Well, the bay is large enough to take a Mercedes V8, so something non-Benz would probably fit as well. What did you have in mind?

In my younger years (and I'm talking DECADES here), my dad and I put a Mustang 289 into a 108. There were issues with the steering linkage, but Dad overcame it with his own custom rig. He chose the Ford engine because the oil pump was located in such a way that the front cross member didn't present an issue (Chevy engines of his choice had oil pumps in the wrong way).

If you do this, take a lot of pictures and document your pgoress. Folks like me might copy you!

 

Thanks for the response!

I actually have been given a super cherry 70 280SE by a relative, sitting since 1988, only like 60k miles. The engine seems to be seized for whatever reason, but I am thinking in the long run that servicing this motor will be a pain to chase down the not so common parts. Plus it doesn't have a whole lot of power. I'm sure there are more problems too just from dry rot right now, even though everything looks perfect since it was stored in a garage.

I have a shop and do a lot of Lexus work, so I have a few of the Lexus 4.0 V8 motor/transmissions lying around. That should match with that chassis pretty well as far as smooth driving and so forth, but the only problem is this v8 is on the wide side since it's a dohc. It's actually wider than like a SBC or SBF, and has caused issues in the past with steering and frames on some past transplants I have done.

Luckily even though I'm in CA, all pre '76 cars have no smog checks, so I can do what I need to with the manifolds or what not, but I'm just wondering since I took a quick peek and it looked like a bunch of steering crap things down below (obviously I didn't take a good detailed look!)

The mounts are not an issue, I have a full fabrication shop here, but I just don't really want this to become some huge difficult project.

My other option is to part the car out or fix it as-is, but again, it was free, and I don't want to spend too much time or money on it if I dont' have to. I just thought it would be a cool toy to putt around in once in a while - especially since it's mint inside and out.

The Lexus motors have two different pan setups, a front sump and a dual sump, I have motors with both, so I'm sure there shouldn't be too much issue with the crossmember (I'm hoping!)

So do you recall exactly what issues there were with the 289? I just would like to hear any and all input, just to help me think about this further before I jump into it. It was dark when I peeked, but was this a steering box car? I think it was I saw a bunch of "stuff" but again, I didn't even bother to look closely.

The car should arrive tomorrow or Wed on the tow truck and I can better assess it, but I just want a headstart.

Thanks again!

(More likely than not, I'll have a complete motor/transmission with accessories for sale soon!)

 

I ran across these a few months ago. Though it's doable it looks like a huge job. Some guys have converted to rack & pinion steering to solve the steering issue. I would prefer a Chevy but since Ford has the oil pump up front, the Ford may be an easier swap.

(w108) Non-stock Mercedes wheels and tires, oh and motor too! lol - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

diesel to V8 conversion [Archive] - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

OZBENZ - Australian & New Zealand Mercedes-Benz Forums • View topic - W108 Chev V8

 

Gosh! Too bad the SBC pictures don't work I'd love to have seen that one!

I guess I can post some pictures of the car just for fun here once I get it

 

The 6.3 fits nicely in a W112 coupe but there isn't room for the air conditioning.

 

That's the engine MB should have shoehorned into the 111/2 production coupes, but unfortunately never did.

 

I was just thinking about another possibility for an engine. How about the Rover/Buick aluminum V-8. That engine is compact, lightweight, and has a front sump.

 

If you're after weight savings, why not considering a euro 5.0L M117 engine? That's an alloy MB V8, and with the right combination of parts, it's a straight fit.

 

I had an old book from the 70s I sold it on ebay. But they swapped a 350 chevy in a w108. IIRC the conversion required a oil pan and oil pump form a 1960 era chevy that had the front oil stump like a ford. He also replaced the front springs used a 350 turbomatic tranny and modified the driveshaft. It can be done. I would just go with a 5.0L ford mustang engine because there are so many aftermarket parts for it. That 6.3 is wicked would that fit in a 123 coupe?

 

I would LOVE to have a 6.3 in a 111 or 112! Anyone have one for sale??

 

I am doing a 450V8 swap into my finny, which has basically the same front end as the 108 (though a smaller trans tunnel). I tried with a 302 Ford, but being a RHD car, I had issues with the starter motor fighting for space with the steering box. The sump was also no good unless you want to sit the engine up high in the engine bay (no good for handling).
Some pics - 302 windsor in my finnie. Note how high it has to sit to clear things.
Next is a 302 windsor in a mates finnie. Sounds awesome!
Then lastly is the 450 in my finnie (still in progress).

