Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

21 - 40 of 519 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,427 Posts
I guess you could always explore the AGW coding options but even if you were able to make it a slave, I doubt the new Comand would be able to use the FM tuner from the rear instead of the integrated tuner.

Did you get it up and running otherwise? Perhaps better to just start rewiring the speakers, antenna etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,235 Posts
i cant used?
so the unit i purchased is useless
what shall i do wit it?
any buyer? Euro2500
Good luck with finding someone stupid enough buying this device from you. You got it for 1200 Euros despite everyone told you this most like won't work out and now you're trying to make more than a 100 % profit off of your misstep? Didn't you write earlier that you like to explore and learn and that 1200 Euros wouldn't be a problem? I guess your eyes were bigger than your wallet!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,427 Posts
Good luck with finding someone stupid enough buying this device from you. You got it for 1200 Euros despite everyone told you this most like won't work out and now you're trying to make more than a 100 % profit off of your misstep? Didn't you write earlier that you like to explore and learn and that 1200 Euros wouldn't be a problem? I guess your eyes were bigger than your wallet!
I did not notice that, I could have offered 1200 but I say 500 Euros now. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
no guys

dont worry... i have not even get the item yet.. it has been paid but is being sent by EMS.. probably will be here next mon/tue... i m very confident that it will work.
wont be selling it anyway... if i m serious to sell it off, it wont be in this forum anyway..

so mackhack, in actual fact, after taking some measurements, i found that my eyeball weights approximately 7.5 grams and measures approximately 24.7 millimeters in its anterior-to-posterior diameter BUT my wallet is pretty thick inside, it measures 100 X 125 X 25.7 mm.. at least the thickness is similar to my eyeball diameter.

I will post a step by step and pictorial guide to share once i have made it work

cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Making rear AGW a MOST Slave

Hello
I m in need of help here.. Can we do somthing about retrofitting a NEW COMAND NTG2.5?
Since there is already an built in AGW in the new COMAND is there a way to make my existing AUDIO GATEWAY N93/1 to be slave instead of master? If this can be programmed then i do not need to extend the antenna and speakers wires from the back trunk to the front to the NEW COMAND. Is this possible?

I understand that in a MOST ring, only one device can be made master.
In my case currently, the AGW is the MASTER and my existing COMAND(old) is slave.

PLEASE HELP, i m sure there are some experts or great engineers here!

CHeers
Hi Rick,
Wish you best of luck in getting this to work - I'd want to know too.

The AGW in the NTG1 system is the MOST master while the AGW in the BD0880 unit is built-in as you have rightly summarised. Was your NTG1 Command-APS factory installed or upgraded from Audio-20? If upgraded from Audio-20, then you can just as easily swap out the Becker Command-APS with the newer Melco BD0880 and leave the cable harness/AGW redundant.

I'm not sure why you'd want to utilize the rear AGW unless you have a H-K Logic7.

I've noticed that the BD-0880 has a set of jumpers in the rear, perhaps it can be set to be a slave and the AGW by-passed? Someone might be able to get you the pin-diagrams for the BD-0880 to see if this can be done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,427 Posts
Has anyone figured out from EPC if the Sound amplifier is different for the new Comand? After a quick look I can find two parts that seem to be valid for 527 (Euro Comand) or 810. It is a bit difficult to read EPC when the same option code has been used for the old and the new Comand.

From the wiring diagrams I conclude that the NTG2.5 sound amplifier is a completely different part, it is even named differently. It could be simpler to replace the amplifier to avoid re-routing speaker wires but the radio antenna etc. would still have to be routed to the front.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
hi MoonDragon67
Thanks for your comment.

maybe you could help me.
My car W211 MY2002 was originally fitted with somthing looks exactly like Audio 20 but it is not with CD instead with cassette. Is this consider Audio20?

If my Audio20 Cassette is similar to Audio20 CD, then I will do like you said, leave the AGW in truck redundant.

The reason I wanna use the AGW is because I tought this will safe me from extending the speakers wires and antenna wires to the NEW NTG2.5 COMAND/BD0880.

If you are right,
(1) does that means that I will still maintain the AGW as MOST master? and my NEW NTG2.5 COMAND (BD0880) as slave?
(2) I just ignore the speakers wiring connectors at the back of the NEW NTG2.5 COMAND?

If this is so, then it is sure gonna be much easier.

