Mercedes-Benz Forum banner
1 - 20 of 65 Posts

·
Registered
1976 450SL, 1992 190e 2.3, 1984 300D turbo, 1966 VW bus
Joined
·
1,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm asking this question in the 107 forum because you people are most knowledgeable.

My daily driver Mercedes has real bad original paint. 1992 model. Past the point of buffing.
High mileage car, not worth expensive paint job. But mechanically very solid.

I would like to remove all trim, do all dent filling, priming, and sanding at home. Then take it in for a Maaco spray. I expect in some areas bare metal will sand through, very thin paint.

two questions:

  • Should I get a single stage paint or the "upgraded" more expensive dual stage (base and clear)? Everyone seems to have a different opinion. Car was originally single stage "Arctic White". Don't want to spend more than about $1,200 at Maaco.

  • Planning to use Eastwood 2k primer. Should I epoxy or high build urethane? Should I use a layer of both kinds? Are they both suitable for going over bare metal, bondo or old paint? Is ANY paint type compatible with ANY primer type?




My main concern is making sure everything is compatible and won't have some kind of bad reaction..
I know this is a lot of work but I would like to learn.
Thanks all
 

·
Registered
1989 560SL
Joined
·
427 Posts

·
Registered
1976 450SL, 1992 190e 2.3, 1984 300D turbo, 1966 VW bus
Joined
·
1,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If it is single stage, why is it past the point of buffing?
I buffed out my single stage 560SL and check this link. I did not write it, but it is pretty much the way I do it:

View attachment 2726122 View attachment 2726123
Because there is no paint left to buff
 

·
Registered
95 SL600
Joined
·
1,125 Posts
#1 Single stage is good for solid colors, not so much for metallic. Buffing single stage solid colors will bring the shine back, metallic will change color.
#2 Epoxy primer is used for sealing and direct to metal(DTM) applications, high build is used for filling and sanding imperfections in the body paint or other. Both are compatible with each other.
Here is how I would go about this job

Wash the car, get it clean and permanent marker the dents and body damage that needs attention.
Disassemble the parts ( door handles, antenna, lights etc) that you need to fix and sand the body.
If there are large dents that require metal work start with those first, metal work ( getting the metal back to as close to the original shape) grind area to bare metal where body filler is needed (60 to 80 grit) and fill with filler. Sand filler with 36 grit get it close go to 80 grit and finish with Dual action 180 grit ( this is for dents that primer won’t fill) You can now use the high build as a final filler fathering our 8 to 12” past the body filler. Make sure to cover car with plastic and just leave the needed areas taped and open primer sticks to everything.
Block the area down with 180 grit in straight motions to get the area straight holding the block flat. Sand straight one way, perpendicular and at 45 degree angles to those. Sanding in circular motions and just one way will not give good results

Since you aren’t going to strip the whole car to bare metal, you can also block the whole car using the original paint in the car as a filler to sand out small dents snd scratches. Any areas that you can’t get out you should use the high build and block down again.

Once you feel the body is straight you can use a dual action sander with 320 grit to sand out the 180 grit scratches. If the paint is metallic, the car will have to be sealed before it’s painted. Metallic paint will show all sand scratches solid not so much.
It’s lots of work
 

·
Registered
1976 450SL, 1992 190e 2.3, 1984 300D turbo, 1966 VW bus
Joined
·
1,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
#1 Single stage is good for solid colors, not so much for metallic. Buffing single stage solid colors will bring the shine back, metallic will change color.
#2 Epoxy primer is used for sealing and direct to metal(DTM) applications, high build is used for filling and sanding imperfections in the body paint or other. Both are compatible with each other.
Here is how I would go about this job