View attachment 280242
View attachment 280243
View attachment 280244

Castlemaine Rod Shop in Victoria Australia do make kits for putting the windsors into 108's - google them.
However, if you are after something quick, I would track down an alloy 500 or 560 Mercedes motor and put that in. Apart from a bit of opening up of the trans tunnel if you have an early car, the motor and trans just bolts in. Swap in the rear end from a 4.5 V8 car to get the lower diff ratio.
That ozbenz chev one was a bit of a disappointment. The guy was talking of a rack and pinion conversion, but when I looked at his pics, I reckon he was in for a lot of bump steer. When I quizzed him about this, he said he woud drive the car and see if it worked. The guy was already in a wheel chair, so maybe he felt he had not much to lose?? Anway, have a look at his website ( cripple dot hioctandesigns dot com dot au) and make of it what you will.
He also talked of a mate with a lexus in his car but never saw any evidence of it. The engine looked too wide to me. There was also a yahoo group called something like the MB 302-351 engine swappers group but I can't seem to find it anymore.
Lastly, a guy once put a rotary into a finnie and did a rack and pinion conversion. All I remember was that he stuffed around for ages and ended up using a rack out of a VW rabbit (whatever that is, not here in Australia) but got it to work. Again, can't find it on the net but he had the name chickentech. I am too impatient to find them all again!
So, I still think if you want a quick swap go for a benz engine, preferably a 560/500.
Cheers,
Drew in Oz

 

The guy was talking of a rack and pinion conversion, but when I looked at his pics, I reckon he was in for a lot of bump steer. When I quizzed him about this, he said he woud drive the car and see if it worked. The guy was already in a wheel chair, so maybe he felt he had not much to lose??

LLLOOOOOOLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lastly, a guy once put a rotary into a finnie and did a rack and pinion conversion. All I remember was that he stuffed around for ages and ended up using a rack out of a VW rabbit (whatever that is, not here in Australia) but got it to work. Again, can't find it on the net but he had the name chickentech.

A Rabbit is the VW A1 golf/gti chassis. I don't think any had power steering though??? Still a good lead for possibly correct rack width though!

 

Best Fit

I think the best fit is a M117 Aloy-engine with automatic tranny. The oilfilter has to change place ( only the first 5.0 is a straight fit), but ist is easy to do. The Radiator needs a better net and you have to change the fuel pump ,too. Ignition, originale EZl and KE-Jetronik.


Best pagodino

 

At the risk of having missed some crucial piece of information in this thread, you do know the W108 came with a 3.5/4.5 V-8, don't you? All the parts you need for that swap are off the shelf. The 6.3 also fits that engine bay (or the bay in the W109, more precisely). The 4.5 isn't the highest specific output motor you could find, but it's a sure fit. No worries with relocating oil filters, or having starters in the wrong place, or relocating steering boxes.

Good luck.

 

Thanks all for the responses so far! I have the car here, it may be just a seized starter, I won't have time to mess with it until maybe the weekend. If it starts up and runs well, that will definitely buy almost unlimited time to figure out what to do with it

If the motor is bad, I'll have plenty of great condition engine-related parts for sale soon

It's super clean, the interior is pretty much perfect, outside has one very slight dent in the rear quarter, but that's it. No door dings or anything, all original. The chrome has pitted for whatever reason, so if I get it running I'll prob just get those replated and the car should look literally as good as new.

Drew you're right about the lexus V8 being wide, which is why I asked. I do have 3 of them just laying around taking up space, which is why I wanted to use it thought. I still may sooner or later, since I can fix them for close to nothing too. I'm just mostly worried about reliability, decent mileage, and minimization of future maintenance.

Rack and pinion could be a cool upgrade too, I'd have to find a rack with the right width if anything. Sounds like more headaches than I want to deal with right now lol I already have a customer's car here I'm doing a rack conversion which is being a feisty handful (64 ford galaxie), so I've had enough of endlessly jigging and measuring bump steer for the time being.

 

Well UCF, it sounds like you know a bit about cars, so good luck!
I would love to see someone tackle a R&P conversion for this model. I know of 3 of us who would love to do this to open up more engine conversion possibilities. So if you do end up going this route and make some templates, you may be able to recoup some $ for your time

At least with these cars you can sit the whole front end on a bench to work on!

I drove a mates 1960's 5 tonne Bedford truck the other day. It looked like a POS, but it had had a lexus V8 conversion - man that thing went! Sounded amazing, but just so reliable as well. Pity you are so far away as if we could solve the R&P issue, you would end up with 2 less lexus motors cluttering up your shop!