Please let me know ok?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,427 Posts
You have had the Audio 20 CC unit in the car originally, not the Audio 20 CD. Audio 20 CC would use AGW equally as a Comand or Audio 50 APS and the tuner plus the audio amp and speaker wires then are at the trunk. This makes the old Comand retrofit easy but not the new NTG2.5 device.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
686 Posts
hi MoonDragon67
Thanks for your comment.

maybe you could help me.
My car W211 MY2002 was originally fitted with somthing looks exactly like Audio 20 but it is not with CD instead with cassette. Is this consider Audio20?

If my Audio20 Cassette is similar to Audio20 CD, then I will do like you said, leave the AGW in truck redundant.

The reason I wanna use the AGW is because I tought this will safe me from extending the speakers wires and antenna wires to the NEW NTG2.5 COMAND/BD0880.

If you are right,
(1) does that means that I will still maintain the AGW as MOST master? and my NEW NTG2.5 COMAND (BD0880) as slave?
(2) I just ignore the speakers wiring connectors at the back of the NEW NTG2.5 COMAND?

If this is so, then it is sure gonna be much easier.

Please let me know ok?

Thanks
you are in unexplored territory here... there are a number of unknowns that will make the retrofit anywhere from difficult to impossible.. here they are..

1. the phone/vcs wiring currently runs to the MHI(and/or VCS) module in the trunk.. that will have to be extended all the way up to the radio for the built in bluetooth to work. There *is* a comfort telephony option on the NTG2.5 which is designed to fit the old system to the new one but even with SDS you will have no possible way to change it due to the fact that all NTG2.5 radios are SCN coded.

2. the amplifier takes the data from the AGW... the AGW gets controlled from the front unit. There is no way to make a 2.5 radio control an AGW because the 2.5 radio have the AGW actually built inside. the old AGW will need to be removed which will mean that the antenna leads for the radio will also need to be extended to the front.

3. The amplifier is probably not going to work with the NTG2.5 radio for MY 2003. you would have better luck if you have an 08 MY but my guess (and this is a guess) is that the MOST channel is going to be wrong and not work.. and its not programmable either. you have 2 choices.. get the newer amplifier and retrofit it as well or use the speaker outputs directly on the back of the deck.

4. The CAN messaging format is different between MY 2003 and MY 2008 and this is inportant for how things like the steering wheel controls and instrument cluster display work with the radio.

5. navi is in the back (if you have it) so the GPS antenna will also need to be extended to the front. and the navi processor removed as well.

6. all the extra stuff is going to involve additional modules.. TV tuner is seperate.. the cool ipod with the on-screen interface is a seperate module that costs about $600.

Like I said.. there is alot that is different and while I like to encourage people to DIY these sorts of projects this is honestly one where you are out of your depth. Im not trying to pick on you, just letting you know what you are up against.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Hi rob13572468
Thanks for the info.

Can you please tell me your opinion?
There is a individual who claim that he can built a cable hardness with proper connectors so that I unplug connectors from AGW. then insert into the female connector in his wire hardness. This then will be pull to the HU with the FAKRA connector that will just be plug n play.

As far as i know there are 6 connectors in AGW, if unplug all and extend to front it may sound workable, whats your opinion?

Also, if i were to fabricate this wire hardness, can some1 recommend where to purchase all the connectors and accessories??

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Retrofit of NTG2.5 Command/BD0880

hi MoonDragon67
Thanks for your comment.

maybe you could help me.
My car W211 MY2002 was originally fitted with somthing looks exactly like Audio 20 but it is not with CD instead with cassette. Is this consider Audio20?

If my Audio20 Cassette is similar to Audio20 CD, then I will do like you said, leave the AGW in truck redundant.

The reason I wanna use the AGW is because I tought this will safe me from extending the speakers wires and antenna wires to the NEW NTG2.5 COMAND/BD0880.

If you are right,
(1) does that means that I will still maintain the AGW as MOST master? and my NEW NTG2.5 COMAND (BD0880) as slave?
(2) I just ignore the speakers wiring connectors at the back of the NEW NTG2.5 COMAND?

If this is so, then it is sure gonna be much easier.

Please let me know ok?

Thanks
Hi Rick,
Now that I understand that you have a MY2002 W211 with Audio20-CC and you have now some advice from fellow forum members, I would say that the retrofit of the NTG2.5 would take a lot of work and as Rob mentioned "venturing into unchartered territory" in a sense.

