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Premium Member
2012 E350 CGI Avant Garde Sport
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Discussion Starter #1
I don't have a dog in this fight, but....

why was the Grand Edition an S500 and not the top of the line S600?


Just curious.....
 

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1998 W140 S420
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271 Posts
Yea, but, what is there in a grand edition that you dont already get in the 600? its just a 600 like w140 w/out the v12 i guess
 

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1999 S600 Sedan, 1999 S600 w/ 4-pl seating, 1995 S600 Coupe, 2-1992 600SEL's, 2002 ML55, 1998 SL600
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2,423 Posts
Uhhh, no. Not quite.

The V12 was limited in production, cost about $40k more than the next (lower) model, the S500, and MB was ready to retire the M120 engine in favor of the lower output 5.5-liter v12 that was found in the w220 body. The M120 was phased out due to weight, emissions, and costly production expenses.

Meanwhile, US car dealerships needed some product to sell, and seeing how the W220 wasn't due out until late 1999 as a MY 2000 model, that left dealers with nothing to sell but the w140, so they spiffed it up with the 'limited edition' Grand Edition, 600 units worth, with SOME of the features only available in the S600.
 

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'94 S600 Sedan, '97 S600 Sedan, etc
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240 Posts
Actually, the GE gained nothing from the S600 other than the bucket seats and a wooden steering wheel

The GE lacks:

reclining rest seats
ADS suspension
full leather interior (GE has MB-Tex door panels and dash, etc)
suede headliner
ESP (GE still has ASR only)
BAS (Brake Assist)

And so much more. People often have the misconception than the GE is just a V8 S600 but it doesn't even come close.

As far as why the 600 isn't labeled "GE": well its already "the" Grand Edition, it just doesn't show it off.
 

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98 S500
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287 Posts
Uhhh, no. Not quite.

The V12 was limited in production, cost about $40k more than the next (lower) model, the S500, and MB was ready to retire the M120 engine in favor of the lower output 5.5-liter v12 that was found in the w220 body. The M120 was phased out due to weight, emissions, and costly production expenses.

Meanwhile, US car dealerships needed some product to sell, and seeing how the W220 wasn't due out until late 1999 as a MY 2000 model, that left dealers with nothing to sell but the w140, so they spiffed it up with the 'limited edition' Grand Edition, 600 units worth, with SOME of the features only available in the S600.
Actually, the pre-facelift S600 W220s (MY 2000-2002) featured a 5.8-liter V12. The 5.5-liter did not come until the facelift for MY 2003.
 

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1993 300SEL (Sold) 2007 X5
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I would imagine because the S500 sold far more than the S600 in the US (and other markets) therefore it was chosen to be the most saleable model for the final year.
 

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Wait so whats the difference of ASR and ESP? I know one of them is also a rare option.
ASR, aka Traction Control, stops wheel spin when too much throttle is applied. It uses the ABS sensors to see if the rear wheels are spinning faster than both of the fronts.

ESP, aka Stability Control, uses the ABS sensors plus accelerometers to detect when a car is going into a spin or slide and can apply braking to just one wheel to pull the car back in line. It implies that brake assist is also present in order to do this.

Early ASR systems on carburetor equipped cars would cut the ignition to reduce power to the rear wheels which resulted in backfires. It wasn't popular. Second generation systems would cut off the injectors. This was also a bit brutal. Current systems with electronic throttles, like the W140 pioneered, will back the throttle off and behave much better.

ESP needs a lot of computing power so didn't appear until the mid 90's. Invented by Bosch, MB was one of the first to take it up.
 

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1991 Mercedes Benz 300E, 179K, stock, daily driver
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ASR, aka Traction Control, stops wheel spin when too much throttle is applied. It uses the ABS sensors to see if the rear wheels are spinning faster than both of the fronts.

ESP, aka Stability Control, uses the ABS sensors plus accelerometers to detect when a car is going into a spin or slide and can apply braking to just one wheel to pull the car back in line. It implies that brake assist is also present in order to do this.

Early ASR systems on carburetor equipped cars would cut the ignition to reduce power to the rear wheels which resulted in backfires. It wasn't popular. Second generation systems would cut off the injectors. This was also a bit brutal. Current systems with electronic throttles, like the W140 pioneered, will back the throttle off and behave much better.

ESP needs a lot of computing power so didn't appear until the mid 90's. Invented by Bosch, MB was one of the first to take it up.
thanks a lot all I could find was the meaning, I wanted the history of it too :)
 

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1999 S600 Sedan, 1999 S600 w/ 4-pl seating, 1995 S600 Coupe, 2-1992 600SEL's, 2002 ML55, 1998 SL600
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Geekhou05: I stand corrected. I believe the detuned version found in the w220 was only producing 365hp, whatever the liter size was, that the 5.5 liter version in the '03 and upwards was turbocharged, producing upwards of 450 hp?
 

