Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
2001 Mercedes Benz ML430 w163,2008 Mercedes Benz CLS550, RIP Mercedes Benz 1996 e320 w210
Joined
·
520 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi Everyone:)

So i have had this issue for a period of time. When i start the car in the morning it starts up fine and no problem there might be one occation a little noise like "gr" but barrely noticible. However, on the warm starts it gives a bigger and longer noise like "GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" and sometimes it even did not start but did after few starts. So before all this staring to happen and when i first noticed the noice i went to the MB dealership and they said it was the starter althought they could not tell at first look, had to make an appoinment. So I dont really think it is the starter it may sound more like Crankshaft position sensor? 1996 E320 220001 km:D

So what do you guys think it might be CPS or the starter.:confused:

Thanks:bowdown:
 

·
Premium Member
2001 E320 - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 107,000+
Joined
·
17,193 Posts
It sounds like the starter motor to me but I am not one of the experts here. From what I've read, the CPS is more likely to produce a no start when the engine has run, been turned off, and restarted warm.
 

·
Registered
2001 Mercedes Benz ML430 w163,2008 Mercedes Benz CLS550, RIP Mercedes Benz 1996 e320 w210
Joined
·
520 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
thanks for reply Musikmann

How long would it take for removal of that bugger (starter) would this be a hard thing to do and is there any DIY or sites that would have instructions on how to remove the starter?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
03 E320 4M Wagon & 97 E320
Joined
·
3,926 Posts
Warm start problems (only) are USUALLY related to slightly leaky injectors. Run some Techron and see if this improves gradually.

Your hot start is also fine, right? Hot start means you re-start the car within 10 minutes or so after shut down.

However, (leaky injector related) warm start problems usually start the car but it dies immediately. A second start is usually successful.

Do some searches for warm start and double start in various forums and see if they have the same symptoms as yours.

This is a more common issue in the M103 engines but happens to high mileage M104 as well.
 

·
Registered
2001 Mercedes Benz ML430 w163,2008 Mercedes Benz CLS550, RIP Mercedes Benz 1996 e320 w210
Joined
·
520 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Warm start problems (only) are USUALLY related to slightly leaky injectors. Run some Techron and see if this improves gradually.

Your hot start is also fine, right? Hot start means you re-start the car within 10 minutes or so after shut down.

However, (leaky injector related) warm start problems usually start the car but it dies immediately. A second start is usually successful.

Do some searches for warm start and double start in various forums and see if they have the same symptoms as yours.

This is a more common issue in the M103 engines but happens to high mileage M104 as well.
Thanks for reply:bowdown:
I dont think this is the issue since it starts from the first time it just makes this annoying noise "GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" and stops after 10 secs.(the noise stops not the engine:))
 

·
Registered
96 E-320, 91 190E, various and sundry Euro and American vehicles
Joined
·
12,141 Posts
Same sound out of my 96 E-320, and it is not starter related. It will go off, and when cold and I drive up town (about 1/4 mi) and stop at a light, I can hear the sound kick back on for a shorter duration. It does sorta sound like an air pump. Nothing seems effected as far as the running condition. It isn't starter related, because it starts after the car is running, and goes off, but can come back on later. When the car is warmed up, I don't hear it again.
I am waiting to hear answers on this as well. Someone once said smog pump.

Aardvark
 

·
Registered
03 E320 4M Wagon & 97 E320
Joined
·
3,926 Posts
Sorry I mis-understood your OP.

I agree with a few posts that it is most likely the air pump, aka smog pump. The Mercedes official name is Secondary Air Injection Pump.

It will make a whistle or whirring type of noise (like you sometimes hear on an airplane when it is in the ascending and descending stages).

The noise is usually from the bearing of the electrical motor. In the 96 and 97 E320's, this pump is all eletric. The little lubrication on the bearing is dry or gone so it makes this noise. My 1997 E320 has a little of this noise too.

To make sure it is the air pump, you can pull the wiring harness on the pump (It may or may not trig a CEL). Just looking through the fuse diagams I have but I cannot find a fuse for this pump. I think the pump is accessible from under then engine after removing the belly panels, for our M104 engines.

