[samosali]

so what is your opinion about it? For those who do not know details, policy is about to prohibit engines with internal combustion from year 2035 on in Europe. To me it is crazy idea due to many reasons. Yes, the pollution should be decreased however will it be decreased for real?
However i do not want to discuss about environment, green energy, etc. I would just like to hear your opinion what does it mean for people like us in this moment, assuming that this crazy idea will come true. So, is it clever to invest into classic car (another w140), newest car maybe (W221, etc.) , or sell everything because it will become useless in the future. I just gave some ideas for discussion, I am not claiming anything.
Thanks,
Samo

 

[Elefant]

I think IC will work itself out of the system eventually, but not globally. There will remain spots where it makes more sense to operate an IC modality. I do however think that the politician-pushed senario is too optimistic as to the deadline. Some nations cannot even power their landmarks at night but expect to go full EV tomorrow!

Never a bad idea to stock up on 140s if you have the money. Lol.

 

[LogicalPosition]

"Cold, dead fingers..."

 

[Grumpa]

Politicians have been doing this sort of thing for generations.
Politician Playbook.
!. Come up with a scam, like climate change.
2. Invest tons of money in the "green machine".
3. Make it mandatory for everyone to use, and create punishments for not.
4. Watch your stocks roll over multiple times.
5. Laugh your way to the bank in your gas guzzling limo while everyone else fights over a charger.

JMHO

 

[MAVA]

In the USA we are sloppy with timelines, and the State of California has something going on along the same ways, but it will not happen as Big-Oil is too big has too much power here. The rest of the USA cannot support the high price point of electric. Plus the working class is the one paying for electric car subsidies (credits), so in five to seven years we will see that car manufactures do not see the metrics of sales panning out. The US dollar is losing value here very fast(, and the USA is spending way too much than it brings in. Who is going to pay for the subsidies? Real Californians are leaving the state in record numbers to other states because of the high taxes-I'm still a Californian where ALL the taxation is at, but California Politicians use the word "FEE's", but the magic is not what you make, but what you KEEP.....

I'm not anti-electric. I want to convert a car to electric before I exit this world. I'd probably swap the entire rear sub frame to a R129 with a Model 3 sub-frame. It is getting cheap to do this now.

My Thoughts - It will Never Happen, it will explode in California's Face as the money for the roads comes from fuel tax. The nation could not even bare if electric cars even came to $10k to $20k.

Martin

 

[SocalSam]

EV mandate is political. Tides always turn. Mandate will be watered down or scrapped.

 

[luisg92]

Getting rid of ICE is only possible in theory but not in practice. These kind of narrow-minded ideas come from wealthy people that ignore the reality outside the small and exclusive circle they live in.

Perhaps is possible for Europe to do so because is small, densely populated and has lots of money, but what about places where there are more important needs still unattended like access to education, health, drinkable water, electricity or even something as basic as peace? Or places with little to no population in where towns are several hundreds of miles apart from each other and you won’t find not even power lines in such empty places?

I don’t see electrification possible in places like the Australian Outback, most of Africa, most of South America, most of India, rural areas in the middle East and even remote places in North America. Nobody has the resources the build all the required power plants, lay the grid, install chargers and buy EVs for those who can’t afford them in all of those areas. Some places will still rely on IC for transportation, agriculture, construction and even to produce electricity way beyond 2035.

Most countries still have bigger, more urgent and basic issues to solve than pleasing a really small group of fake environmentalists that push for “solutions” that just hide the issue by moving emissions away from the urban centers they live in. Electrification doesn’t solve anything, it just sells unnecessary things to ignorant people who believe they are making a change by spending money.

That pathetic group of people pushing for electrification should get out of Europe and California and go to poor places to see how most of the humanity live, so they can realize what priorities should be.

 

[arklatexV12]

It's not really going to happen - a phase-out of all ICE vehicles, or even all consumer ones - but we are seeing the end of exotic engines, i.e. V12s and V10s. Naturally-aspirated V8s will probably go out of production within a reasonable amount of time as well, say fifteen years or so. Turbo V8s will take over for the naturally aspirated ones on American cars such as Corvettes and Mustangs, and may stick around on S-classes, M5s, etc. as well.

 

[samosali]

Wau, thanks for the responses. It seems we are in the same boat in terms of thinking. however Europe is not US and I am afraid they will make it true here. It is much easier to manipulate with people here than in USA. I wanted to hear more about your opinions, like ... is it a clever moment now to buy a car (new or used) with internal combustion or not. Will the prices of IC cars (used and new) go up or down in near future??? Will the number of fuel pumps drastically decrease if they fulfill their dangerous plan to eliminate IC cars?

I agree that charging Ecar will be a problem if something does not change drastically in near future. Finally, electricity does not grow on trees, so somehow we have to produce it which means time, money and pollution even in sun energy concept. I do not think climate changes is a scam, most scientists agree that it is a huge problem. But it is much bigger problem in China and India where they do not intend to make a revolution (go for Ecars) soon if ever. We (humanity) should do all changes in one way only which will provide equal or even higher standard of living. So the saddest point of all these crazy actions (read REVOLUTION) is that humanity is capable to produce things and concepts to live better, however our lives are worse every day. This is ridiculous. Ecars mean higher cost so many people's mobility will be affected in a bad way. So something is terribly wrong and this can only be due to politicians who are definitely the less practical people in this planet. They are not engineers, writers like E. Hemingway, etc, they are just unpractical poor souls uncapable to replace the broken bulb, in general. And the most cynical thing is that they decide about our life.

