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2008 C350 SPORT 4MATIC
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Discussion Starter #1
YouTube - Dyno test
Does anyone know where this mod could be obtained or done? oO, never really heard of it until i stumbled across that video. Any info would be great. Thanks!
 

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99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB
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The_Cap'n said:
There are a few twin turbo kits left at Hughes for £1000.

Turbo Technics E320 parts list, installation, reviews - ShopForum
I'm almost finished installing one of the Turbotechnic kits from Hughes on a M103.
Great price and awesome kit.

Only problem is with the supplied piggy back fuel enrichment system....very antiquated, runs too lean, requires timing retard and can't be adjusted.

In the process of trashing all the supplied electronics and using a very inexpensive yet simple fuel enrichment system from Split Second to control the additional injectors.

The Split Second unit is mappable throughout the full RPM range using a laptop to set the air/fuel ratio.
Only connections are manifold vacuum to the built in map sensor, 12V power and a speed signal from the tach.

Hope to install it this week and dyno tune the vehicle.
 

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bchizzle said:
nvm found it its the Mosselman BiTurbo Install. Makes specs go from 220HP on an E320 to 305HP MOSSELMAN TURBO SYSTEMS :) :p
Mosselman no longer makes or supports kits for the M103 and M104.
Only kit available is the early nineties Turbotechnics from MB dealer Hughes in the U.K.
When they are gone, there ain't no more !!!!
 

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I believe that's chindiesel's car which was a one-off installation with one big turbo done in Fla. It had full stand alone engine management & a full front mount intercooler. You can search for his posts on this forum.
 

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E320 Twin Turbo Coupe
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RBYCC said:
I'm almost finished installing one of the Turbotechnic kits from Hughes on a M103.
Don't forget to post a full write up with lots of pictures:bowdown:
I have an M104 kit and will be starting the work in a couple of weeks. I'm still stuck on how to lower the compression. New con rods are not a viable option.
I wonder if the M104 electronics are as bad?
 

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The_Cap'n said:
Don't forget to post a full write up with lots of pictures:bowdown:
I have an M104 kit and will be starting the work in a couple of weeks. I'm still stuck on how to lower the compression. New con rods are not a viable option.
I wonder if the M104 electronics are as bad?

Believe the supplied M104 piggyback electronics are similar to the M103.
The M103 kit includes two Hobbs switches (timing retard, O2 sensor cutout) a MAP sensor and a DCU that fires the two supplemental injectors mounted above the throttle body.

The problem that we found upon startup was that under minor boost of about .2 bar, the A/F ratio was lean (17:1) and varying.
Possible this is by design and is compensated by the timing retard?
Didn't want to chance running on the dyno at full boost and RPM.

Smoke tested the system and found no air leaks, so it was apparent that this was all the supplied electronics were capable of !!!

Spoke to Turbotechnics who referred us to a shop in the UK that services the old installs.
We were told that the original system was antiquated, down on performance due to the timing retard and inability to run at a 13:1 or lower A/F ratio under boost.
This shop had been replacing the supplied electronics with a ERL Aquamist MF2 supplemental injector controller.
Unit had the ability to adjust A/F ratio in 1000RPM steps via potentiometers.
Also the timing retard was no longer needed due to a power A/F ratio.

Contacted an ERL dealer in the USA, who had the unit in stock, but suggested that if I wanted maximum performance to use a Split Second AIC1-A2L

Split Second

This unit is very simplistic.
Will save many hours labor required to install the Turbotechnics electronics.
Requires only a manifold vacuum connection to a built in MAP sensor, 12V power and a speed signal fropm the coil/tach.
It is programmed via a laptop and gives a fully adjustable range.
Should be able to get maximum power and durabilty with this unit.

Should hopefully be installed this week and on the dyno.
Engine base lined at 144 RWHP ( about a 20% drive train loss against the published 177HP)
Looking for 100HP for around 240-250RWHP which would give about 300HP at the flywheel.
If I get this, I have V-8 Power !

Will post a follow up.
 

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Thanks for the info. Do you remember the name of the shop in the UK?
As you can see I'm UK based and if they have experience with the Turbo Technics kit then they are my first port of call.
 

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E500Es
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RBYCC said:
Believe the supplied M104 piggyback electronics are similar to the M103.
The M103 kit includes two Hobbs switches (timing retard, O2 sensor cutout) a MAP sensor and a DCU that fires the two supplemental injectors mounted above the throttle body.

The problem that we found upon startup was that under minor boost of about .2 bar, the A/F ratio was lean (17:1) and varying.
Possible this is by design and is compensated by the timing retard?
Didn't want to chance running on the dyno at full boost and RPM.

Smoke tested the system and found no air leaks, so it was apparent that this was all the supplied electronics were capable of !!!

Spoke to Turbotechnics who referred us to a shop in the UK that services the old installs.
We were told that the original system was antiquated, down on performance due to the timing retard and inability to run at a 13:1 or lower A/F ratio under boost.
This shop had been replacing the supplied electronics with a ERL Aquamist MF2 supplemental injector controller.
Unit had the ability to adjust A/F ratio in 1000RPM steps via potentiometers.
Also the timing retard was no longer needed due to a power A/F ratio.

