Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
500SLC #2624. Black on Black.
Joined
·
5,120 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Okay, so this post isn't actually an explanation is why this is the case, more of an example the re-inforce that it is, in fact, the case...

Benreal, sorry to use your 5.0 as an example again...

... but lets compare value again to the basket-case 500SLC on German ebay...

The German car still has 15 hours to run, and is already 8x the price realised for the US based 5.0. Yes, the 5.0 was full of rust (but certainly revive-able, and it had LOTS of good bits on it), but the 500 is in a sorry state, and the seller doesn't even provide a full description of the issues with the car...

Mercedes-Benz : SL-Class - eBay (item 260694261690 end time Nov-23-10 21:12:16 PST)

Mercedes Benz 500 SLC OLDTIMER bei eBay.de: Mercedes-Benz (endet 28.11.10 22:45:31 MEZ)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
'80 450SLC Afro RHD Ikonengold
Joined
·
2,900 Posts
The very understanding of what posh is could be the difference.
Others people heritage makes other people do the ununderstanding. Pay the x (uberant) amount of money for something that is worthless to some and worth some to others.
 

·
Registered
mercedes benz 450sl 1978
Joined
·
19 Posts
Classic MB's are generally higher in price in europe, thats a fact. No matter the condition of the car. Ok, some ads are exagerated but in general its true.

Parts are much higher in europe, hand work too. So a good condition car, with work done on it is going to be more expensive. Also, some models, like the 107 have been mostly sold in the US.

An example, for my 78 450 sl, I have to change the steering power box and the soft top with all the rubbers. For the soft top/ rubberts without install its about 900 $, the steering ? You better sit down cose its 6000 Euros ( at today exchange its about 8000 $ ) done by mercedes. Why ? simple the power steering box (rebuilt) is 350 $ in USA and more than 10 times the price in europe.

So if I do this by the MB book I 'll be looking at spending approx 10K$ for what would cost around 3 or 4K$ in USA. I know because I ve been checking prices for a couple of month now.

Hope it gives a rough explanation :)
 

·
Registered
500SLC #2624. Black on Black.
Joined
·
5,120 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Classic MB's are generally higher in price in europe, thats a fact. No matter the condition of the car. Ok, some ads are exagerated but in general its true.

Parts are much higher in europe, hand work too. So a good condition car, with work done on it is going to be more expensive. Also, some models, like the 107 have been mostly sold in the US.

An example, for my 78 450 sl, I have to change the steering power box and the soft top with all the rubbers. For the soft top/ rubberts without install its about 900 $, the steering ? You better sit down cose its 6000 Euros ( at today exchange its about 8000 $ ) done by mercedes. Why ? simple the power steering box (rebuilt) is 350 $ in USA and more than 10 times the price in europe.

So if I do this by the MB book I 'll be looking at spending approx 10K$ for what would cost around 3 or 4K$ in USA. I know because I ve been checking prices for a couple of month now.

Hope it gives a rough explanation :)
That's good info... thanks.

I should have been more explicit in my thread title, and stated that it's where the SELLER'S market is at. ;)
 

·
Premium Member
2010 Mercury Milan Hybrid, 1993 BMW 325i convertible
Joined
·
6,077 Posts
And why do you think I'm listing mine over there?

- The dollar isn't as strong against the Euro now so they pay less, I get more
- Germany uses massive road salt in the winter, and cars rust out fast
- Germany has a strict vehicle safety inspection and any vehicle considered unsafe can't be registered and driven
- Fewer 107s were sold in Germany, and a smaller percentage survived to today

on top of everything previously posted

Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to take a bath on this car. If I manage to get a 50% return on my money, I'll consider myself lucky and send the car off with a pretty bow and a nice card in the glovebox. And be reasonably confident that the person buying it will take care of it.
 