 

[MAVA]

Here are some running threads:

California to Ban the Sale of New Gasoline Cars...

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/24/climate/california-gas-cars-emissions.html

www.benzworld.org

OT: So what do you think the transition to EV vehicles...

What do you think the transition to EV vehicles will be like over the next 5 years, next 10 years? I read that the cost to charge a Model 3 Tesla is 62kwh. In our area it would cost approximately $6.20 and the Tesla range is 300miles. (In NC the price of a kwh is just under 10 cents even...

www.benzworld.org

Click on the New York times link in the first thread..

Martin

 

[samosali]

Click on the New York times link in the first thread..

it is not free of charge but nevertheless.

i mis what people think about what to do ... if it is clever to do anything at all. I mean maybe now it is a right moment to buy a car, not any car, i mean a real car like MB, Rolls, etc.

I put an ad for my W140 and i set the price to 15k EUR. After two months I have received a first call ...

 

[quakercity]

At least in the US, ICE cars are not being eliminated in California. They are saying that by year X no new ICE cars can be sold.

As an engineer, I say that the US does not have the electrical infrastructure to support a total conversion to ECars. i believe that the CEO of Nissan thinks that it is a fad. Last summer during a heat wave, the Governor of California asked people not to charge the cars because of potential brown outs or rotating black outs. I believe that Carbon sequestration will be commercially viable in the next 10 years. That is the only way to effectively reduce carbon emissions.

The world needs to realize that China is continuing to build new Coal fired plants and already has 2X the coal generation that the US has. Also India continues to build new plants. The US is spending billions to build new solar plants and wind turbines all of which are subsidized by the tax payers and paid for by the rate payers. Meanwhile China and India are spending billions to increase their consumption of coal.

As a Star Car nut, I would not not spend $30K on a Ecar but would gladly buy a 2007-08 S65 and enjoy it, or maybe a R129 S600. I would certainly not spend $70K on a Tesla but would but the S65 and R129 instead! I think ICE cars will increase in value especially the v12s because fewer are being made.

Samo, you know so much about the W140s you should buy another one.

 

[arklatexV12]

At least in the US, ICE cars are not being eliminated in California. They are saying that by year X no new ICE cars can be sold.

As an engineer, I say that the US does not have the electrical infrastructure to support a total conversion to ECars. i believe that the CEO of Nissan thinks that it is a fad. Last summer during a heat wave, the Governor of California asked people not to charge the cars because of potential brown outs or rotating black outs. I believe that Carbon sequestration will be commercially viable in the next 10 years. That is the only way to effectively reduce carbon emissions.

The world needs to realize that China is continuing to build new Coal fired plants and already has 2X the coal generation that the US has. Also India continues to build new plants. The US is spending billions to build new solar plants and wind turbines all of which are subsidized by the tax payers and paid for by the rate payers. Meanwhile China and India are spending billions to increase their consumption of coal.

As a Star Car nut, I would not not spend $30K on a Ecar but would gladly buy a 2007-08 S65 and enjoy it, or maybe a R129 S600. I would certainly not spend $70K on a Tesla but would but the S65 and R129 instead! I think ICE cars will increase in value especially the v12s because fewer are being made.

Samo, you know so much about the W140s you should buy another one.

Fair warning - I was disappointed in my R129 in comparison to my prior S600, and proceeded to purchase another S600 and felt vindicated in doing so afterwards. The SL600 rode completely terribly, had the same problems as a W140 + hydraulic roof troubles. Gorgeous car, espec. with the AMG bits it had, but I will not buy another.

 

[Hirnbeiss]

I think mankind had a much more difficult transition separating itself from the horse, which was its trusted companion for millennia. The old gearheads like us will claw to the bangers until we return to the depths of Mother Earth, but the following generations will adapt and become addicted to the gadget-loaded silent whizzers.

 

[samosali]

David, here is the "same", ICcars will not be eliminated on the road, they only will not be available as new cars at car dealers. Used cars will be allowed on the roads. BUT ... you never know. Some more craziness and it can easily happen that they will ban these cars for ever. I agree with everything what you wrote and thanks for your opinion about what to do, that's what I wanted to hear.

thanks everybody for interesting and in my opinion correct thoughts.

 

[luisg92]

Regarding the part about being worth buying an IC car despite the looming restrictions, I think that is still worth buying it because most proposed bans a more than a decade away, so there is still plenty of time to enjoy these cars.

There is no need to avoid IC cars yet since they are still the predominant type of cars in the road, so people will keep on demanding fuel, lubricants and services for the years to come. Is not like everyone is going electric, so that gas stations and shops will disappear in next 5 years or so. They will keep on existing way beyond that and therefore support for IC shouldn’t be an issue.