 

Ok, so I got into this thing more, and #5 got some moisture in it for who knows what reason, but it's pretty much toast. This motor is seized, prob the rings are glued to the walls, I almost have the head off just need to get the timing chains off the cam gear. I suspect I'm not going to like what I see, nothing that I can even rig up with a hone and some new rings just to get it running, so I have a 90% feeling that I will have all of the engine and drivetrain parts for sale very soon

Everything on the motor seems to be in tip top condition otherwise, some of the hoses are hard but other than that, all the parts are nice. If anyone wants anything offhand that they can think of now, let me know. I'll probably be posting a separate parts thread in the for sale section in the next week or two...blah!

As far as the rack and pinion, I took a look and it doesn't look too bad. Honestly, how much would people be willing to spend for a conversion though? It would have to be around $1000us or probably more to be worth trying to sell. I've never really seen this kinda stuff pan out, people seem to scatter like roaches when it's time to talk real money being forked over LOL

 

Ok, this motor is toast, I'm selling off what I can, and it's coming out later today if I have time. Driveline from the transmission forward is for sale if anyone needs, including cooling and accessories...

Oddly, since Toyota/Lexus did so much copy-engineering of Mercedes when they designed their V8, that a LOT of the mounting looks suspiciously similar. I have an inkling that things won't be so far off to be a huge amount of fabrication to put in this Lexus 4.0. The mounts for the motor and trans are even the same style. It is highly possible I will only need to drill 4 holes in the crossmember just to get a first test stab at fitting.

I guess I can keep updating in this thread, since a couple of y'all seem to have some interest in it.

***************

So first off I'm going to measure exactly the location of the front of the crank center and the rear output shaft of the trans (3 dimensionally), so that I don't have issues with pinion angle and location. Especially being an IRS setup, this is absolutely critical. Before the motor comes out I'll have to assess the condition of the mounts as well, to see if I might have to adjust these measurements accordingly. I have a feeling the numbers will be ok as-measured.

I've also looked more closely at the steering/rack issue, and I'm just going to put in this motor first, and then see what the deal is. A rack conversion looks very doable in a kit form, but if I don't need to do it now, I don't want to waste the time. I don't really have a lot of time to spend on this car right now, and I'd just like to get it running for the time being. (Well unless there's any legitimate interest from at least 2-3 people I'm not going to bother until later)

Heater, a/c, p/s lines all look like no big deal.

I'll need to have a radiator made, or if I'm lucky a universal one in the right size is available. Definitely aluminum. Decent amount of room for hose routing so I guess I may have more choices with the inlet/outlet locations which should help.

Electrical seems to be pretty straightforward, shouldn't be much issue.

Shifter already has the proper number of stops and positions, so that is great!

Only issue will need to be an electronic to mechanical speedo converter, but that is minor.

Also will try to adapt the in-tank Lexus fuel pump assembly into the stock tank.

The driveshaft couplers look very much alike too, that would be quite amazing if the bolt circles ended up the same diameter

So we'll see how this goes, unfortunately I don't have a lot of time to commit to this, at least not as much as I'd like.

 

UCF21,

I'm interested.

 

Couldn't help but "share"
Terrible law suit. Settled, but cost me dearly.

Me? Retired interior designer focused on manufacturing high end custom made furniture.

Upon receipt of his custom made furniture of solid woods & precious matching veneers.....
The lawyer discovering fine veneers (the most exquisite & valuable parts of the tree) were used over they're correct substrate claimed "This is like buying a Mercedes with a ford engine under it's hood"
The fool got his money back.

Nonetheless, a Mercedes thats not all Mercedes?

Still, bravo for your skills and ingenuity.
Best of luck with your project!

Respectfully,
David

 

You mean like this?

1970 MERCEDES-BENZ 280 SL500 CONVERTIBLE For Sale :: AutaBuy

LOL

 

 

Nice! I'd buy something like that!

 

Oh I bet that thing runs hard as hell. Only thing is it probably doesn't sound characteristic to what it looks like though haha

 

Nice little distraction there with the pagoda. Some serious work gone on there to graft in both front and rear ends.

Anyway, back to the topic of trying to fit a lexus V8 in. A mate found some info on a kiwi project back in 2005 - unfortunately the trail seems to have gone cold. But there are some pics of the motor in there, but none showing the steering set-up however.

oldschool.co.nz • View topic - no bumps 64 merc progress

Send me some info on what a kit may comprise - I wonder if it is a waste of time from my end though given that I am RHD and you LHD... But if the key rack and arm dimensions were figured out surely a steering shop would have a big list of racks and their key dimensions? And if it mounted off the suspension arm pivot bolts, wouldn't it all be a mirror image?

Cheers,
Drew in oz

 

Damn those are some crazy headers he made!! Extractors as you call them

He did mention he did those so he didn't have to deal with the steering, which means most likely he left a box in there.

I really like the height he has the car at too, I'm such a lowering whore.

I have a JDM RHD Soarer here, pretty rare out in California to have anything RHD.