·
Registered
1988 560 SL (sold)/1995 E320
Joined
·
676 Posts
That's how I sold mine in march this year. Back to Stuttgart. Just under $20,000. Best part for the buyer was the European bumpers and headlights on my 560. I still miss having it. If I were to do it again, it would need to be silver with a black interior. And the euro bumpers would be installed again and .... WAIT! getting carried away!:p
 

·
Registered
1985 500SL 130K (Horst)
Joined
·
4,442 Posts
That's how I sold mine in march this year. Back to Stuttgart. Just under $20,000. Best part for the buyer was the European bumpers and headlights on my 560. I still miss having it. If I were to do it again, it would need to be silver with a black interior. And the euro bumpers would be installed again and .... WAIT! getting carried away!:p
I'll keep you in mind if I ever go to sell. I'll even throw in the 5 liter engine and rubber trunk lid spoiler as part of the package deal.:thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
mercedes benz 450sl 1978
Joined
·
19 Posts
My car was brought to France long before I bought it, in 2005. It was registered in France in 1997. But I do have all the paperwork.

Few things that are good and few less good. Goods are the fact that I can use normal gas in my SL while most europeans have to add an additive in the fuel because originally they ran on leaded fuel. I don't because in 78, in USA, americans (you...) used unleaded fuel. Better ! Also, since prices are lower the cars have, for most, been better maintained and serviced in the US.

On the downside, US cars are lower on power due to emissions regulations in the 70 and 80's. My 450 has catalitic converter and charkoal canister which reduce power... upside: canister and converter are easy to remove :thumbsup:

Putting euro bumper in europe is extremely expensive, I'am doing it but by luck I got some rusted at a bargain. In good condition or, worse, new they go as far as 5000 $ a pair.

So in general, US cars are less expensive here than euro versions for the reasons stated above and because a lot are 450's and europeans look for the 380 because gas here is expensive. Makes you wonder why buy an SL if you look at gas pricing :)

Don't know much about the german market for SL's but people here are re-starting to look for these cars since we are getting more and more speed cameras and anti-driving policies. So, driving an SL on week ends is looking better than a 911...

For info, last year SL's in normal condition were being sold at 14 000 euros, this year they're up to 22 keuros.

cheers,
 

·
Registered
500SLC #2624. Black on Black.
Joined
·
5,120 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
My car was brought to France long before I bought it, in 2005. It was registered in France in 1997. But I do have all the paperwork.

Few things that are good and few less good. Goods are the fact that I can use normal gas in my SL while most europeans have to add an additive in the fuel because originally they ran on leaded fuel. I don't because in 78, in USA, americans (you...) used unleaded fuel. Better ! Also, since prices are lower the cars have, for most, been better maintained and serviced in the US.

On the downside, US cars are lower on power due to emissions regulations in the 70 and 80's. My 450 has catalitic converter and charkoal canister which reduce power... upside: canister and converter are easy to remove :thumbsup:

Putting euro bumper in europe is extremely expensive, I'am doing it but by luck I got some rusted at a bargain. In good condition or, worse, new they go as far as 5000 $ a pair.

So in general, US cars are less expensive here than euro versions for the reasons stated above and because a lot are 450's and europeans look for the 380 because gas here is expensive. Makes you wonder why buy an SL if you look at gas pricing :)

Don't know much about the german market for SL's but people here are re-starting to look for these cars since we are getting more and more speed cameras and anti-driving policies. So, driving an SL on week ends is looking better than a 911...

For info, last year SL's in normal condition were being sold at 14 000 euros, this year they're up to 22 keuros.

cheers,
There is no need to add a lead replacement additive to Euro SL's. Since long before the 107's came out Mercedes were using hardened valve seats, and they can run safely on unleaded. I would recommend using higher octane than regular though.
 

·
Registered
1975 Mercedes 450sl & 1979 Mercedes 450sl & 1978 450SLC
Joined
·
419 Posts
I am currently home in Europe, in Munich and Vienna, and of course i can not help but looking around for 450sl's. The cars on ebay.de and ebay.at are usually the cars people can not sell anywhere else, like the last hope to put the piece of rust back on the street, usually you will not get a TUV, (the yearly certificate to use the car on the street) without huge additional investments.
I keep reading the German newspapers, found some 450sl's, took a look and i am shocked. Two cars did not have the papers for use in Germany, they were imported from Us, total rust, no chance to bring this cars back on the street. Sellers wanted 12000Euros. Another one looked beautifully restored, also from the US, so i took a look under the car, and as often with US cars i found many covers of Fiberglass put over the rusty floorpans and pilars, but the cover up was done nicely, price 20.000euros (of course no German TUV, and no chance to get one). Fact is nearly all 450sl's you find in Germany are imporeted from the US. Here in Vienna i found a nice 280SL, but unfortunately it is not for sale, well, i could not afford it anyhow, the price should be around 26.000Euros.
So why so expensive? Germans love classic cars, it is a status symbol, especially Mercedes, and with all the newspapers full about the Euro Problems many people think it is better to invest the colorfull Paper called money into something of value and fun, Gold and Silver is nice but a little boring:)
 

