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'12 Peugeot 3008 HYbrid4 (sorry!)
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

Interesting reading - German auto mag "auto, motor und sport" published its first thorough test of the W164 ML320CDI this week. I got curious and found the latest W163 test published by the same authoritative source in spring 2001. The 2001 test car had optional 275/55-17 tires, the W164 the optional 255/60-18's.

Base price W163/2001: 40,356 EUR
Base price W164/2005: 48,662 EUR

Driving dynamics:

Slalom, cones 18 m apart, loaded/unloaded:
W163: 56.3/55.9 kph
W164: 54.5/55.0 kph

ISO-slalom loaded/unloaded:
W163: 107.0/140.2 kph
W164: 118.9/117.9 kph

VDA emergency avoidance test (the "Elchtest"):
Entrance speed, loaded/unloaded:
W163: 61.4/60.0 kph
W164: 65.0/64.0 kph

Exit speed, loaded/unloaded:
W163: 49.0/47.8 kph
W164: 43.0/43.0 kph

The figures for the ISO slalom are better for the W164, but it seems to me that there isn't much foundation for the claims or the W164's dynamic superiority - the "old one" defends its territory well, and in several cases better than the new one with Airmatic and other gizmos.

The interior noise figures are better by 3dB, which is excellent, but it strikes me as strange that the interior noise level at 130 kph is exactly the same as the maximum noise level during full-throttle acceleration - 68dB.

Acceleration figures are better for the W164:
0-80 kph: 6.4 (7.6) seconds
0-100 kph: 9.4 (11.7) secs
0-140 kph 18.6 (25.7) secs,
as well as top speed:
215 (186) kph

- but at a price:
Minimum fuel consumption: 8.6 (8.5) l/100
Average fuel consumption: 13.1 (12.0) l/100.

I'm still getting mine, and I still hope we'll be happy with it, but these figures makes one think....

Have a nice Sunday,
Birger

PS - just in case anyone forgot [;)]:
VDA luggage volume:
W163: 663/2020 litres
W164: 551(503)/2050 litres
 

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Hello again Birger.

The one they testet in "Auto Motor und Sport" was it with or without Airmatic?

I drove a ML 500 without Airmatic and the difference is quite big. The non Airmatic still handles MUCH better than the old W163, but with Airmatic you can choose a suspension setting that fits you mood.

Regards from Norway!
 

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'12 Peugeot 3008 HYbrid4 (sorry!)
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Discussion Starter #3
Hi BÃ¥rd,

Yep, the one they tested in ams had the Airmatic. In fact one of the thing they were annoyed about was that the base price seemed to be fairly OK, but the options sent the final price into sticker shock zone.

Base price is, as I mentioned, 48,662 EUR. Their test vehicle, with Airmatic, leather, multicontour seats etc., etc. came to 73,167 EUR.

Please understand that I'm not saying that the W164 is a step backwards from the W163 - it's only that I fail to see the radical progress. Remember that base price is up by 8,300 EUR - and the base no longer includes the transfer case, nor the roof rails (2,152 EUR extra).

Somehow I can't grasp how progress is that you enter the emergency avoidance test a bit faster than the old car, yet come out the other side quite a bit slower. In the process, the ESP must have worked a lot more - which indicates a chassis that is in its natural state less performant.

Cheers to Norway,
Birger

PS: Regarding the Airmatic - I wonder if you can programme it to "duck" at a lower speed than 140 kph? With the speed controls currently enforced almost wherever I drive, I'll see 140 kph + in maybe 5% of my driving. The "R" is indicated to "duck" already at 120 kph - that might be more relevant. Of course you may be able to override it manually, but it would be nice if it was dealer settable.
 

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'82 380SL+'02 ML320
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My shock is that base for the 350 gas in the US is about $40,000 or about euro 34,000. How much of your price is tax? What does the competition (like LR3) cost?
 

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These prices are without tax. Car prices in general and specially SUV prices are much lower (about 20%) in the US than in Europe.
With tax will my loaded 06 ML320CDI that I am taking delivery of in september have a MSRP of 164.000 USD!!

So, you can see I am not following your complain about the prices of the new ML in the US. A quite loaded ML350 costs the same as a SLK350 and a loaded 06E350 4Matic wagon will run at around 70.000 USD while a simular equiped 06 ML350 costs 52.000 USD.
 

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Hello agian Birger.

Compared to the VW Tuareg the price of the new ML and its option is not bad. In Norway the Airsuspension of the Tuareg costs ca 2.900 EUR ex tax, and the Airmatic on the new ML costs ca 1.650 EUR. In addition is the COMAND APS cheaper in the ML than in a E-class.

I agree that the price could allways be lower, but compared the the baseprice of the 05 BMW X5 3.0d (103.636 EUR) and the 05 VW Tuareg 3.0 TDI (107.272 EUR) with the new 3.0TDI engine the new 06 ML320CDI is the cheapest with a baseprice of 101.940 EUR.

When it comes to the driving dynamics after driving my new ML350 for more than 700 km at different road conditions and trying to find roads simular to those we have in Norway (and yes I found it around the lakes in the mountain surrounding Phoenix in Arizona)the new ML is not possible to compare to the old W163. The comfort in this new ML when you are pushing it is so much higher than in the W163, but it might be that you do not drive much faster than in different tests. The ML that AMS tested does it have sportpackage (what was the wheels dimentions 17", 18" or 19" as in the sportspackage) and what setting on the Airmatic did they use when conducting these tests?
My "seat-of-pant" experience was that it was a world of difference between the sport and normal setting of Airmatic, and I would assume that you could do the slalom a bit faster when in sport than normal (the sport setting lowers the car as well 15mm).

Regards from Norway.
 

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You are too right. I was shocked that the 164 is so much more than 163, but that is a joke compared to what you pay. I thought the Euro strength would make your version much more affordable. Who knows?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
@ 5thmb1stnew:
Somehow, no one's yet told DCX the current EUR/USD rate [:(][:(][:(][:(]

@ansan/BÃ¥rd:
No, the EUR 48.662 "base" German price does include tax at 16%. "MSRP" in Germany is 41,950 EUR (but it's irrelevant, as all prices in Europe have to be quoted inclusive of taxes), thus a "base" ML (prices for the 320 and the 250 are equal) would cost approximately USD 54,535 @ "MSRP", if you consider that it takes 1.3 USD to buy a EUR.

Cheers,
Birger
 
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