wishing for a hybrid ML

DelJ - 3/27/2005 8:20 AM
It is the new advanced diesels that are unproven and full of hype.

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DelJ, I disagree and so do many others. Here's the percentage of diesels sold in a market where Mercedes offers both gas and diesel versions.

diesel market share
=================
Sprinter 100%
Vito V-class 97%
M-class 88%
G-class 67%
E-class 58%
Vaneo van 56%
C-class 55%
A-class 47%
S-class 40%
smart 35%
CLK 0%
SLK 0%
SL 0%

I can't comment on mainland Europe diesel prices because it doesn't affect me so I don't care but here in the UK we pay a heavy premium for buying and running a diesel car.

On average a diesel engined car costs close to $2,000 more than petrol, that's even on a Ford Focus. The fuel itself costs 10 cents a litre more and costs about $1.60 a litre. Road tax is $10 more, Income Tax on a company provided diesel car is more than on petrol. Yet it is predicted that more than 50% of cars sold in the UK in the first 3 months of this year will be diesel. Why? Diesel engines can give 30% better economy, they are longer lasting and just as refined as petrol.

Saying that diesel engines are rubbish now because they were in the 1980's is like saying that PCs are rubbish now because the were slow big and basic in the 1980s. Do yourself a favour and have a drive in a C or E class diesel if your local dealer has one.

Americans drive big thirsty petrol V8s because they don't have an incentive not to. Our incentive is 80% tax on fuel.

DelJ, Your evaluation of a diesel engine is falling a little short, today no other engine in practical use offers higher conversion of fuel energy into mechanical energy than a Diesel engine and further more there is ample room for continual improvement in the conversion rate.
Hybrid cars are no new development, the first cars were electric and with the advent of the IC engine a lot of manufacturers produced Hybrid vehicles in the US and Europe at the beginning of the 1900’s.

Hybrids take advantage of two factors, conservation of energy by recovering some of the Kinetic energy and storing it in accumulators which is ideal in stop ago conditions, the second fact is that vehicles are overpowered for average cruising conditions, the extra power being there for quicker acceleration purposes, Hybrids take advantage of that fact by using smaller engines with the subsequent fuel savings and calling for the electric motor as helpers for acceleration or power demands on different ratios depending on several conditions.

Some people point to Diesel/Electric trains and heavy off the road vehicles as examples of Hybrids economy but in reality the reason is power transmission, to get a ten thousand ton train going would kill a typical clutch or torque converter coupler in no time, for that reason electric motors are used, just to get the thing moving, there is no fuel savings for using the combination, in fact there is s small loss of the Diesel engine energy lost by the generator, resistance and back to mechanical energy by the E motors since none achieve 100% even after factoring mechanical inefficiencies if a straight mechanical drive was used.
MAN/White just unveiled a couple of years ago a Diesel engine in the 30,000HP + range for marine use that broke 50% efficiency range, a remarkable milestone.
When speaking of Heavy continuous duty a non existing term in the automobile world there are no energy or fuel savings in the same sense as driving a little light Hybrid car, the closest analogy being if a Hybrid vehicle started pulling a heavy trailer up hill continuously at high rate, in no time the battery energy will be drained and the small main engine will have to overwork in a diminishing curve.
Diesel advocates are looking for that heavier duty availability with the fuel savings coming from higher and higher efficiencies.
Each system has its merits and advantages, the lack of diesel popularity in the US today is due to the unavailability of clean diesel (on average 500ppm of Sulfur in the US vs. 50ppm in Europe) that is not compatible with the new injection systems and NOX and particulate recovery systems and ever increasing emission standards, however they are 95% cleaner than the last generation, on average 30% more fuel efficient than a comparable gas engine, smooth , quiet and lighter, they offer the HP and torque of the big Iron engines of the early 70’s at a fraction of fuel and emissions. VW is racing diesel cars Vs gas engines and is very competitive.
One of the top engines for 2005.

http://subscribers.wardsauto.com/microsites/Newsarticle.asp?newsarticleid=2737207&srid=10088&instanceid=55175&pageid=9608&magazineid=1004&siteid=26

http://

I completely agree that diesel engines offer more economy. My objections were to the slowness, noise, vibration and smoke. Even the improved E300D of 1990's was still slow and clatters loudly after a few years. The latest diesel engines may or may not fix all this, but the past for diesels has been nothing to crow about.

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You need to go to your local MBZ dealer and evaluate the E320CDI. You will be amazed. In fact, you could probably test drive one and not even know it was a diesel if you didn’t see the badge on the trunk lid. The engine noise and vibration are well muted. Even under full-throttle acceleration, there is no smoke and the engine sound is very pleasing, only surpassed by the G-forces you will feel as you are pushed back into your seat under the acceleration that comes darn close to that of the E500, all while getting somewhere between 50 and 100% better MPG.

My only complaints are that it does lack some throttle response at highway speeds (70-90mph range) that you feel with the E500. Also, the lack of a 4Matic version is a disappointment. Finally, diesel fuel is not as readily available on every street corner like gasoline. Otherwise, I see no real reason not to choose the CDI if I were buying an E-Class, unless of course I wanted the AMG version (and rumor has it that there is an AMG diesel coming in the near future).

My other big gripe is with all the nonsense one hears from the diesel crowd, such as less maintenance just because a gas engine requires new spark plugs every 100,000 miles. They seem to forget that diesel engines require more frequent oil changes. You can count even more maintenance for the new hi-tech diesels engines.

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As for oil changes, they E320CDI is programmed for more frequent oil changes than the MBZ gasoline engines: every 10K miles vs. 13K miles. Otherwise, the service schedules are the same. As for the high-tech features, the only component that concerns me is the variable-vane turbo charger. Anything that is exposed to exhaust gases is destined to fail. Otherwise, there are no more high tech items specific to the CDI engines.

Like I said, you need to go drive one, then come back and let us know if you still have the same opinions.

- RODNEY

rudeney - 4/4/2005 11:02 AM

...and rumor has it that there is an AMG diesel coming in the near future.

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Ahhhhh, Rodney. Checked with some AMG freaks and they say there were lots of AMG diesels already. Was news for me too. The first ones were based on the OM616 and OM617, starting with W115, W460 (first G-wagen series, 1979-1990), W123, C123 etc. Here is the more recent C30 CDI AMG:


<B>
Mercedes-Benz C30 CDI AMG
0-100 km/h (0-62.5 mph): 6.8 seconds
combined fuel economy: 31 MPG</B>