read through it. There is a post about halfway through it that made me cry it was so funny, but you have to read it in context to get why it's so hilarious.

Anyway, thanks for your input on the forum, you seem to have a good grasp of the issues about which you've posted. If I get back to NY, we'll have to sit down someplace and say hi in person.
I'm an old newb and read a lot since it's a favorite pastime of mine...but I can't figure out this sites search function. Search forums when on w210 and the results seem to be everything except what was requested!

Could just be old and stupid...
 

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2002 E320 Wagon
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41 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Well, I am glad that I was able to reinforce opinions of newbies.

I ordered the CPS from Autohaus. $46 plus shipping. Install was pretty easy; sticky for this procedure is well illustrated. It took ~20mins. Most of my time was spent messing with the CPS connector. I removed all the hoses as recommended in the sticky - probably wouldn't do that next time round. For a first timer, it did make seeing what I was doing somewhat possible. The 1/4" hex socket mated to the Torx fastener perfectly. Having a stubby ratchet (and a nut driver) makes this part easy.

My no-start problem had been very intermittent. Only occurred twice. Since the replacement last week, it has not resurfaced.
 

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E420 1997
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Well, I am glad that I was able to reinforce opinions of newbies.

I ordered the CPS from Autohaus. $46 plus shipping. Install was pretty easy; sticky for this procedure is well illustrated. It took ~20mins. Most of my time was spent messing with the CPS connector. I removed all the hoses as recommended in the sticky - probably wouldn't do that next time round. For a first timer, it did make seeing what I was doing somewhat possible. The 1/4" hex socket mated to the Torx fastener perfectly. Having a stubby ratchet (and a nut driver) makes this part easy.

My no-start problem had been very intermittent. Only occurred twice. Since the replacement last week, it has not resurfaced.
Dave, I presume your car cranked (starter engaged) but wouldn't start before the cps change, correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Dave, I presume your car cranked (starter engaged) but wouldn't start before the cps change, correct?
The no starting was very intermittent, over maybe a 7 day period. Usually, it cranked right up. Maybe 90% of the time.

Since the CPS change, I'm at 100%.....so fingers crossed.
 
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