Market values shouldn’t be a concern either since cars can be exported to pretty much any country (except for a few ones that don’t allow second hand cars unless they are classics of a certain age and condition). Even if the appeal for an IC car diminishes locally, that car won’t be worthless because it can be sent overseas and will be worth something to someone else.

Demand for IC cars and support will keep on existing regardless of restrictions. After all, is not like horses went extinct after they were replaced by cars. They still exist and there is a community of enthusiast around them and some examples can cost an absolute fortune, even if you can’t use them to commute. I guess the same will happen to “old vehicles”.

Just as last thought, choosing between an IC car an EV should a thing of freedom. No one should tell you what to buy or not to buy because is your money and is your life and you decide what to do with it. Neither the government nor Greta are paying your bills, so they shouldn’t tell you what you can’t have.

You are the one working and making sacrifices to earn the means to get the stuff you need and want and is up to you making the choice.

 

[samosali]

here is no need to avoid IC cars yet since they are still the predominant type of cars in the road, so people will keep on demanding fuel, lubricants and services for the years to come. Is not like everyone is going electric, so that gas stations and shops will disappear in next 5 years or so.

nice writing. do you really think that gas stations will disappear for instance 5 years after year 2035? because there will be cars on roads of europe which will be 5 years or less old in that moment (here the new IC cars are supposed to be on market until 2035). Even if politicians are crazy, I think they will not eliminate gas stations so soon.

 

[MAVA]

I worked with many California EPA( they are way more stricter than the federal EPA) agencies for many years, and the the disposal of the car battery was approaching FIVE-Figures in cost in US-Dollars. I saw a document a handful of years ago, yet at some DIY junk yards I saw Toyota Prius and Chevrolet Volt battery packs going for $300-$400.

For now what that says is we do not have a solution to the old batteries.

I know Tesla battery packs go for a premium of $10k USD on ebay, but the model 3 and model y are encapsulated in expandable foam which make them very hard to recycle or take apart for DIY. The older packs came apart in reusable sections, and also make it very easy to recycle too.

This problem is big...

IC cars will be with us for many years....

What is happening in the UNITED STATES of AMERICA is the big-box home centers are now selling lawn mowers (even tractor mowers), weed whackers, and other home equipment that is not gas (the options are smaller). Well coming from a guy that knows electricity/electronics. Lithium hates the cold. I Would NEVER buy a Lithium Tractor Mower for areas that get below 60 degree in the winter-Much of the USA is like that. It is silly to have equipment that you get a hundred charge cycles. Good old gas is the best

The same is with power tools. If any of you noticed that have had work done in your home, the contractors show up with their cordless equipment and dozen lithium batteries, and bank of six or so chargers. That was not so the case over a decade ago. Nicad/NiMh batteries have nearly the same performance in very cold, warm and hot. Lithium power tool drop down to loss in the 80% to 90% in cold. I have repopulated some of my tools with advance Nicad cells. Yea these cells have lots of Cadmium that make them toxic to recycle, but then lithium is no better either, and Lithium hate to be charged in the cold, so these very congested big cities like New York are having major spikes in house fires because of Scooter-Fires. They have lithium too.

IC cars will be with us for many years we are just not ready for lithium, and we do not know what to do with it...

It is like the plastic bottle thing world wide. What happened to the old glass bottles that we exchanged when we were done with our milk/beer/soda........

Lithium will invade us like that as we have no solution for it.

The world wants faster/cheaper/quicker/better/lighter.... but it is the waste at the end of the day too...

Martin

 

[bill strickland]

so what is your opinion about it? For those who do not know details, policy is about to prohibit engines with internal combustion from year 2035 on in Europe. To me it is crazy idea due to many reasons. Yes, the pollution should be decreased however will it be decreased for real?
However i do not want to discuss about environment, green energy, etc. I would just like to hear your opinion what does it mean for people like us in this moment, assuming that this crazy idea will come true. So, is it clever to invest into classic car (another w140), newest car maybe (W221, etc.) , or sell everything because it will become useless in the future. I just gave some ideas for discussion, I am not claiming anything.
Thanks,
Samo

sounds like a great idea,,,,,however, in reality, not so much ....Where will the energy come from,,,coal plants that pollute more than gasoline, what about the range or pulling power of the car,,,,short range, long time to recharge, and no power to pull trailer or heavy load for any distance,,,,,but if riding in a golf cart around town is your purpose, then go ahead,,,,,

 

[ChristopherC]

so what is your opinion about it? For those who do not know details, policy is about to prohibit engines with internal combustion from year 2035 on in Europe. To me it is crazy idea due to many reasons. Yes, the pollution should be decreased however will it be decreased for real?
However i do not want to discuss about environment, green energy, etc. I would just like to hear your opinion what does it mean for people like us in this moment, assuming that this crazy idea will come true. So, is it clever to invest into classic car (another w140), newest car maybe (W221, etc.) , or sell everything because it will become useless in the future. I just gave some ideas for discussion, I am not claiming anything.
Thanks,
Samo

It's not going to happen until they release the technology of free energy which they have covered up.