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Discussion Starter #1
I plan to build two PTO winchs, using worm gear reducers, front and rear, for my 416 DoKa.
I checked the old Werner manual, but i could not figure it out, what the Werner F64 winch's reducing ratio is.

I will appreciate your help.
 

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I think if you are custom building a winch for your Mog you are going about it from the wrong direction. I would say first you need to determine the following:
1) PTO output speed, 540 or 1000 nominal? What real RPM will you modulate the engine speed to?
2) Drum diameter?
3) Length of cable and number of layers that will take on the drum?
4) Pulling power required (at bare or full drum)?
5) Line speed when pulling?

Then you can calculate what the reduction (and power/torque requirements) of the worms should be.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
1- PTO speed: 540/1000 selectable. Engine RPM: It depends.
2- Drum length: Same length as Werner F64. Drum diameter: A little bit smaller than Werner F64.
3- Lenght of rope: 15-25 meter.
4- 8 ton at bare drum, 4 ton at last turn of the steel rope.
5- Pulling speed: It depends on situation.

I plan to build it approximate dimensions of Werner F64.
Yes, it should be calculated, but there is a physical working sample in front of us.

I just wanted to learn worm gear ratio of W F64 before buying a reducer.
 

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1988 U1300L RW1 Working gears Dual Tanks AC Rigged for Camping Plus: 91 F250 HD 4x4
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1- PTO speed: 540/1000 selectable. Engine RPM: It depends.
2- Drum length: Same length as Werner F64. Drum diameter: A little bit smaller than Werner F64.
3- Lenght of rope: 15-25 meter.
4- 8 ton at bare drum, 4 ton at last turn of the steel rope.
5- Pulling speed: It depends on situation.

I plan to build it approximate dimensions of Werner F64.
Yes, it should be calculated, but there is a physical working sample in front of us.

I just wanted to learn worm gear ratio of W F64 before buying a reducer.
I would judge that choprboy had a better overall grasp of the situation. As in all things Mog, the basic answer is It Depends. Werner configures the F64 all sorts of ways, depending on PTO speed, and line pull desired. One thing I would very much caution you on is the increased line pull on the first wrap, if you build a reduced diameter drum. A 25% reduction in drum diameter will result in a 33% increase in line pull, all other things being equal. Winch work is inherently potentially dangerous; don't add to the risks unawares.

My truck has an A50 hydraulic winch, 11000# first wrap, 9000# last wrap, using 200' of 1/2" steel cable, 4 wraps. My truck came to me without a cable (corrosion damage to the original), and I did a lot of research on winching and cables, before spending the extra $ on a 1/2"swaged cable, with a 34000# break. I now have 3x over winch pull, which is an industry standard for recovery work (NOT valid for hoisting). I might add that many amateur/ recreational winches do not meet this standard, and I would not either, if I used regular 1/2" wire (26000# break).

Your specs come out a bit unusual, based on my experience and research. 16000# is hefty, and a bit above the max configuration for an F64, using 540 rpm PTO, and 10m / min. In this configuration, they also spec 32 m x 14.3mm steel cable. At 9/16" equivalent std. steel wire, you will have 2x over working load. I don't find a last wrap line pull, but with such a short length (15-25m), I would expect it to be greater than 8000#. And, I do trust you are engineering for both torque and force on your winch? Further, I trust that you are incorporating an overload safety device? I strongly suspect that the PTO could easily generate sufficient torque to break a cable, before the engine stalled, so that safety requires operator anticipation (dump the PTO clutch in time).

Now, I am not clairvoyant, and don't just pull stuff out of my a**. The Werner info is to found on this link:


It is in German (try Google translate), and by no means complete, but it provides a good starting point. What I do not see is the (overall) reduction ratio. This material is not full-on engineering specs, and no drawings. The Werner F64 brochure does have the basic operating specs, if you scroll down. You will need to lay out your parameters exactly, and then back into the reduction ratio for whatever you build.

Since I was going there, I pulled out the three spec sheets, see attached:

2617199



2617201




Hope this helps.

Lee
 

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1976 406 w/ backhoe and dozer blade, a small collection of implements too
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Lots of good info here but one main thing to consider is that what you are dreaming up has no reverse.

This is really important if you manage to pull hard enough to stall the system or you winch in and digest something or winch up against something you cannot back off, you are forced to cut the line which is under extreme tension and leads to scary outcomes. Been there, seen that.

You're plan is cool but I strongly suggest you get a winch with revers. Hydraulic winches are the bee knees.

Perhaps build your winch but power it with a reversible hydraulic motor. If you don't have hydraulics on your mog, there are plenty of hydraulic pumps out there that can be mounted to the PTO. Plumbing up a hydraulic system is pretty straight forwards. Not much research to do to learn enough to create a simple system.

Food for thought.
 

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If you put a hex on the other end of the worm gear shaft you could disengage the PTO if things needed to be backed off and wind it back out manually with a spanner perhaps? It wouldn't be quick but it would be a good addition to get you out of trouble if needed?
 

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1976 406 w/ backhoe and dozer blade, a small collection of implements too
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That is a very good idea.

With a worm drive you at least know it will not snap back at you, or at least not very much.

I think that should be a design feature in TA10KU's winches, which I'm looking forwards to seeing be created.
 
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