·
Premium Member
'72 350SL, '85 300D, '98 E320, '19 Subaru Outback (sold '14 GLK250)
Joined
·
10,338 Posts
The problem for us in NA, is how to sell in a way that there is no chance we get ripped off.

I haven't tried to sell a car, but we did once advertise a sailboat here in Canada. Somehow, we got enquiries from Europe that were obviously from scammers. In the end, the boat was sold to Holland, but through a dealer over there who we could trust.

If I could get $20k for my very good '72, I WOULD sell it! Those are dollars, not Euros!

Just how do you arrange such a sale so that neither party can be ripped off?
 

·
Registered
1986 300 SL Euro spec - Signal Red/Black Eng/Trans: Inline 6 (M103.982) / 722.322 Auto
Joined
·
1,976 Posts
My 300 SL (with an inline 6 cylinder) would probably fetch in the upper 20k euros if what Im reading is correct, but right now, I'm enjoying the ride too much to think about that. :D
 

·
Premium Member
2010 Mercury Milan Hybrid, 1993 BMW 325i convertible
Joined
·
6,077 Posts
I am currently home in Europe, in Munich and Vienna, and of course i can not help but looking around for 450sl's. The cars on ebay.de and ebay.at are usually the cars people can not sell anywhere else, like the last hope to put the piece of rust back on the street, usually you will not get a TUV, (the yearly certificate to use the car on the street) without huge additional investments.
Well, I hope people don't assume that about mine. My coworker has been missing in action for the last week, so this morning I listed it on mobile.de. Without his translation services, I had to list it in English. And, of course, I had to radically edit the description, because they wouldn't let me post my novel. ;)

Hey, Judy, if I scanned the receipts for the paint job (in 2007) and sent that to people asking about the car with photos showing the undercarriage, do you think that would prove it has no rust? You're more familiar with the Euro mindset than I am.
 

·
Registered
1975 Mercedes 450sl & 1979 Mercedes 450sl & 1978 450SLC
Joined
·
419 Posts
Code:
Hey, Judy, if I scanned the receipts for the paint job (in 2007) and sent that to people asking about the car with photos showing the undercarriage, do you think that would prove it has no rust? You're more familiar with the Euro mindset than I am.
Hi Scott, If Europeans ask about the paint job, there are 2 reasons: First, we hate paint jobs on calssic cars, we prefer original, always. Second, American paint jobs are often done with silicon based paint, this stuff is horror for us, we have to sandblast the whole car to get it off and put original paint on!
Pictures we want to see: Always from under the car, can not be enough, we do not care about the exhaust system, we are used to change it every few years because of the TUV Standards, if possible take a wheel off and make a picture, take the floor mats out, make a pic, big picture from engine is nice, but we like more details like engine compartment rust, maybe you took a front light off for cleaning and made a pic, show it, we love to see how it looks underneath the lights(original color and rust).
Make a you tube link with a little film showing the car with the engine running, always helps, we love to hear the engine sound....
Good Luck, Judy
Ps: taking pictures with flash from under the car or inside the engine compartement always shows strange parts looking like rust even there is no rust. I usually use a diffuser on my flash and/or Flash color filters to get nice pictures, For color filters just put some transparent plastik in front of the flash, experiment with orange, blue or use a golden reflector.
 

·
Registered
1975 Mercedes 450sl & 1979 Mercedes 450sl & 1978 450SLC
Joined
·
419 Posts
and Scott if you need help translating just PM me the text and i send it back to you in German as it should read in a for sale ad.:thumbsup:
 

·
Premium Member
2010 Mercury Milan Hybrid, 1993 BMW 325i convertible
Joined
·
6,077 Posts
and Scott if you need help translating just PM me the text and i send it back to you in German as it should read in a for sale ad.:thumbsup:
PM sent, and tomorrow I'll take the extra photos you suggested and add them to the album.
 

