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1997 SL 500 w/Pano, 1999 CLK 320
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661 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today I got the car out of storage after a long (6 month ) winter.
The good news: It ran great.
The bad news:....after driving for a half hour I noticed a small leak from the driver's side windshield header.
No other leaks and the windows and roll bar work fine.

Should I:
-Wait to see if the leak continues...after all it sat for six month (during which time I cycles the roll bar)?

-If I need to call top Hydraulics do I replace just the 2 windshield headers or all the cylinders?

Thanks
 

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1989 300SE 247k+ miles
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4,765 Posts
1) a leak is a leak. It's not a leak that was there while it sat and is now not going to leak because you're using it.

2) replace them all, esp at the cost of having them rebuilt by Klaus. While the ones you're referencing are traditionally the first to go, they are the first to go. expect the others to follow.

At least those are my opinions based on experiences.
 

· Registered
1997 SL500 - VIN WDBFA67F8VF151031 and 2011 E350
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70 Posts
I am nearly finished reinstalling all eleven of the cylinders on a 97 SL500 like yours: here are some of the things that I have learned:

1) Take snapshots of everything you can regarding the installed configurations of every cylinder before you remove it. You will be removing and reinstalling much of the interior of the car. You will not remember which clips and pins go where, or the order in which they need to be installed. Write down everything you do, step by step, so you can reinstall in the reverse order. Some things need to be done in a specific order for convenience; otherwise they may interfere with other operational steps. Label each hydraulic line with masking tape. A few can be reattached incorrectly, and if you do so, you will have a devil of a time trying to sort things out at reassembly time.

2) Be very careful not to lose any mounting parts. Plug all holes with paper towels where stuff can fall. I neglected to plug a small hole beneath the lower mounting bolt for the main cylinder. I thought there was no way that huge bolt could fall through that tiny hole, but it did. I could not retrieve it with my magnetic tool or with magnets attached to my flexible drain reamer. I was fortunate to be able to buy a replacement bolt from my dealer for $50. I'm still waiting for it. It would have cost a lot more than $50 to have a machinist manufacture a duplicate bolt. I also lost a 6mm pin and am waiting to get one from Germany, through my dealer. I searched diligently for the pin when I lost it, to no avail. E-clips are notorious for flying away and disappearing forever. Buy a few 6-mm e-clips on eBay now. Do not be surprised if you end up needing a couple of them. Also buy a metric e-clip inserter tool. It will probably save you a couple hours of misery. Tape the e-clip to the tool with masking tape each time you try to install one.

3) You will need a set of 1/4-inch drive torx sockets. Also, a magnetic retriever tool. Very large (9 to 12-inch) tweezers may also be helpful.

4) Klaus, who will rebuild the cylinders, is very helpful when you run into problems. He usually responds to urgent emails. His excellent detailed instructions for the removal and installation for each of the cylinders may not be absolutely clear, and his pictures may not exactly represent your model. You will probably have to improvise occasionally. You will also encounter a few seemingly impossible situations, but everything can eventually be worked out.

5) While you are at it, take the tank off the reservoir and clean out all the sediment. Then flush your hydraulic system a couple times to eliminate the 20-year-old fluid and sediment in the lines.

6) Use lots of rags to keep any fluid from dripping into the car. It will take a lot of effort to get rid of the smell. Clean up every drop of fluid you find. Then wipe up with Greased Lightning or some other strong detergent to eliminate odor.

7) A tiny flashlight is indispensible.

8) If you tackle the whole job at once, you won't have to go back and do a similar job another half a dozen times in the next few years.

9) Every time you get discouraged, keep in mind that if you take the car to your dealer, he will be glad to fix the whole hydraulic system (excluding the roll bar) for $5000 to $6000. If you do it yourself, it will cost you about 1/10th as much, but you have to spend a few days of labor.

10) Odds are probably about 50:1 that your 'no other leaks' comment is extremely optimistic. I thought I had one leak, but I found eleven, including two that the dealer had replaced less than four years ago for the previous owner for about $1000. Forum members tend to agree with Klaus that his rebuilt cylinders will easily outlast OEM cylinders. Also keep in mind that OEM cylinders might already be deteriorating while they are on the shelf at a dealership. I forgot to write it down, but as I recall, the two OEM replacement cylinders that were installed for the previous owner in 2013 were factory date stamped around 2001.
 