Contacted an ERL dealer in the USA, who had the unit in stock, but suggested that if I wanted maximum performance to use a Split Second AIC1-A2L

Split Second

This unit is very simplistic.
Will save many hours labor required to install the Turbotechnics electronics.
Requires only a manifold vacuum connection to a built in MAP sensor, 12V power and a speed signal fropm the coil/tach.
It is programmed via a laptop and gives a fully adjustable range.
Should be able to get maximum power and durabilty with this unit.

Should hopefully be installed this week and on the dyno.
Engine base lined at 144 RWHP ( about a 20% drive train loss against the published 177HP)
Looking for 100HP for around 240-250RWHP which would give about 300HP at the flywheel.
If I get this, I have V-8 Power !

Will post a follow up.
Wow, I knew there had been a difference in design philosophy between the Mosselman and TT systems but I did not realize it went that far.

How much extra $$$ has the TurboTechnics system cost to go with the mods and what has been the “engineering’ time to work through the problems to date?
 

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The_Cap'n said:
Thanks for the info. Do you remember the name of the shop in the UK?
As you can see I'm UK based and if they have experience with the Turbo Technics kit then they are my first port of call.
Adrian, Ive tried these guys already, they have no info on the mercedes kits either. Apparently they have info on all the turbo technics kits but these.

Contact us
 

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mcbear said:
Wow, I knew there had been a difference in design philosophy between the Mosselman and TT systems but I did not realize it went that far.

How much extra $$$ has the TurboTechnics system cost to go with the mods and what has been the “engineering’ time to work through the problems to date?
First problem was fitting the turbo oil feed line adapter.

The adapter is designed to thread into the filter housing in place of the oil pressure sender. The sender then threads into the adapter, which then splits to two lines, one for each turbo.

The filter housing has a female M12 thread and the supplied adapter has a M14 male thread. The sender has a M12 male thread and the adapter port for the sender has a M14 female thread.
Bought a few tube fittings, cut off the threads and TIG welded to the adapter so all would mate.

Next was a machined part that was difficult to identify, which is a deflector that mounts in the air cone above the two supplemental injectors to prevent turbulence of the fuel spray into the throttle body.

Mosselman didn't use supplemental injectors, just enriched through an adjustable signal sent to the EHA under boost.

Overall the Turbo Technics is a more sophisticated system then the Mossselman, but typical U.K. design had what appeared to use redundant "illogic".
If you can't get a rich enough A/F ratio with your non adjustable system, then just retard the timing !!!!

At this point the Split Second unit was $310.00, the fittings and labor for the oil feed lines about another $200.00.
Time to install the supplied pressure switches, MAP sensor, DCU, etc was about another $300.00
Intercooler took added time to fit as it installs on the passenger side lower frame rail parallel to the engine and is covered by a fiberglass shroud that acts as an insulator and air trunnel.
Sway bar mounting was modified slightly, but I had Sportline bars installed, so it had to come off anyway !
Mosselman mounted the intercooler on top of the engine in the throttle body area.

I'm working closely with the installer on the "engineering mods" to bring it up to date. Probably about $1000.00 in parts,labor wasted to install something that isn't designed for max power, rethink it, install the solution, and remove the supplied system.

Mosselman kits no longer available, but the last cost was $7000.00 +.
Consider the delivered cost from the UK to my door was about $2600.00, add the $2000.00 round trip transportation costs to get the car to Chicago and I still have room to spare and to correct any problems.
 

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The_Cap'n said:
Thanks for the info. Do you remember the name of the shop in the UK?
As you can see I'm UK based and if they have experience with the Turbo Technics kit then they are my first port of call.
My installer called TurboTechnics who put him onto the shop in the U.K.
I'll try to get the name, but you may want to call TurboTechnics.
 

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RBYCC said:
First problem was fitting the turbo oil feed line adapter.

The adapter is designed to thread into the filter housing in place of the oil pressure sender. The sender then threads into the adapter, which then splits to two lines, one for each turbo.

The filter housing has a female M12 thread and the supplied adapter has a M14 male thread. The sender has a M12 male thread and the adapter port for the sender has a M14 female thread.
Bought a few tube fittings, cut off the threads and TIG welded to the adapter so all would mate.

Next was a machined part that was difficult to identify, which is a deflector that mounts in the air cone above the two supplemental injectors to prevent turbulence of the fuel spray into the throttle body.

Mosselman didn't use supplemental injectors, just enriched through an adjustable signal sent to the EHA under boost.

Overall the Turbo Technics is a more sophisticated system then the Mossselman, but typical U.K. design had what appeared to use redundant "illogic".
If you can't get a rich enough A/F ratio with your non adjustable system, then just retard the timing !!!!