The part looks like this but you will probably not be replacing it when you see its price.

http://www.autohausaz.com/secure/PartImages/0580000007.jpg

Here is a EPC pic and item 17 is the pump.

I have read people successfully re-lube the bearing with heavy oil or light grease by removing the pump and case. Others, however, caution that the canes are made of graphite material and oil may have negative effect on them.

I will be looking at mine in the summer. If any of you does it before me, please report back on which fuse and the exact location of the pump.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
96 E-320, 91 190E, various and sundry Euro and American vehicles
Joined
·
12,141 Posts
Hey Thanks loubapache.
I have to believe that is what it is. You describe the sound perfectly, and that whirring sound can (on my car) go for as long as a few minutes.
It sounds like from what you describe, it probably is not an item that will leave me stranded on the side of the road somewhere. If wrong, tell me so. "Please"!
Also, from the length of time it's on, I probably have a hose leak or something, eh?

When I free up I might tear into it, but it won't be this week for sure. Looks like from the photo, the case can be gotten into, and that is a good sign that something can be done.
Pricey eh? I haven't checked on that, but being a thriftmeister, I will always try and figure out the beast before getting a mechanic involved. I only use mechanics when things get overly complex and beyond my toolboxes ability( and sometimes it's worth a tool purchase).

Thanks again

Aardvark
 

·
Registered
03 E320 4M Wagon & 97 E320
Joined
·
3,926 Posts
Found a nice re-lubing post and here it is.

PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum - View Single Post - Secondary air pump (smog pump) C Class

It is for a 1996 C220 but the pump has the same part number (Bosch 0580000007 as shown by Autohaus) so the re-lube should be identical.

It is purely an emission related equipment to assist the burning of any unburned fuel (if there is any) in the cat. It might trig a CEL but it should not have any negative effect if it even fails (if emission testing is not required like where I am :D).

BTW, a (new) pump costs over $600 even at autohaus.
 

·
Registered
03 E320 4M Wagon & 97 E320
Joined
·
3,926 Posts
Also found a post for accessing the pump in the M104 used on our W210s. This is a 1997 E320. The poster did not mention anything about re-lubing but the case removal is the same as the C class poster.

PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum - View Single Post - '97 E320 W210 EGR shutoff valve on startup

So it looks we M104 W210 owners should have enough info to quite down this pump.

Mine is not loud so I will probably take a look when I go under the car the next time, probably in the summer.
 

·
Registered
03 E320 4M Wagon & 97 E320
Joined
·
3,926 Posts
FWIW, the name of thing thing is kind of elusive.

In Mercedes WIS, it calls it Secondary Air Injection Pump.

In Mercedes EPC, it is in the the Idle Air System section.

Dealers list this in A.i.r. System and calls it A.i.r Pump.
 

·
Registered
96 E-320, 91 190E, various and sundry Euro and American vehicles
Joined
·
12,141 Posts
Hey Thanks Loubapache
Love ya! Not a gay thing, but a motorhead thing!
Yeah looks like a snap job, and at a $600 autohaus price, I'll be looking for one at a boneyard first, if the lube trick doesn't work.

Looked under the hood a little while ago whilst it was a spinnin, and it looks like the location is right below the alternator. Passenger side, front. Not a bad location, but must be gotten from underneath. I couldn't get the best visual from up top, but that's where it appears to be. Since my car has no splash pan, this should go quick (it never had it when I bought the car).

Thanks fellow Michigander! Ya Hey to Michigan, Eh?
Originally from Dearborn, but hang out in Jackson and Wolverine.
Hate Chicago, but left outa Michigan in the 82 recession. Try and get back often.

Aardvark.
 

·
Registered
03 E320 4M Wagon & 97 E320
Joined
·
3,926 Posts
That sounds like the logical location because the exhaust is on that side.

I am in Big Rapids and my daughter goes to UM at AA. I love Chicago (the western suburbs).
 