·
Registered
1975 Mercedes 450sl & 1979 Mercedes 450sl & 1978 450SLC
Joined
·
419 Posts
Code:
Just how do you arrange such a sale so that neither party can be ripped off?
You are right MBGraham, it is very hard to deal overseas, to much scam, i know of many Europeans that would not trust an American seller, and vice versa. Here in Germany and Austria we have some US 450SL's, most without TUV and with no chance to ever be back on the road again, to much rust, people buy them in good hope from the US without inspecting the car personally.
As a Canadian you have some advantages, your image concerning cars is much higher here in Europe, i think this has to do with your car industry (Magna) and Frank Stronach, the Austro/Canadian, who always is in the German and Austrian Newspapers and who assembles Mercedes, BMW, in his factorys here in Germany and Austria. Newspapers build opinions.
It is very hard to do an overseas sale without anybody you know and trust in the buyers country, i have no solutions.
here is an example of a poor 450Sl from America, no TUV, interior is mediocore, lots of love is needed for the rust and the car was painted in the US-sadly a typical american paint job. Price 9.000Euros! I have seen this car personally a few months ago.
Gebrauchtwagen: Mercedes-Benz, 450, SL W107, Benzin, ? 8.990,- AutoScout24 Detailansicht

but there are also some nice 450SL like this one imported from Chicago 5 years ago, leather is torn, exhaust system is rusty, but car looks good overall and has the TUV, and that comes with a price: 18.000Euros
Bazar.at | Mercedes 450SL US Modell | Motor | Wien

and here is an original Austrian 350SL in perfect condition, price 30.000Euros
Mercedes-Benz SL 350 Roadster W 107 Leder Automatik | Gebrauchtwagen Cabrio / Roadster zu verkaufen | www.car4you.at

and now i have to go and shovel the snow, it snows like crazy here in Vienna!
 

·
Premium Member
2010 Mercury Milan Hybrid, 1993 BMW 325i convertible
Joined
·
6,077 Posts
Sorry, Judy, but I have more questions.... I hope this isn't intrusive.

In the ad on mobile.de, I assumed E10 enabled meant it could use 10% ethanol mix gasoline - did I guess right? It works fine on that, so I checked yes. And I selected Euro 2 emissions, because that was closest to California requirements for CO and the rest. Euro 2 actually allows a little more pollution than California does, but it will easily pass that requirement. I don't know what TUV checks, but everything works as it was designed to work. Well, mostly. I did make the side marker lights flash with the blinkers - US lights don't usually do that, but I liked having the extra signal. The headlights themselves are Hella E code housings that use H4/H1 bulbs, so unless the buyer wanted to change to Euro lights, these should pass. My coworker said the tires were irrelevant, because they would have to be changed to German manufacture tires on import, but they're almost new with lots of tread left.

I looked into the paint brand used on my car, and it didn't say anything about silicone, but it's a 2 stage (base coat/clear coat) instead of the lacquer based paint originally used. Unfortunately EPA regulations no longer allow the single stage lacquer paint to be used most places in the US. However, the car was completely stripped, panels straightened and reassembled with all new seals. It wasn't a tape & spray job, they took their time and did it carefully. The repair shop manager at the MB Classic Center here in SoCal was impressed enough to comment on it, and he said it was one of the few he's seen that was done properly. Is this type of paint job also considered a negative? The original paint had been buffed out so many times it was down to the primer in a few spots. No choice but to repaint.

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions, but you're like my guide to a whole new land. The land of selling a car in Germany. ;)
 

·
Premium Member
'72 350SL, '85 300D, '98 E320, '19 Subaru Outback (sold '14 GLK250)
Joined
·
10,338 Posts
Code:
Just how do you arrange such a sale so that neither party can be ripped off?
You are right MBGraham, it is very hard to deal overseas, to much scam, i know of many Europeans that would not trust an American seller, and vice versa.

and now i have to go and shovel the snow, it snows like crazy here in Vienna!
Thanks for input. Seems like there should be a business opportunity for a European broker. Lots of cars in NA at low prices, some demand in Europe at much higher prices. Big enough difference to cover cost of shipping and a nice profit. Maybe this is being done.

But for an individual, not so easy.
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top