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1994 S500 Sedan
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1,214 Posts
Both the 2002 SL500 and SL600 were available in Silver Arrow form and both the 2005 G500 and G55 AMG were available in GE form and it would've been nice of MB to offer the GE in both S500 and S600 form too. After all the GE did offer differentiated wheels, door sills, floor mats, special monotone interior and special wood, all of which WAS NOT available on the S600.

BUT THE REAL QUESTION IS: What's the deal with the HIGHLY RARE 1998 MODEL YEAR “GE” that had everything the GE had, including price, except for the door sills and floor mats!? I saw one in person at MBM many (6+) years ago and swore it was a GE, until the salesperson said he too was shocked to learn it was not (it had the factory AMG Monoblocks, special monotone interior, special wood, wood steering wheel, etc., all from the factory).

Does anyone know about these rare 1998 “GE’s”? Why they were built, why they were never marketed, how many were built, etc.?
 

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1991 Mercedes Benz 300E, 179K, stock, daily driver
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Does anyone know about these rare 1998 “GE’s”? Why they were built, how many were built, etc.?
Well it could have just been a look a like with the owner trying to fool others its rare and then he cashed in when the dealer thought it was a GE, it was a 98 and 98-99 w140's are the same as we know... I also did a search on google with many keywords and couldn't find one place where it said 1998 s500 grand edition, well I found one but the s500 was gold :D
 

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1994 S500 Sedan
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It was in fact a "Grand Edition", but without the branding, if that makes any sense. The strange thing is that MBM is corporate owned and the salesperson stated it was a trade-in from an MBUSA employee (apparently there's an employee car program / discount), but he didn’t realize it wasn’t a 1999 or that it didn’t have the Grand Edition door sills until I pointed it out to him; he wasn’t the salesperson on the trade-in and had only seen the car in the lot in passing.
 

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1991 Mercedes Benz 300E, 179K, stock, daily driver
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It was in fact a "Grand Edition", but without the branding, if that makes any sense. The strange thing is that MBM is corporate owned and the salesperson stated it was a trade-in from an MBUSA employee (apparently there's an employee car program / discount), but he didn’t realize it wasn’t a 1999 or that it didn’t have the Grand Edition door sills until I pointed it out to him; he wasn’t the salesperson on the trade-in and had only seen the car in the lot in passing.
That's very wierd... Sometimes corporate makes mistakes too, wait but what does mbm stand for? Mercedes Benz museum? Maybe the guy got a certain % off parts too so he switched the wood and other parts to make it a GE Because if it was me and I bought a car (any car or any price) and a year later there was a major difference or a new major option I want or maybe even how like in 1992 or 93, 94, one of those years Mercedes dropped the price of the w140 for cost cutting and owners were pissed off because they got screwed out of 10 grand (not knowing they had the more solid w140). Also why would a guy working for Mercedes-Benz give up a w140, im sure he knew all about it...
 

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1994 S500 Sedan
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1,214 Posts
Sorry, MBM stands for Mercedes-Benz Manhattan. I doubt the interior was swapped out. Many years ago, but was legit. There may have been a small run of test cars to show the pairing of the paint, leather and wood colors...
 

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1999 S600 & 1999 S500
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892 Posts
Somewhere in the forum is an article from the Star Mag which has pictures of a GE which is missing some of the zGE bonus items. I believe the picture shows the leather wheel and not the S600 style wood wheel. Perhaps the car in question was one of these.

I personally prefer the ride from my first non GE over the monoblocks. The standard wheel ride much more "Presidential". I do think however that my wheels may be out of round. Second set of tires (Hankook) and I still get a minor vibration at about 55MPH. It is not as bad as the NEXEN I had before andgaot a refund after several re-balances.
 

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111/123/124/126/140/201
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If I remember right, these are standard on S600

1)The added two pieces of wood shown in picture
2) ESP
3) two tone seats
4) Front heated seats
 

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98 S500
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Geekhou05: I stand corrected. I believe the detuned version found in the w220 was only producing 365hp, whatever the liter size was, that the 5.5 liter version in the '03 and upwards was turbocharged, producing upwards of 450 hp?
Correct - 493 horses to be exact. That engine has not been superseded yet and is used in current 600 models. In the S600, it produces 510 horses.

I've been looking for the next purchase and am looking at a 2008/2009 CL600. Any idea how long the turbos will last?? It wouldn't be a daily driver, which my W140 isn't ether. My LS430 does just fine getting me to the office when I go...:surrender:
 
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