Wash the car, get it clean and permanent marker the dents and body damage that needs attention.
Disassemble the parts ( door handles, antenna, lights etc) that you need to fix and sand the body.
If there are large dents that require metal work start with those first, metal work ( getting the metal back to as close to the original shape) grind area to bare metal where body filler is needed (60 to 80 grit) and fill with filler. Sand filler with 36 grit get it close go to 80 grit and finish with Dual action 180 grit ( this is for dents that primer won’t fill) You can now use the high build as a final filler fathering our 8 to 12” past the body filler. Make sure to cover car with plastic and just leave the needed areas taped and open primer sticks to everything.
Block the area down with 180 grit in straight motions to get the area straight holding the block flat. Sand straight one way, perpendicular and at 45 degree angles to those. Sanding in circular motions and just one way will not give good results

Since you aren’t going to strip the whole car to bare metal, you can also block the whole car using the original paint in the car as a filler to sand out small dents snd scratches. Any areas that you can’t get out you should use the high build and block down again.

Once you feel the body is straight you can use a dual action sander with 320 grit to sand out the 180 grit scratches. If the paint is metallic, the car will have to be sealed before it’s painted. Metallic paint will show all sand scratches solid not so much.
It’s lots of work
thank you this was helpful. So bondo must be applied to bare metal not over old paint or primer? And yes it is solid white color, nothing crazy. Sounds like maybe I don't need epoxy primer
 

·
Registered
1989 560SL
Joined
·
449 Posts
45 years in the business and the number 1 thing I wanna tell you is…You Are On The Right Track.
I will give you any advice you want and try to help you paint your car with simple and long lasting techniques and products.
The most important thing I can say about the paint and body business in the last 30 years is that most advances are focused on faster drying times of all chemicals, brighter and more exotic colors, and more environmentally friendly products.
I want you to see this because I’m gonna be busy this evening and I’m not sure how much I can interact with you tonight. But, I want to help you get to a good paint job with peace of mind
 

·
Registered
1996 SL500, former 1986 560SL
Joined
·
525 Posts
If the car is relatively straight, I recommend spending more for base/clear. Double check if your 93 Arctic White is indeed single stage or base/clear.
My addtional suggestion is to also consult with the shop that will do the painting about materials (and price) before you do your work.
 

·
Registered
1976 450SL, 1992 190e 2.3, 1984 300D turbo, 1966 VW bus
Joined
·
1,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
45 years in the business and the number 1 thing I wanna tell you is…You Are On The Right Track.
I will give you any advice you want and try to help you paint your car with simple and long lasting techniques and products.
The most important thing I can say about the paint and body business in the last 30 years is that most advances are focused on faster drying times of all chemicals, brighter and more exotic colors, and more environmentally friendly products.
I want you to see this because I’m gonna be busy this evening and I’m not sure how much I can interact with you tonight. But, I want to help you get to a good paint job with peace of mind
thank you Jeff, I appreciate the support
 

·
Registered
1989 560SL
Joined
·
449 Posts
thank you this was helpful. So bondo must be applied to bare metal not over old paint or primer? And yes it is solid white color, nothing crazy. Sounds like maybe I don't need epoxy primer
Ideally, plastic body filler ( try not to say bondo) should should be applied to bare metal that is sanded with 40 grit or rougher paper. In reality, it can be put over some existing products, but you will have shrinkage of paint primers and top coats when applied over different products
 

·
Registered
95 SL600
Joined
·
1,125 Posts
I don’t use much epoxy primer unless I strip the car down. If it is white I would single stage, as any spec of dirt that gets between the base and clear snd in the clear will stick out with white. With the single stage it is under color.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
24 Posts
Throw a “wrap” on it and call it good.
I recently saw a new $100K Audi hot rod having its color changed to a factory color specific to a model that cost many times more. This process has become so good that it is indeed difficult to see. One of that shop’s regulars had a brand new Corvette changed from black to Lava Orange. That particular product mimics how most paint “lays out” unless it’s been cut and buffed to a mirror finish. I could not tell it was a wrap.
Laugh if you must but the products hold up well and are a FRACTION of a properly performed re-paint.
Last but not least, the price of paint has gone through the roof!
 