· Outstanding Contributor
2005 SL600, (2) 2003 SL500
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4,604 Posts
If I need to call top Hydraulics do I replace just the 2 windshield headers or all the cylinders?
I suppose the answer to that question would be dependent upon a number of factors.

If you have owned the car for no more than a few years, is it possible the previous owner replaced some of the hydraulics? Will you be paying someone to do the work? If you do the work yourself, what is your attitude toward performing it -- do you despise it? Enjoy it? Are you among the majority of Americans who does not have $2000 spare cash? Do you expect to keep this car for many years? If another hydraulic leak were to develop in a few months, would dealing with it be a great imposition or just a minor annoyance? How often do you cycle the top"

Nobody on this forum knows the answers to those questions but you. If it were me, I would service the two front lock cylinders and no others at this time.
 

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1997 SL 500 w/Pano, 1999 CLK 320
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661 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I've had the car for three years. It has low miles but the second owner let it slide...when I got it was sound but needed TLC.
I doubt if any work has ever been done on the system.

I don't use the top a lot, a few times a year. Mostly, I keep it down, I have a large garage and the winters here are no place for a powerful RWD car, so I use it as a summer/fall toy.
However, I'm the kind of guy that likes things to work. I won't have fun on a trip if I don't think the top will work if I need it. last thing I need is to be in the middle of Montana with the top half up.

I've seen the rave reviews about Klaus...no problem with his service or pricing.
But, I'm not much of a mechanic. Real basic stuff is okay, but I 'm afraid of causing more troubles, so I don't think I have much business rooting around in a complex German car.

The two indy MB/BMW specialists say they have done some work like this, but I really am not inclined to spend their hourly rates to practice at my expense. The dealer.....last time I was in there it took them two hours to find a fault...a blown fuse...that they missed.
 

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1997 SL500 - VIN WDBFA67F8VF151031 and 2011 E350
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70 Posts
The front top latches are a pretty easy $100 DIY fix. You might have to buy a set of torx drivers or some other tool that you can get at any automotive store. The big benefit is that you will no longer have hydraulic oil dripping onto your left arm and onto the seat or dripping down into the $300 mirror. The other cylinders generally drip down and out onto the garage floor in front of the rear wheels. But they will eventually make the interior smell like a '50s vintage American car with crankcase blowby, which I really dislike. I have spoiled myself with about ten new Mercedes in the last 20 years, and I am obsessive about trying to make everything look new and work properly. My SL500 is definitely a hobby car, but it is also my driver. Its only cosmetic anomaly is a 16-inch one-piece black antenna instead of the OEM retractable nightmare that had been unsuccessfully replaced with a Hirschmann that the original owner could not get to work either. When I first obtained the car I took it to a body shop and the manager pointed out that the center wheel hubs were not 'authentic' because someone had painted them white to match the body. So I replaced them ASAP for $25.

My next dilemma is to decide what to do about the slightly crazed finish on the wood steering wheel which came from the factory as a $700 option, according to the MSRP sticker. That rivals the $950 Xenon headlights which I really like. In my mind, the craziest option is heated seats. The car was originally purchased by a doctor in West Palm Beach, a location that I don't usually associate with heated seats.
 

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Silver 2001 SL500, White 2006 Infiniti QX56
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66 Posts
I'm going to agree with bobterry on this one...
It ~is~ a pretty easy fix for the two cylinders in the windshield top, and Klaus has a pretty quick turn-around on the rebuilt cylinders...
I had the same problem when I got my car - bad leak on front top left cylinder - saturated my pants with hydraulic oil the first time I tried the top release button... :-(

Anyway, inspected all the other cylinders when I finally got the hardtop off and rear cover unlocked, and all others looked good with no drips...
So it was just a business decision to let them be for now...
They're always in the back of my mind as knowing they'll need to be done at some point in the future, but over a year later, no issues, and the top works perfect...

Do the fronts for $100 (Klaus rebuilds) and a couple of hours time, and worry about the other cylinders when they become an issue...

Should add, yes, the leak is not going to go away, so get it fixed.. You'll be sooo much happier when working on other things on the car, when the top opens and closes properly first...
 

