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Mercedes benz w140 s600 -91, w124 200D, 230E * 3
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After reading the forum posts and trying to diagnose the problem with the best of my abilities and the tools I have, I've desided to post my progress so far.

The car in question is a late 1991-1992 600SE, engine code M102.980 or 982 (not entirely sure which one, just searched info from the net with the cars plates)

It's been left untouched since 2014 due to engine problems (rough idling, cylinders not firing etc. and right signal lamps on constantly when battery is connected)

So far both distributor caps and rotors have been changed (new bosch with identical codes) and spark plugs.
I also replaced the MAF wires to the computers (previous owner only changed the connectors and small part of the wires, originals were dust), rest of the wires in the box and harness were good looking, no cracks visible.

The injector harness top of the engine appears to be replaced (bright coloring compared to original, no cracks anywhere).

Before starting i changed the oil and found nothing out of the ordinary like flakes of metal or coolant. Only mild gasoline smell. I did spray some oil to each of the cylinders and let it sit for a day before cranking it for a first time.

The engine won't get spark to the driver side bank. I have swapped pretty much everything that can be swapped (ignition coils, ignition boxes, distributor caps, spark plug wires, cam sensors, MAF sensors)
But still the left bank won't get spark properly compared to the right. Only one weak spark occationaly.
I also constructed the blinker code reader and read the codes from the diagnostic port.
The codes reported that the crankshaft position sensors are bad. I read that they are pretty hard to replace without removing the engine.
I checked the wires and connectors to the ignition boxes and they seem to have been changed also (brand new looking, no dust or grime compared to factory wires next to them). They are 3-pin connectors. I read that there is some difference in them.

Should I try to replace them or is there something else that I should try before completely disassembling the engine and finding out that the problem was somewhere else?
I was also wondering that could the swapping have caused some codes to appear?
I don't have a star-reader or know anyone that can lend it in my area (Finland).

I apologize for my long and messy first post and possible errors in my writing. Please correct me if there is some confusions.
 

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I hope I didn't miss it in your post, did you try to swap the EZL (ignition modules)?

Also, I think you made a typo.
Engines with distributors are M120.980/981. Without are M120.982/983.
980 and 982 for W/C140. 981 and 983 for R129.

Yours ought to be M120.980

PS Before contemplating replacing the crankshaft position sensors, measure resistance at the plug. Should be in the neighborhood of 600-700 Ohms IIRC.
 

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Mercedes benz w140 s600 -91, w124 200D, 230E * 3
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sorry for the engine numbers. I couldn't find any registration documents from the glove box because my father took the papers inside his house somewhere so i googled some part stores where you search with registration plates. They usually show some extra info depending on the website. They gave both of them some reason.

Yes, I meant the EZL modules (012 545 69 32) swap didn't change anything. Happy little sparks on the right, nothing one the left.
 

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Mercedes benz w140 s600 -91, w124 200D, 230E * 3
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So a quick update.
I just realised that i have been looking the wrong wires from the ezl module (I'm an idiot:rolleyes:). So the knock sensors are new. Measured both crank position sensors and the right one showed exactly 800 ohms. The left one was dead. So it seems that I have to figure how to get to that sensor.

Anyone have any experience how to change that sensor? I can guess that it's gonna be a giant PITA, but any tips are greatly appriciated. Intake and fuel rail are surely gonna go if I even want to think about reaching there.

Also while everything is going out, is there anything else to inspect while going in there? (Already know the breather tube for the throttle bodies is one likely thing to break, if it's original.

Hopefully the rodents that I think are the cause for this (car sitting outside and in a countryside) haven't eaten anything else...
 

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Anyone have any experience how to change that sensor? I can guess that it's gonna be a giant PITA, but any tips are greatly appriciated. Intake and fuel rail are surely gonna go if I even want to think about reaching there.
PITA is an understatement. There is an access plate in the firewall. Might help. But, if I were, I'd support the engine, take the engine mount(s) out - they probably will be due for replacement anyways - drop the engine an inch or two and replace the sensor from underneath.
 