·
Registered
96 E-320, 91 190E, various and sundry Euro and American vehicles
Joined
·
12,141 Posts
Were in the Barrington/ Lk Zurich area. Ya can keep Chi-town, except for an occasional event. Beats Detroit, however, and I say that loving Michigan.
Can't let the Benz roll in the city.

Again thanks. I may just tear into that pump this weekend, and see what I run into if the weather holds. Got the garage full of toys and no room for my ride.
If I get to it, I'll post the results, but odds are slim this week(end).

Aardvark.
 

·
Registered
'01-E320 & 02-ST2
Joined
·
31,633 Posts
Were in the Barrington/ Lk Zurich area. Ya can keep Chi-town, except for an occasional event. Beats Detroit, however, and I say that loving Michigan.
Can't let the Benz roll in the city.

Again thanks. I may just tear into that pump this weekend, and see what I run into if the weather holds. Got the garage full of toys and no room for my ride.
If I get to it, I'll post the results, but odds are slim this week(end).

Aardvark.
Hey, aa. I think I would first disconnect the pump, and if the noise doesn't thereafter occur, you know that is it. Then you can tear into it. :D

I liked the warning on the autohaus part, if you have the older style you also need a harness adapter. As if $640 isn't enough, eh?

If you do tear into it, post some pics of your work with a write up, may as well have something else to add to the diy stickies.

Take care and enjoy the ride,
Greg
 

·
Registered
03 E320 4M Wagon & 97 E320
Joined
·
3,926 Posts
We might be lucky that the old pump (0001403385) was not used in the 96 and 97 E320s.

I punched that old pump number into the dealer database and it seems it is used only in the 94 - 96 C class cars.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
96 E-320, 91 190E, various and sundry Euro and American vehicles
Joined
·
12,141 Posts
Good point Greg210.
Hopefully I don't have to go through resetting codes if I disconnect.
On second thought this job is so easy (as it appears) I may just take it out and bench test it, and if necessary lube it up for future.

Also if I was set up to do so on the picture thing, I would but I am not. Not a com-po-tator guru, just a 3 fingered sloth pecking away. I will give a good blow by blow when I get to it, but something tells me it's gonna be a solid week away. Rain this weekend.

It sounds like since this is an emissions item, and Illinois still tests from 96 on up, it may be necessary to have this item running well.
.....
What's this you were the man-o-moderation? Didn't realize, but always enjoyed the comments. At least you're still at that. I realize that is time consuming, and respect your choice. And thanks for the comment here, dude!

Loving the Benz, and this site has been a joy, in that there usually is direction in the posts. Without sites like this, I might have given up on MB since the dealers are such rip offs I couldn't in good common sense keep a car with radically high repair bills. They don't break often but when they do, the advice has been here to keep the costs well in line. The DIY's are fantastic to an old Mo-town motorhead like me, and it makes life easier.
Thanks again

Aardvark

The Stable:
96 E-320, (awaiting mods and cosmetics (144K))
91 190E ( the past 8 yrs worth of dependable driving (150K))
92 Saab 900t convert (wifes baby)
92 Mustang GT (375 hp of straight line fun)
72 Saab model 96 (not good for anything but a laugh with a clown nose on)
 

·
Registered
2001 Mercedes Benz ML430 w163,2008 Mercedes Benz CLS550, RIP Mercedes Benz 1996 e320 w210
Joined
·
520 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Thanks for all replys

However i dont know if my problem is the same as listed above since the noise only comes on when i start the car. And never ever comes on when i drive so it might not be the air pump it might be something else or i dont even know, since these cars are so complexed it could be number of things. But what do you guys think since the noise only comes on for few seconds and quickly disappears and Never comes on when i drive. Also there is no noise when i start it in the morning because the car is cold however after driving her for a bit it will make the noise every time i start the car for few seconds NOT minutes.

Also I will try unplugging the air pump and see if the noise goes away!

Thanks a lot I really appreciate the comments :)
 

·
Registered
2001 Mercedes Benz ML430 w163,2008 Mercedes Benz CLS550, RIP Mercedes Benz 1996 e320 w210
Joined
·
520 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Also does anyone know the location and the number of the fuse to the air pump?
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top