Maybe tomorrow I'll measure the frame rail inside width, that will be a big clue as to how much problem I may have. Been so busy this past week, I need to wash that damn car and take some pictures too.

As far as a RHD/LHD conversion for steering, it could be just reversible. I definitely want to use as many of the existing holes from the original idler arm and box if possible though, but again I think it may simply be a mirror image layout. I'll measure the tie rod widths tomorrow, they looked pretty wide I might be able to use a Lexus rack, which would be nice since I have one also just laying around. Those are on the wide side compared to most cars.

There's a huge TRW data book that I have been trying to find for quite some time now, it has all of the data for the various widths and dimensions supposedly. Maybe you can look and find something out your way. It's called #X4000 or X-4000 or something like that. TRW/Federal Mogul

 

Lexus?

Why you want to use a Lexus engine? for my opinion there is no advantage to a M117 like 500 ore 560. If you want eletronic EFI use MSII, and there i no problem with motorblock-eletronic.

If not you can use a M113 too, like Mechatronik in germany do.

pagodino see mosds thread

 

Why you want to use a Lexus engine? for my opinion there is no advantage to a M117 like 500 ore 560. If you want eletronic EFI use MSII, and there i no problem with motorblock-eletronic.

If not you can use a M113 too, like Mechatronik in germany do.

pagodino see mosds thread

Like I said before, I have them laying around doing a whole lot of nothing, and I want something dead reliable and smooth with decent power. And I can't justify spending much on this project. Some time is ok, but money no. I actually have a more serious engine transplant pending on a different vehicle that I will end up spending too much money on, so I don't want to be recklessly wasting money on a project car that doesn't really have much purpose for me. I could just as soon part this car out, but it would be a shame and a waste since the rest of the car is so clean. Plus my uncle that gave it to me might kill me.

This benz is way broken, the motor is toast, it'll cost money to rebuild it as is, and constantly more money to keep it that way. That doesn't really work for me.

Maybe you don't have rodders' blood or see any reason for doing something unorthodox (but not completely idiotic), but there are plenty that do and can appreciate it. Overcoming barriers with ingenuity and engineering has returns of satisfaction that money cannot buy.

Who knows I may paint myself into a corner and have to give up if it ends up being overly too much work, but at least I tried, and I'll learn more stuff along the way.

 

LOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLl!!

Now that would be something unappreciated by anybody from either side haha

I prefer drag cars myself if anything

 

Problem solved a 502 big block, 300 of spray, some drag tires and you;ll in the 10's lol

 

V8 in a 108 Mercedes

Many years ago, I put a mildly built 351 Ford Windsor into a 66 250SE. It took time but it wasn't terribly difficult. The biggest challenge is the exhaust system. There is very little room on both sides of the motor, if i remember correctly, the passenger side is the worst. The tight areas are around the steering components. I used cast iron manifolds (budget constraints, I was 23). This swap wouldn't be so bad if you can fabricate headers.

I used a small block C6 and it required the transmission tunnel to be stretched in strategic locations. The transmission mount is an easy fab using piece of channel iron. The stock Mercedes floor shifter can be reworked to shift the ford transmission.

And before anybody rants about a Ford in a Mercedes, here are the reasons I did it. Motor build cost, its different, its fun, cheaper and simpler to fix, nobody else has one, did I mention that is was fun?

Pictures are here: http://sites.google.com/site/galenpowers/galenpowers

 

That's pretty awesome! And yeah the basis for that motor is just the cost and maintenance issues. Especially so if the car is worth nothing broken, and not worth a whole lot even if it was perfect. Just all in good fun.

I wonder if a C4 would have been a better fit? I'm not sure the difference between the C6 and C4 physically. The domestic bellhousings are usually pretty big though, compared to most of the import ones, at least comparing V8 to V8.

Do you think a 302 would have been easier or maybe even harder due to exhaust manifold positioning? Luckily this Lexus motor has pseudo shorty header type manifolds, so in a quick fix I can chop off the collector and reposition it. I'm sure it won't hurt the given power output much if any.

I think your choice of stock manifolds was still quite ok, since you were not going for all out power anyways. Less problems and more quiet too

 

Mercedes v8 swap

A C4 would have been easier, the bell housing was no problem. The issue was a couple of bumps on the body of the transmission. It was a 15 minute job with a small sledge hammer to stretch a couple of spots. It wasnt as bad as it sounds.

The exhaust issue was mainly trying to clear the idler arm as I remember. This was also caused by trying to keep the motor back against the firewall to help the front to rear weight balance.

The drive shaft was spliced (Ford to Mercedes) Stock Mercedes rear end worked fine.

I would like to do another one of these someday.