At this point the Split Second unit was $310.00, the fittings and labor for the oil feed lines about another $200.00.
Time to install the supplied pressure switches, MAP sensor, DCU, etc was about another $300.00
Intercooler took added time to fit as it installs on the passenger side lower frame rail parallel to the engine and is covered by a fiberglass shroud that acts as an insulator and air trunnel.
Sway bar mounting was modified slightly, but I had Sportline bars installed, so it had to come off anyway !
Mosselman mounted the intercooler on top of the engine in the throttle body area.

I'm working closely with the installer on the "engineering mods" to bring it up to date. Probably about $1000.00 in parts,labor wasted to install something that isn't designed for max power, rethink it, install the solution, and remove the supplied system.

Mosselman kits no longer available, but the last cost was $7000.00 +.
Consider the delivered cost from the UK to my door was about $2600.00, add the $2000.00 round trip transportation costs to get the car to Chicago and I still have room to spare and to correct any problems.
Thanks for the writeup. My Mosselman system, when I first got it had an incorrect Fuel unit on it. Once that got sorted, everything fell in place very nice. It is a bit strange seeing the intercooler parked on top of the motor but it works and the heat does stay down. I have toyed with the idea of moving to a different intercooler but would have to build another box for the the TB.

Keep us up to date on when it is finished. Good luck
 

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mcbear said:
Thanks for the writeup. My Mosselman system, when I first got it had an incorrect Fuel unit on it. Once that got sorted, everything fell in place very nice. It is a bit strange seeing the intercooler parked on top of the motor but it works and the heat does stay down. I have toyed with the idea of moving to a different intercooler but would have to build another box for the the TB.

Keep us up to date on when it is finished. Good luck
Sharing info is what a forum should be about.
Hopefully it will save someone else some time and money with a TurboTechnics install !!!

My car is in Chicago @ Willow Automotive.
The owner, Brian Murphy is doing the install.
Picked Brian because he has extensive history with Mosselman installs ( and he has a Mustang Dyno in his shop !!!)
Brian was written up in AutoWeek in the early nineties for one of the first Mosselman installs on a M103.
It was his wife's car, and oddly enough it was identical to my coupe !!!
Along with the Mosselman he changed the rear gear to a wagon gear.
Claimed 0-60 around 5 secs.

As I stated, I'd be ecstatic getting a 0-60 time around 6 secs and adding 100HP at the rear wheels.

Hopefully he'll be back on my car this week and complete the install.

Also did H&R springs, Bilstein HD's and Sportline swaybars.
Replaced motor mounts to preclude any problem caused by the added torque.

Ed A.

P.S.

Brian likes the chassis rail location of the intercooler as it is in a moving airstream, versus against the hood on top of the throttle body.
The turbos sit a bit higher then the Mosselman setup.
I'll run it for a while prior to paint and if heat is a problem I'll install a vent/louver assembly above the turbos.
Picked up a VW Vanagon louver assembly for $12.00 that could be perfect !
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Just asked about how much it would cost to get a Mosselman apparently they still do like special orders and it came to like $11000CDN or something. wow. So upon reading through stuff I suppose that the TurboTechnics needs tweaking and other parts such as the 'split second' to make it work all sound and the shortening of some rod. Hmm I'm torn between the two options. I think the TT would be a hell of a job if i had to do the install myself. i've a e320 95' btw. =p 220 is lacking a bit of ompfh :p:rolleyes:
 

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Mosselman systems come up on Ebay every little bit. Usually available for around $2000 or a bit more. If all the parts are there then you are in good shape.

The hardest part to deal with on these systems is the exhaust manifolds which both TT and Mosselman have cast systems with turbo mounts available. After that, they are pretty simple.
 

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My mechanic is currently having trouble with the oil feeds. My kit did not come with graphical installation instructions which is slowing things down. I'm going to head down on Saturday and find out what exactly the issue is. It may be the exact same issue mentioned above.
 

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Ortolan said:
My mechanic is currently having trouble with the oil feeds. My kit did not come with graphical installation instructions which is slowing things down. I'm going to head down on Saturday and find out what exactly the issue is. It may be the exact same issue mentioned above.
B.J.

If he is finding that the threads are not compatible between the oil feed assembly and the oil pressure sender outlet, then send me an email, and I'll tell you exactly how we resolved.

Also you may want to consider not using the supplied electronics, I'll know hopefully within a week if the Split second unit works.

My install was "pushed to the side" for a bit so the shop could catch up on work backing up due to the length of time my car has been there !

Install is complete, car is running, making power, but too lean under slight boost.
Can't dyno until the A/F ratio is closer to 12.5/13 : 1 under boost.

Ed A.
 

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Important Update !!!!

Just got a call from my installer.

He installed the Split Second additional injector controller and the result, without even doing a complete 3D computer map was incredible.

Under boost without tweaking getting .8 A/F ratio or about 12:1.

Best the supplied TurboTechnics piggy back DCU could achieve under minor boost was 17:1 along with retarding the timing.

Should have it programmed and dyno'd shortly !!!!
 
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