[bwcole]

Hello Fellow MB friends,

My wife drives the most favorite car in the fleet, our 2003 e500 Sport. We resurrected this car from being sent to Pick-N-Pull a couple of years ago, and with some work, it's become my wife's daily, and it's a beautiful car. It drives so nice, reminds me a lot of my old '95 e420. This car has "moon" mileage, currently 273k.

Anyhow, I have no brake warnings on the dash, but I have noticed that the SBC pump runs very frequently now, much more than it ever has. If I "pump" the brake pedal 4 times, it will cause the pump to cycle. It's pretty loud so that's probably why I noticed it more.

Performance-wise, all seems to be in order. Would you say it's time to take it in to MBZ and call on the SBC warranty?

I'm eternally DIY, and there's no way I could own such a car if I were paying the current $300/hr rate at the dealer - so I'm hoping there's no "issues" calling in this warranty.

Thanks much,
~Bryan

 

[tabijan]

You can take it to MB but you’ll be on the hook for the cost of diagnosis if the fault isn’t covered by warranty.

Sixto
05 E320 wagon 198K miles

 

[bwcole]

Gotcha. all good..Thank you!

 

[peterjmdr]

Hello Fellow MB friends,

My wife drives the most favorite car in the fleet, our 2003 e500 Sport. We resurrected this car from being sent to Pick-N-Pull a couple of years ago, and with some work, it's become my wife's daily, and it's a beautiful car. It drives so nice, reminds me a lot of my old '95 e420. This car has "moon" mileage, currently 273k.

Anyhow, I have no brake warnings on the dash, but I have noticed that the SBC pump runs very frequently now, much more than it ever has. If I "pump" the brake pedal 4 times, it will cause the pump to cycle. It's pretty loud so that's probably why I noticed it more.

Performance-wise, all seems to be in order. Would you say it's time to take it in to MBZ and call on the SBC warranty?

I'm eternally DIY, and there's no way I could own such a car if I were paying the current $300/hr rate at the dealer - so I'm hoping there's no "issues" calling in this warranty.

Thanks much,
~Bryan

Mercedes-Benz has extended the warranty 25 years on the SBC system.

 

[FEwolf]

Mercedes-Benz has extended the warranty 25 years on the SBC system.

Good to Know

thsnks

 

[jpeter6981]

MB replaced the entire SBC system on my 2004 wagon a year ago, but it met all of the criteria, including setting the brake service error. The previous SBC unit was getting noisy and would run quite often prior to failure.

 

[Melbeaux]

Good to Know thsnks

Warranty runs until April 2029. My 2004 SBC pump was running often, then brake service error showed up. Codes in brake system showed C2131 = Pressure Reservoir Faulty and C225C = ABS Control, just had the sbc pressure reservoir replaced under the warranty

 

[bwcole]

Thanks for all the feedback. I don't have the scary red warning yet, but I'll have to scan, it may have left some codes.. Definitely the pump running a lot. Thanks again!

 

[Billtim]

Thanks for all the feedback. I don't have the scary red warning yet, but I'll have to scan, it may have left some codes.. Definitely the pump running a lot. Thanks again!

Thanks for all the feedback. I don't have the scary red warning yet, but I'll have to scan, it may have left some codes.. Definitely the pump running a lot. Thanks again!

In the R230 section I added a new thread "Questions on the finer points of the "dreaded" SBC problem." I am trying to investigate the issue myself. I also found a youtube video with a responsible speaker with a lot to say on the SBC issue. I need to review it more, but he answered my question about the number of brake counts before codes start to appear ( 360,000). I would have your SBC scanned using something like the Foxwell NT510 Elite that I just bought. Your pump running a lot is a warning sign that the brushes on the pump motor are near the end of their life from what I've read.

If you do go to the dealer for warranty replacement, many of us would be interested in hearing about your experience. It makes sense that before going to the dealer, you should have some history like flagged codes or exceeding the brake counter code so the dealer can document that there is a problem. I have not been able to find a write-up of someone's experience.

 

[DieselBound]

My brother recently picked up an E320 (CDI) that had the SBC replaced by a dealer (have paperwork). My Foxwell came up with this: "Brake counter current lifetime 605755". It would appear that it's not a certainty that dealers reset the counter. I am unable to provide any assurances to my brother as to the state of the SBC.

 

[Billtim]

My brother recently picked up an E320 (CDI) that had the SBC replaced by a dealer (have paperwork). My Foxwell came up with this: "Brake counter current lifetime 605755". It would appear that it's not a certainty that dealers reset the counter. I am unable to provide any assurances to my brother as to the state of the SBC.

I have some other information to send to you but need to get it organized first. Meanwhile, have a look at particular what I show below. Check out all the comments of Mackhack- in particular his last comment. This was written in 2014 but is applicable today. I would not worry about the state of the SBC in your brother's car based on the counter lifetime count after reading what I sent unless there are other issues but for 2005-era cars without SBC conversions, it's a different matter. How many miles on your brother's car?
WARNING: SBC Control Unit - Mercedes Benz Warranty Run Around

 

[Billtim]

I have some other information to send to you but need to get it organized first. Meanwhile, have a look at particular what I show below. Check out all the comments of Mackhack- in particular his last comment. This was written in 2014 but is applicable today. I would not worry about the state of the SBC in your brother's car based on the counter lifetime count after reading what I sent unless there are other issues but for 2005-era cars without SBC conversions, it's a different matter. How many miles on your brother's car?
WARNING: SBC Control Unit - Mercedes Benz Warranty Run Around

Also, on the SBC replacement dealer paperwork you said came with the car, did it state the reasons why the unit was replaced?