The retrofit harness which I purchased (and which you alluded to?) will be used for upgrading a MY2008 W211 with Audio20-CDC into the NTG1 Command since the Audio20-CDC lacks the rear AGW and hence the MOST fibre. This is because the Audio20-CDC has the MOST master integrated into the HU (the "AGW" if you must call it) - this is similar to the set-up with the NTG2.5 Command. So in theory it is easier to swap Audio20-CDC to NTG2.5 Command as both HUs have speaker level wires being run out from the right places ie below the dashboard. You already MOST fibre-optic linkage between the Audio20-CC and the AGW in your trunk.

What you are trying to achieve is to make the AGW in the trunk (which is the MOST master in your Audio20-CC) a slave unit in the MOST ring while using the built-in AGW in the BD-0880 as the master. I'm not sure that this can be done.

If you are determined to pursue the BD-0880 upgrade route, my suggestion is to figure out how the H-K Logic7 is being implemented in MY2009 W211. DieselBenz might have the part number of the H-K Logic7 amp which might enable you to go into EPC to check the associated parts for implementing Logic7 - it might offer clues as to whether your existing fibre-optic cable can be used and whether the H-K amp has the pre-requisite speaker outs that will enable you to use the same pre-existing speaker outs in your AGW (I mean if you are going to go through the trouble with re-wiring, might as well shoot for a better sound system at the same time; and ditching your older AGW for a H-K amp + rear subwoofer/surround speakers for a 12 speaker sound experience). But this might go beyond a simple DIY.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be better off swapping out the Audio20-CC with the NTG1 Command-APS. Becker units such as the BE-7023 (comes with Fakra video in / TV-out for rear screen) or the BE-7039. Optional add-ins like the Navi / DVTB / UHI / VCS if you want the cool-stuff later. You will retain the use of the AGW unit in the trunk and your existing wiring.

Best of luck in your project.
/Your neighbour from across the causeway
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
HI Moondragon,,
Thank you so much for your comment/input. Is good to know that you are just over the causeway..

In fact, i have already installed a COMAND APS with DVD/MP3. It was a very installation previously, now i m trying to be more adventurous.. i have got the BD0880 in hand (now i found there is BZ9880 which comes with 6DVD Changer built in) and is sitting here starring at me doing nothing. I am doing research and hoping to find some expert here to help me out.

Following are my my uncertainties, can some one please reply by item number accordingly will be of great help.

(1) My old comand is taken out, there is only one connector in the dashboard in front, black square 4 pins, (MOST IN/OUT) P1=T.30, P2T.31, P3=wakeup & P4=reserved.

(2) At the Audio Gateway (N93/1), I found 6 connectors, only able to figure out a 4 nos,
Connector #4 i have center and sub woofer speakers, I can extend
a) Sub 1
b) Sub 2
c) Center
d) FR
e) RR
f) FL
g) RL
I can extend d,e,f & g to the BD0880 but how about a & b?
(this is where i think moondragon suggest HK Logic 7) but i will take this as a 2nd step

Question is now
a) SUB woofer
b) Center speakers will be left unpowered and redundant!


(3) In connector #1, I can try to find the CAN B (High & Low) in the AGW but what to do with
a) electrical wake up
b) TEL Mute
c) MOST IN
d) MOST OUT

Do I have to loop MOST in/out since it is not in use and complete the MOST ring?

(4) What to do with connector #5, power supply and antenna
4 pins connector

(5) What to do with connector#6, MICROPHONE
4 pins connector

(6) What is connector #2 and #3 for? ( in AGW)
Need advice here


(7) PLEASE help me the PIN Layout for the NEW Comand.

I only have found the following

a) what is the 2 white fakra connector -> Radio antenna
b) what is fakra Green connector -> Video IN/TV/Reverse Camera
b) what is fakra Blue connector -> GPS antenna
b) what is fakra Curry(orchard yellow) connector -> GSM antenna

(8) There is one 18PIN connector (square in the middle)
What is this for? Please help!

(9) I need the Fakra Quadlock dual DIN PIN layout

I know there are 3 segments with 4 connectors

a) connector #1 T12 (12 pins) -> i think is reserved and not in use
b) connector #2 T12 (12 pins) -> Can-H, Can-L, Antenna??, Tel MUte
c) connector #3 (16 pins) -> Speakers & Power, 4 speakers only (FL,RL,FR & RR)
d) connector #4 (4 pins) MOST IN and OUT, there is a pair of male & female?

PLEASE HELP

also, Moondragon, or any1 else
Can you please tell me where to buy the connectors? Fakra, Quadlock?

PLEASE x 3

Cheers

Rick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
686 Posts
Hi rob13572468
Thanks for the info.