·
Registered
1986 560SL
Joined
·
509 Posts
You mentioned Maaco. Some years ago I had an Audi that was fine mechanically, with a refreshed interior, but the paint's condition was a letdown. The Maaco manager told me that if I bring the car in with minimal masking needed, he'd add buffing to the job. So when I delivered it, the bumper covers and mirror housings were separate from the rest of the car, plus no head or taillights, side markers lights, no wipers, etc. I also removed all of the plastic fender liners and washed out the wheel wells. The result was quite nice for an inexpensive paint job.
 

·
Registered
'87 560 SEC, Pearl Grey/blue; 300,000+ mi; '07 CLS 550, Barolo/stone; 115,000+ mi
Joined
·
1,229 Posts
You mentioned Maaco. Some years ago I had an Audi that was fine mechanically, with a refreshed interior, but the paint's condition was a letdown. The Maaco manager told me that if I bring the car in with minimal masking needed, he'd add buffing to the job. So when I delivered it, the bumper covers and mirror housings were separate from the rest of the car, plus no head or taillights, side markers lights, no wipers, etc. I also removed all of the plastic fender liners and washed out the wheel wells. The result was quite nice for an inexpensive paint job.
Glad to hear, did you inspect closely in different light to see if there were any fish eyes, lint/debris, or heavier than desired orange peel? I just wonder how cautious/what measures they take with the less costly paint places.
 

·
Registered
1985 280SL (Euro)
Joined
·
531 Posts
When I bought my car the seller had just put it through an "Earl Schieb special" and it looked great until I got close up. Couldn't live with all the overspray and orange peel so had it done properly almost immediately. Only one word of advice - if you employ a down and dirty paint shop - Do your own masking and do it very thoroughly
 

·
Registered
1987 300SL
Joined
·
2,191 Posts
Throw a “wrap” on it and call it good.
I recently saw a new $100K Audi hot rod having its color changed to a factory color specific to a model that cost many times more. This process has become so good that it is indeed difficult to see. One of that shop’s regulars had a brand new Corvette changed from black to Lava Orange. That particular product mimics how most paint “lays out” unless it’s been cut and buffed to a mirror finish. I could not tell it was a wrap.
Laugh if you must but the products hold up well and are a FRACTION of a properly performed re-paint.
Last but not least, the price of paint has gone through the roof!
Wraps are getting seriously good although get let down when you open the door
 

·
Registered
1976 450SL, 1992 190e 2.3, 1984 300D turbo, 1966 VW bus
Joined
·
1,742 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
This is going to take a lot of time to explain. If you can DM me, I will be happy to give you my cel number. I still plan to share a lot of info on this thread, but I could also wind up several pages in the weeds if I'm not careful.
Thanks Jeff and everyone else. This will probably have to wait until the spring. Don't have a garage where I can get dust and primer overspray everywhere so outside is preferable. Too cold.
I will reach out when I actually begin.

Mostly wanted to confirm that this approach will work and yield acceptable results.
 

·
Registered
1989 560SL
Joined
·
449 Posts
I will post as my day allows. I hope it isn't gonna be all weird "stream of consciousness'" looking.

All this advice is based upon the assumption a person has access to a garage and an air compressor that is minimum 5 hp with a 60 gallon tank. Ideally 220 current, but 110 is OK. And the vast majority of the sanding load will be handled by electric tools. Also, the family and/or neighbors have to be willing to tolerate the dust and chemical stench.

I have never seen or used the Eastwood primer linked to, but I think the concept of the self-mixing 2K can is novel. I'm also wondering how much coverage and build one would get. my guess is one can will fully prime one panel that has been worked. Like a door that has several dings accumulated and will be worked from the bottom of the door glass to the cladding.
More later
 
1 - 20 of 65 Posts
Top