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Mercedes benz w140 s600 -91, w124 200D, 230E * 3
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Okay, I'll look and see if we can get the car lifted on the spot and try to change the sensor underneath. But we might still take out the intake just to check the breather tubes. If the previous owner cut corners on the MAF wires, who knows what else has "temporary" fixes in there.
One minor thing that i wonder while I build my shopping list for parts. Is there any difference in the length of the right and left sensors?
I can only find the right side sensor that show the cable length to be 1250mm.
 

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Mercedes benz w140 s600 -91, w124 200D, 230E * 3
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So while I have to wait for the parts to arrive I desides to give an update.
We desided to try the upper method since the car is sitting on a soft ground, and we can't move the car easily to a spot that can support floorjack and stands. I'm not in a mood to try my luck on that soft ground.
We have removed the intake and all other stuff that was in the way (fuel rail, throttle bodies etc).
I checked the throttle bodies and determined that the wires have been replaced and/or whole throttle bodies have been replaced. There was no sign of wires crumbling to dust or anything problematic. Other than the annoying oxidation on the exterior, but that was easy to brush off.
Injectors seemed to be okay, atleast the multimeter showed no shorts. I don't have a test bench to check the fuel flow.
While i removed the intake i noticed that the egr pipe on the driver side was more dirtier than the passenger side. Any reason/idea why is that?
And the breather pipe was replaced by the previous owners.
I also found a forum post of this very car where he had rebuild the engine since oil and water was mixed and gearbox was destroyed. (Finnish forum).
Block and cylinder heads have been machined and replacement gearbox was put in place.
Also the previous owned had the same problem with the fuel tank. It was sucked flat and he replaced it. We also had replaced the tank for the same reason, so that problem still exist. Any ideas where to look for that problem?
 

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Mercedes benz w140 s600 -91, w124 200D, 230E * 3
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well this turned to a bit of a bummer and a nice lesson to me (check the easiest things first before sticking to the first problem)
So we managed to change the sensor, but the engine didn't run properly.
We got a compression tester and this was the result(sorry for my crude handwriting):

2636808

If the picture is not showing then:
Cylinders in order
Cyl 1: 4.5 bar
Cyl 2: 2 bar
Cyl 3: 2 bar
Cyl 4: 8.5 bar
Cyl 5: 11.5 bar
Cyl 6: 11.5 bar
Cyl 7: 10 bar
Cyl 8: 10.5 bar
Cyl 9: 11 bar
Cyl 10: 10.5 bar
Cyl 11: 12 bar
Cyl 12: 12 bar

So the right side bank has lost compression from 4 cylinders.

I might be able to search for an endoscope, but after those results I don't have huge hopes to this project.

So yeah, are we looking for our next coffee table or is it still worth digging deeper to this rabbit hole?
I mean 4 pistons right next to each other might suggest a gasket leak or something, but it could also be something much more expensive.

Either way, our original problem was solved, but we also seem to have some bigger issues to deal with.
 

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2007 E220CDI, 1990 300E-24V, 1987 W124 3.6 AMG build 1993 E500 W124, 94 320CE, 1997 W140 S280
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Do a leak down test on the suspect cylinders next. THAT will tell you what's going on with certainty. (If it's top or bottom end)
 

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Mercedes benz w140 s600 -91, w124 200D, 230E * 3
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well this project escalated a bit.
Last week my father went for a nice roadtrip across Finland and came back with this little thing:
2640929

A -94 engine with 180k km. With most of the wiring, gearbox and computers. Originally from 600 SEL.
When in trouble, make it double.

Some difference that i saw with a quick look-around was that the throttle bodies have a different plug (smaller push and clip, ours have the big rotating plug) and that someone has tried to fix the wiring issues with these.
2640930

2640931

Now I'm not a great solderer myself, but even I'm doubting who thought that this is okay to put back together. Also those couple mystery wires hiding there aren't helping.

And the classic MAF wires are also turned to dust in that harness.

But what the plan from here on according to my father is that we check the couple cylinders with compressed air and figure out whether it is the valves, or the head gasket, or both. After that we take the engine out and put the new one in (after thorough inspection of course). It has been taken out while running okay and had no problems with the cylinders. But I take that info with a grain of salt and double check everything that we can before stuffing that into the engine bay and firing it up.

And in the worst case scenario, at least we now have a matching set of coffee tables.
 
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