Can you please tell me your opinion?
There is a individual who claim that he can built a cable hardness with proper connectors so that I unplug connectors from AGW. then insert into the female connector in his wire hardness. This then will be pull to the HU with the FAKRA connector that will just be plug n play.

As far as i know there are 6 connectors in AGW, if unplug all and extend to front it may sound workable, whats your opinion?

Also, if i were to fabricate this wire hardness, can some1 recommend where to purchase all the connectors and accessories??

Thanks

yes, this is exactly what would need to be done. I have been approaching the same conversion but for a 2006 ML which is easier because the AGW is built into the older command. The only thing that the he did not mention is that you would also need an additional harness for the telephone wiring from the back to the front as well...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
686 Posts
(1) My old comand is taken out, there is only one connector in the dashboard in front, black square 4 pins, (MOST IN/OUT) P1=T.30, P2T.31, P3=wakeup & P4=reserved.

(2) At the Audio Gateway (N93/1), I found 6 connectors, only able to figure out a 4 nos,
Connector #4 i have center and sub woofer speakers, I can extend
a) Sub 1
b) Sub 2
c) Center
d) FR
e) RR
f) FL
g) RL
I can extend d,e,f & g to the BD0880 but how about a & b?
(this is where i think moondragon suggest HK Logic 7) but i will take this as a 2nd step

Question is now
a) SUB woofer
b) Center speakers will be left unpowered and redundant!
if you decide to use the outputs from the radio directly then you will not be able to power the subwoofer or center speaker without additional aftermarket amplifiers. You can take the full range speaker outputs from the NTG2.5 radio and use them to run the front and rear speakers. Then you use a converter to break out line level outputs form the speaker outputs and thos can then be used to run amplifiers that would power the subs and center speaker.

(3) In connector #1, I can try to find the CAN B (High & Low) in the AGW but what to do with
a) electrical wake up
b) TEL Mute
c) MOST IN
d) MOST OUT

Do I have to loop MOST in/out since it is not in use and complete the MOST ring?
CAN-B will need to be brought up to the front for the NTG2.5. If you do not have any other module on the MOST ring (e.g. you decide not to get the amplifier or the ipod UCI) then the radio must be programmed so that the MOST ring is disabled. Also electrical wakeup is only used to singal other MOST devices to turn on so it is not needed either.

Tel Mute is a mute input on the amplifier that mutes the system when the TELE-AID is operating (e.g. during an emergency or info call) if you want mute and do not get the amplifier then the mute wire gets run up to the radio instead.

(4) What to do with connector #5, power supply and antenna
4 pins connector

(5) What to do with connector#6, MICROPHONE
4 pins connector

(6) What is connector #2 and #3 for? ( in AGW)
Need advice here
#5 is the output to the antenna amplifier.. That would have to be wired so that the new radio turns on the antenna or wired so that the antenna is always on. The NTG2.5 radio does not have an antenna output as the antenna amp activation is done through the SAM on newer platforms.

#6 microphone connector is only used for tuning the amp. you dont have to worry about that.

#2,3 are the actual antenna connectors which would also need to be extended up to the new command radio.

(7) PLEASE help me the PIN Layout for the NEW Comand.

I only have found the following

a) what is the 2 white fakra connector -> Radio antenna
b) what is fakra Green connector -> Video IN/TV/Reverse Camera
b) what is fakra Blue connector -> GPS antenna
b) what is fakra Curry(orchard yellow) connector -> GSM antenna

(8) There is one 18PIN connector (square in the middle)
What is this for? Please help!

(9) I need the Fakra Quadlock dual DIN PIN layout

I know there are 3 segments with 4 connectors

a) connector #1 T12 (12 pins) -> i think is reserved and not in use
b) connector #2 T12 (12 pins) -> Can-H, Can-L, Antenna??, Tel MUte
c) connector #3 (16 pins) -> Speakers & Power, 4 speakers only (FL,RL,FR & RR)
d) connector #4 (4 pins) MOST IN and OUT, there is a pair of male & female?
the yellow FAKRA connector is not GSM but rather the bluetooth antenna.

The black 18 pin connector is the audio/video input/output connector. it has DVD A/V output as well as a dedicated audio input and video input.

The Quadlok connector uses only the white 12 pin plug and the main 16 pin connector. only one MOST pair is in use, the other is not.

the 12 pin white plug houses the telephone microphone inputs for voice recognition and bluetooth as well as the loop-through output for the teleaid module.

the main 16 pin connector only currently has 5 connections in use:

12V
GND
CANB-L
CANB-H
WAKE

I worked out all the NTG2.5 connections a while ago. If you really get serious about doing this I can get the exact pinouts for you.


