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You seem so sure that the United States is going to war with Iran. What happens if we don't? What if we just keep up what we've been doing for the past several decades and continuously chastise them for human rights abuses and for trying to develop nuclear weapons? If the worst thing that we do is place sanctions on them, how long will it be before you admit you were getting all upset over nothing?





"Imperialism" is defined by the Imperial power taking some or all political control over the subject nation. This didn't happen in any of the countries that we've attacked militarily in the modern era. Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, Germany. In the countries where we overthrew their governments and then occupied them militarily, it was always a temporary occupation. In every single instance, we provided for a transitional government and then turned over the entire state to the native civilian power structure.

Right or wrong and whatever else you want to call it, it isn't "Imperialism".

What we did in Hawaii was most definitely Imperialism. We stole that sovereign nation right out from under the noses of the legitimate rulers with absolutely no justification. It was all about money for corporate America. Strangely, with the exception of a handful of current activists that nobody has heard of, nobody really has a problem with our shameful imperial aggression against Hawaii.
The U.S. has already started a war with Iran, an economic war, that violates International Law.
Will the U.S. attack Iran militarilly ? I seriuosly doubt it. You see, since 1945, the U.S. only attacks countrys militarilly who cant fight back..Iran will fight back if attacked.
They have already planned asymetrical resistance since watching Iraq get destroyed in 1991.
First up on the list..Saudi Arabia..then Tel Aviv.

Its a risk the U.S. cannot afford to take.

Oh by the way, things change rapidly..why not send Bolton packing..let him go back to being a Talking Head War Pimp on fox news..where he cant do any real damage.
Super Spook pompeo?..the Radical Right Wing Conservative, Evangical Christian who said 'Donald trump was appointed by 'God' to protect Israel'...when trump gets defeated in 2020, make sure another one of these American Taliban pukes never ever be put into a position of power.

Netenyahoo..who always shows up year after year wearing a Feindish grin, holding out his hand..for the last 20 years..?..well, perhaps he will be taken out from within his own political system.

No..I am not going to put my head in the sand and overlook the devastation the U.S. military Industrial complex has brought upon the world.

Feel free to do so if you want to..its your right.
 

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Chilcutt's not wrong, we don't have 268 or something military bases around the world along with God knows how many Navy Task Forces around to sell tacos, we are backing and spreading "American Interests" around the globe, if that's not Imperialism perhaps you could tell us what is


im·pe·ri·al·ism
/imˈpirēəˌlizəm/

noun
a policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.
 

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Discussion Starter #484
That was 66 years ago. Only 5 years after the U.S. was the hero of the world for carpet bombing Germany and nuking Japan.

How about we catch up to this century.
Ridding the World of nazi fruit loops was a great achievement. The US was the hero of the World, and rightly so.
America could have extended its stay on the moral high ground for most of the World. Well, the not officially declared war with Vietnam took care of that one to start out with. Gulf of Tonkin incident, or yellow cake pretense for 'Operation Iraqi Freedom,' which was the bigger BS?

Looking at the Middle East, Arabs and Palestinian's don't appear to have forgotten Britain's double dealing and betrayal of promises culminating in the Balfour declaration.
Catching up to this Century?
You might as well ask Jews to forget about the Holocaust and surrender the mantel of victimhood, Armenians about their displacement, death marches and Holocaust of the hands of Turks, or ask Palestinian's to forget how they are being screwed over to this day.
 

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Discussion Starter #485
That event 66 years ago laid the groundwork for this century.

Read: Iran found out the U.S. cant be trusted..a fact that will be carried into the next century.

Face it, Iran isnt going to lay down and succumb to the pressure.

Frankly, its about time somebody stood up to Imperial agression.
Well, much of the blame should be on Britain's shoulders.
After taking the Anglo Persian Oil Company to court all the way up to the Hague, in which Iran had only asked for representation on the board, the right to see the books, and an increase of their supposedly 15% of the profits (something they had no way of checking).
Actually APOC sharply reduced payments to Iran during the lawsuit period), then newly elected prime minister Mossadegh nationalized the oil co.
At the time, the US had already agreed to new contracts with Saudi Arabia and a 50/50 profit sharing, but Britain still adamantly refused to make concessions.
The coup likely only went ahead because of pressure from the UK, because (hold on...drum roll, not private entities but the British government was the largest shareholder of the Anglo Persian Oil Company.
 

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Discussion Starter #486
Iraq depends on imported Iran produce, fears US sanctions on Tehran

 

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Whoa, calm down, there. Dont blow a gasket.


Remember you mentioned 3 countries.

Iraq
Libya
Venezuela

Venezuela didn't fall apart because of the United States. It was flushed down the toilet solely by the arrogant stupidity of Hugo Chavez. Any attempts to blame the United States I shall respond to with ridicule.

Notice that all I said about Libya and Iraq was that they were ruled by brutal dictators and the world is much better off with them gone. Saddam Hussein in particular was a true genocidal maniac who murdered as many as 1 million of his own citizens because they were either the wrong ethnicity or the wrong version of Islam.

The United States has a habit of overthrowing dictators regardless of how much or how little oil they have. See Afghanistan and also Kosovo. No oil there but we bombed the shit out of both countries for the stated purpose of preventing the mass murder of innocent civilians.