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2000 SL320, 2001 CLK320
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2,382 Posts
3 years ago I took the plunge and had Klaus repair all the cylinders and I replaced the soft top at the same time - took me a few days and now it is such a pleasure, everything works all of the time come rain or sun:grin
 

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1997 SL 500 w/Pano, 1999 CLK 320
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661 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I would be glad to do that, I'm having trouble finding a local shop with experience with the job.

It would be nice if I could get it done without costing more than the car is worth!

Klaus at Top Hydraulics recommended doing all 11, but again, finding someone to do the job is proving difficult.
 

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1997 SL 500 w/Pano, 1999 CLK 320
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661 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have and he doesn't have the time.
He did recommend a shop in the Tacoma/Puyallup area...but he can't recall the name...I can't seen to catch a break!

Anyone here know what it might be?
 

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2002 SL500 Silver Arrow, 2001 SL600
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1,073 Posts
if you are only doing the front two - I promise you can do them yourself without much difficulty. Between the TH instructions and the countless people on this forum that have done and documented the job, you can have the front two done in under two hours. And that includes having no clue before you start, bathroom breaks, photos, notes, bagging parts, and stopping to play air guitar to the good songs that come on the radio.
 

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1997 SL 500 w/Pano, 1999 CLK 320
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661 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Ceta4zng...thanks. :) :) I'm beginning to have a sense of humor failure.

Klaus seems to be pretty adamant about doing all at once, but I'd certainly like to do just what needs doing.

Any other opinions on doing the two vs. the eleven?
 

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2015 ML350, 2010 ML350, 1999 CLK 320 (1992 500 SL gone, 2011 ML550 gone, C320 wagon gone
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629 Posts
I would start with rebuilding the two front locks and see if anything else leaks. As said above these two ones are easy to remove and put back and would not cost you much even if you get a mechanic to do it for you. There is no question that the other cylinders will eventually start leaking too but you may have a year or more enjoying your car before it happens or it may happen quickly.
I replaced all my cylinders one after the others as they started leaking on me over a period of 2 years.
By the way not operating the top often is actually not a good thing. It is better to open and close the top on a periodic basis in order to keep all the components (cylinders, pump, etc...) in optimum condition.
 

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2002 SL500 Silver Arrow, 2001 SL600
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Ceta4zng...thanks. :) :) I'm beginning to have a sense of humor failure.

Klaus seems to be pretty adamant about doing all at once, but I'd certainly like to do just what needs doing.

Any other opinions on doing the two vs. the eleven?
My suggestion for only doing two was based on me sensing (perhaps incorrectly) your apprehension for doing all 11 at once. And I based that on your inquiries and seemed intention to find an indy to do it.

I bought my car when it was 14 years old and 102k miles and the driver side windshield cylinder leaking. Confident in my DIY, skills, tools, and workspace, I figured if one was leaking it was worth addressing all at the same time. I cycle the top as often as possible. I will put it down for my 8 mile drive home from the office and put it up the next morning when I leave the house - so I figured additional failure of other seals was imminent.

That said, if I were to do it again, I would pay the extra money and do the core swap. Take one cylinder out and immediately put the refurbed one in. It seems to me this would cut significant time off the project by simplifying the documentation and bagging and tagging to one cylinder at a time. I would have had mine done in a single weekend working that way. Granted, it would have taken most of the weekend, but one and done.

My suggestion would be to do the core swap all at once - and be done with it for as long as you own the car.

But if you are not ready for a large, involved, sometimes stressful DIY project at this point - or you are not intending to keep the car much longer - I would suggest small steps and do the front two to gain some confidence.

Way down on the list would be to find an indy to do it for you. My sense of that is a guy coming to this forum to learn how to do the job, and then charging you a multiple of the cost of a TH rebuild. Perhaps I could have found an indy with experience doing this - but I knew they couldn't care about my car as much as I do and I would have to be explaining a four-figure bill to my wife (never fun). So for less than the cost of the front 2 done at an indy, I have all 11 done for good.

Bottom line is - it all depends on what you are comfortable with. The beauty of owning an older beauty is that all the issue have been experienced, fixed, and documented...by many. So while this is a bear of a job to DIY. Many, many of us have already done it and are standing by to offer help, suggestions and support.
 
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