 

[Witek_M]

I have some other information to send to you but need to get it organized first. Meanwhile, have a look at particular what I show below. Check out all the comments of Mackhack- in particular his last comment. This was written in 2014 but is applicable today. I would not worry about the state of the SBC in your brother's car based on the counter lifetime count after reading what I sent unless there are other issues but for 2005-era cars without SBC conversions, it's a different matter. How many miles on your brother's car?
WARNING: SBC Control Unit - Mercedes Benz Warranty Run Around

You need to do some reading. Specifically systems behaviour in case of failure.

 

[DieselBound]

The SBC was replaced something like 5 years ago (I think). Car's got about 160k miles if I recall correctly. It was one of the rare cases of outright failure: not sure if the previous owner ignored warnings and continued to drive and that it ended up going into its severely-limited-braking mode/condition (almost crashed into the rear of some big truck).

That thread is one big bucket of worms! Not sure when MB decided to extend the warranty but I think they're a bit more responsive than they were back in 2014.

MB monitors brake activations in order to avoid outright failure. They knew that the brushes in the motors would eventually wear out. Absolutely nothing to argue on that point. BUT! It's not like we're talking starter motor, alternator or wiper motors here, we're talking about something that it responsible for braking. MB's only way out of this was to build in a limiter: and that's the activation count (NOT brake pedal pushes, but motor activations- opening a door causes the motor to run [or, that is, build up pressure IF required]). Yes, all braking systems CAN fail. The issue with SBC has more to do with the logic. All is fine as long as people do as they're instructed (for the overwhelming cases), but human nature as it is always finds plenty of human who ignore warnings.

So, to reiterate, the activation count is a real thing and and does serve an important purpose. No one seems to know what the magic number is or what happens through various resets (some resets can be performed w/o changing the actual physical state of the SBC [I don't want to think about that but it is said that there are conditions in which it makes sense]). The numbers have no bearing on whether the motor is or soon will crap out- it's just a parameter (perhaps dealers could/can actually tell the state of the brushes? [and that's why, so I've heard, that in some cases the counter is just reset to some lower value, codes cleared and customer sent down the road]).

The paperwork, according to my brother, stated that the dealer replaced the SBC with a re-manufactured unit. I don't know if he's misinterpreting what was written but that's what he told me.

To complicate things a bit, the car is for my nephew and it's currently garaged for another couple of months. Don't ask. Just mentioning because neither my brother or myself has any meaningful exposure to the car: I checked it out and that's about it; it was driven away from purchase and parked where it continues to sit for now.

 

[DieselBound]

I'll add that my restoration project's SBC count is about 58k. The part number shows it to be a later version, one that was not available when the car was built; these two things, together, tell me that it's likely to have been an MB warranty replacement: I pray that's the case as a bunch of other work was done by a monkey with a wrench [trashed head due to botched glowplug replacement]. My car was purchased remotely, from a used car dealer; no paperwork (but the car is clearly documented as being one-owner [before I bought it]).

That's about all I could add to this topic. I'll end by stating that if there are any braking issues on cars with SBCs that people SHOULD have them dealt with ASAP. (and here in the US where the warranty runs until sometime in 2029 there's no excuse)

 

[Billtim]

I'll add that my restoration project's SBC count is about 58k. The part number shows it to be a later version, one that was not available when the car was built; these two things, together, tell me that it's likely to have been an MB warranty replacement: I pray that's the case as a bunch of other work was done by a monkey with a wrench [trashed head due to botched glowplug replacement]. My car was purchased remotely, from a used car dealer; no paperwork (but the car is clearly documented as being one-owner [before I bought it]).

That's about all I could add to this topic. I'll end by stating that if there are any braking issues on cars with SBCs that people SHOULD have them dealt with ASAP. (and here in the US where the warranty runs until sometime in 2029 there's no excuse)

Thanks for the information on the 160K miles and 600K count. My car has 96K and a count of 700K. I have not done a complete check of the status of the SBC in the car. I think we agree that the count and the overall status of the SBC are related but not directly.

From what I have read in Mercedes literature, I think my car is eligible for a warranty repair based on the count but I'm not sure yet. I have yet to read of someone getting a replacement SBC based only on the count. There is always another problem. I suppose I could just continue to drive and just keep an eye on it but that really doesn't suit me when there is a warranty offered. I think the count triggers dash code somewhere around 300K but I don't know that for sure. Until I find out more, it is an unresolved issue as far as I am concerned.

 

[DieselBound]

Go talk to the dealer and see. Make sure your concerns are documented. And come back here and update everyone.

Would be interesting to get a thermal reading of how warm that motor gets. I suspect the vacuum canister is failing and that's causing the motor to run more. Not sure if the dealer would identify it any more than an SBC failure (or failing).

 

[Witek_M]

I suspect the vacuum canister is failing and that's causing the motor to run more. Not sure if the dealer would identify it any more than an SBC failure (or failing).

Failing pressure reservoir will make pump run more often. Typically it sets fault with white warning "Visit Workshop"

 

[shertex]

As a data point, last time I checked my actuation count was 537,000 at 184,000 miles. I have never received any brake messages of any kind.

My other CDI is lower....I think 360,000 at 160,000 miles. Extended warranty expires in 2031. With my driving, I do 30,000 actuations every 10,000 miles. And, since I rotate between three MB diesels, I suspect I will not get a brake message until I'm out of warranty.

 

[konigstiger]

Until I find out more, it is an unresolved issue as far as I am concerned.