I think a good case can be made for the United States to stop playing sheriff of the world. If you want to say that whenever some group of peasants starts getting mowed down by it's own government we should mind our own business, then go ahead and make that case. But please stop with the Big Oil conspiracy theories being behind everything bad happening in the world.
I like the appearance of blowing gaskets, keeps the senses faux alive. US doesn’t judge shit without reason, nor do either of us. Practicality looms heavily especially when human life becomes collateral.
 

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Discussion Starter #490
Iranian forces seize 'foreign tanker' smuggling fuel: State TV

Iranian forces seize 'foreign tanker' smuggling fuel: State TV (apparently this happened several days ago on Wed)

 

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Discussion Starter #491
Bi-Polar Iran

Iran says, their foreign minister was invited to Washington or even the white house by a member of Trumps government.
This was followed by Trump sanctioning the same foreign minister.
Iran's position:
A nations diplomatic corps headed by a foreign minister is the internationally recognized tool for dialog between countries.
The sanctioning of it's foreign minister makes clear that the US government has no interest in a dialog with Iran, therefore Iran refuses any further contact.
If Trump provides Iran with such an excellent argument, can we blame them for using it?
This is an increasingly dangerous game of chicken.

To use the term for a country, Iran should be seen as bi polar imo. On the one hand you have the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps with their controlling / ownership of many industries, which makes the organization largely self financed (Iranian consumers pay for it, much like average Americans are paying for Trump's China tariffs), with the Mullahs in charge and ready to beat down any dissent.
On the other hand, there is a majority of Iranians who do not like the Mullah Kleptocracy they live in, but they still are patriots.

The 1953 CIA led coup that toppled democratically and popular elected Iranian prime minister Mossadegh is not the only American interference the people have yet to forget.

Armed intervention will imo backfire, and serve to prolong the Mullahs grip on power. Many Iranian's may not like them, but they love their country and are patriots first.
Just my 10 Pfennig
 

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All Iran has to do is compromise but they can’t without losing face with their brainwashed constituents. They’ve got nothing left to lose.
 

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..Armed intervention will imo backfire, and serve to prolong the Mullahs grip on power...

i think we have to go back to george walker bush's gulf war to find

a really good use of our armed forces and diplomacy-

that's not a great record and an historical record of how to use our military leaders going forward-

very little
 

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Discussion Starter #494
i think we have to go back to george walker bush's gulf war to find

a really good use of our armed forces and diplomacy-

that's not a great record and an historical record of how to use our military leaders going forward-

very little
WWII and Korea were imo the last just wars America fought in. Everything else were military brown nosers doing the bidding of windsock ethics US politicians.

In Iraq the US forgot to pay attention to security and nation building.
First came dissolving the secret police and sending home people who would have been able to identify potential future troublemakers.
Even Iran's Mullahs were not that stupid. They executed a few infamous Savag guys, changed the name of the organization, and kept right on going.
Second was stopping salaries and disbanding Iraq's military instead of doing some pruning, and worst of all, sending them home with their guns.
Third, seeing on American TV images of Iraqis looting = the breakdown of law and order, to me was the beginning of the end.
Iraqis, who previously hat a good chance of going to jail, just for spitting on the sidewalk near the many depictions of Saddam Hussein, would have been easy to keep in line.
Iraqis at first still looked a bit nervous while nearby US soldiers were not intervening and just watched from their jeeps, military trucks and tanks.

Sadly, ten thousands of American's lost life and limb just because some dilettantes in the white house wanted to play cowboy.
Even more depressing, the one country to profit from 'Operation Iraqi Freedom' turned out to be Iran.
They de facto run large parts of Iraq, and America paid for it.
 

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Currently..IMHO, Iran is over-reaching.

Why not get all of the M.E. countrys onboard (Egyptian style), and demand a Nuclear-Free Middle East.

Starting with israel dis-mantleing its hidden Nuclear program.

I believe that by now the entire world knows who the real problem in the M.E. is.
 

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i think we have to go back to george walker bush's gulf war to find

a really good use of our armed forces and diplomacy-

Not a good example, and I know you meant Bush Senior. We are not the world police where any lazy ass king can calls us to provide the muscle to protect them.

That war was an Arab issue and should have been resolved by the Arabs themselves.
 

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^ In 1990 something like half the world's oil came from the Gulf, and Kuwait was just a stepping stone for the invasion of Saudi Arabia (or so it was thought). Therefore little Kuwait wasn't the real issue, defending Saudi and the World's oil supply was.
 

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Back on subject, I'm reading somewhere that Russia is to deploy several hundred "military advisors" to Iran, not to mention a shitload of fighter jets, warships and submarines (in the Persian Gulf?!! - you'll be able to SEE them from the air!) to Iranian bases. Syria is already a de facto Russian proxy, could Iran become so too? Is Vlad's strategy to control access to Gulf oil and therefore force countries to buy Russian crude?
 

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Discussion Starter #500
my HUGE mistake I meant George Herbert Walker Bush who chose not to go into Iraq.

(early morning posting is always iffy)
I think daddy was smart enough to chase Saddam's troops out of Kuwait with their tails between their legs, but stop at the Iraqi border.
Saddam Hussein's and his touted Republican Guard loss of face might have helped to foster an internal coup in Iraq, making 'Operation Iraqi Freedom' unnecessary instead of an ill conceived adventure.
If you read the US diplomatic exchanges with Saddam Hussein prior to the invasion, he fell right into the US trap.
 
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