Can you please tell me where to buy the connectors? Fakra, Quadlock?
FAKRA connectors and the RG-176 cable are available through electronics suppliers (in the US we use digikey or mouser).. you can also try newark.

Quadlok and the majority of connectors that you will need are all AMP/TYCO manufactured parts. the quadlok connectors are available (I have 100 of them in stock in case you want some). The majority of the parts including the pin connectors that go inside the quadlok housing are available from MB parts. certain connectors like the opposite gender connectors for the AGW are not going to be available at all in quantities under 3000 which means you will have to splice extensions on to your existing harnesses.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Dear ROB, thanks for kind help

if you decide to use the outputs from the radio directly then you will not be able to power the subwoofer or center speaker without additional aftermarket amplifiers. You can take the full range speaker outputs from the NTG2.5 radio and use them to run the front and rear speakers. Then you use a converter to break out line level outputs form the speaker outputs and thos can then be used to run amplifiers that would power the subs and center speaker.
OK,this part is understood quite clealy

CAN-B will need to be brought up to the front for the NTG2.5. If you do not have any other module on the MOST ring (e.g. you decide not to get the amplifier or the ipod UCI) then the radio must be programmed so that the MOST ring is disabled. Also electrical wakeup is only used to singal other MOST devices to turn on so it is not needed either.
I have a CDC in the MOST ring. So do I have to extend the AGW wakeup line to my NTG2.5? <or> doI just leave this cable alone as NTG2.5 will be the master and is switch on by the 'ON' button in the NTG2.5?

Tel Mute is a mute input on the amplifier that mutes the system when the TELE-AID is operating (e.g. during an emergency or info call) if you want mute and do not get the amplifier then the mute wire gets run up to the radio instead.
OK, wil leave this wires from this connector alone.

#5 is the output to the antenna amplifier.. That would have to be wired so that the new radio turns on the antenna or wired so that the antenna is always on. The NTG2.5 radio does not have an antenna output as the antenna amp activation is done through the SAM on newer platforms.
So, shall I leave this wire alone? since you mentioned that the new NTG2.5 doesnt have anttena outpiut?

#6 microphone connector is only used for tuning the amp. you dont have to worry about that.
Why it is call MICOPHONE? Isnt it suppost to be linked to the mic? Please explain

#2,3 are the actual antenna connectors which would also need to be extended up to the new command radio.
OK, if extend to the new NTG2.5, which connect shall i link?


the yellow FAKRA connector is not GSM but rather the bluetooth antenna.
If my currently my car dont have phone support, can i use the bluetooth phone? Is the phone features fully built in the new NTG2.5 or do i still need to have a car with phone installed to make the bluetooth work?


The black 18 pin connector is the audio/video input/output connector. it has DVD A/V output as well as a dedicated audio input and video input.
Can you please provide me with the PINOUT? thanks:bowdown:

The Quadlok connector uses only the white 12 pin plug and the main 16 pin connector. only one MOST pair is in use, the other is not.
OK understood

the 12 pin white plug houses the telephone microphone inputs for voice recognition and bluetooth as well as the loop-through output for the teleaid module.

the main 16 pin connector only currently has 5 connections in use:

12V
GND
CANB-L
CANB-H
WAKE
Please provide PINOUT

I worked out all the NTG2.5 connections a while ago. If you really get serious about doing this I can get the exact pinouts for you.
YES PLEASE DO! I am damn serious and even dream about it at night. hehe..

FAKRA connectors and the RG-176 cable are available through electronics suppliers (in the US we use digikey or mouser).. you can also try newark.

Quadlok and the majority of connectors that you will need are all AMP/TYCO manufactured parts. the quadlok connectors are available (I have 100 of them in stock in case you want some). The majority of the parts including the pin connectors that go inside the quadlok housing are available from MB parts. certain connectors like the opposite gender connectors for the AGW are not going to be available at all in quantities under 3000 which means you will have to splice extensions on to your existing harnesses.

Can i have a piece from you? How do i pay u?

and finally i really NEED the PIN OUT for the NTG2.5 (BD0880) PLease provide that to me or you may email to me at [email protected].. thank you so so much. muakzz


I am also intending to attache the reverse camera, so i m in need of the pinout for this too

thanks

THANKS
 
21 - 40 of 519 Posts
Top