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CH4S Artist , Outstanding Contributor
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SoCal has had a long history of water issues (or perhaps was populated / build up in spite of).
When it does rain, most of the water is not being collected and just runs off into the ocean.
 

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Immoderately Caffeinated/ Vintage Moderator
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Apparently California has bigger problems than many people know about, or want to know about. Surface water supplies are regulated but aquafers not so much. If you can afford to drill deeper than anyone else you can have as much water as you like hence large olive groves leeching water supplies away from whole communities.

The California town with no water: even an 'angel' can't stop the wells going dry

East Porterville is the epicenter of suffering in drought-stricken California: with private wells dried up, people are leeching water from neighbors’ hoses, reporting those who water their lawns, and relying on bottled water for basic living. ‘There’s so many straws in the glass that sooner or later it’s going empty’
The California town with no water: even an 'angel' can't stop the wells going dry | US news | The Guardian
 

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Immoderately Caffeinated/ Vintage Moderator
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If this isn't a wake-up call about man made irreversible environmental damage its almost a lost cause.

If You Think the Water Crisis Can't Get Worse, Wait Until the Aquifers Are Drained

We're pumping irreplaceable groundwater to counter the drought. When it's gone, the real crisis begins.

Aquifers provide us freshwater that makes up for surface water lost from drought-depleted lakes, rivers, and reservoirs. We are drawing down these hidden, mostly nonrenewable groundwater supplies at unsustainable rates in the western United States and in several dry regions globally, threatening our future.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/08/140819-groundwater-california-drought-aquifers-hidden-crisis/
 

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Always Remembered RIP
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I have visited a former employer who now lives in the boondocks in the Baja - where there are no utilities and no water whatsoever. He uses a massive solar installation and a large RO plant to provide power and water. Besides domestic water, the RO plant provides irrigation water - roughly 10,000 gallons per day.
This system was horrifically expensive to install and has very high upkeep costs. He affords it because he can, but it's hardly cost effective and the water is pretty bad. I boiled it before drinking it.

He is quite wealthy and enjoys his live-in experiment - he'd do it on Mars if he could - but the truth is that solar systems that are not tied to the grid are costly and inefficient. Further, it would seem that RO plants are very energy-hungry - a burden that southern California can do without.
 

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Water profiteering in SoCal.

Maybe this would be a good time for Roman Polanski to consider a re-do of Chinatown.

I was on Catalina Island a couple weeks ago. They're in what they refer to as a "Stage 4" water crisis. The main reservoir that supplies Avalon with its drinking water is bone dry and tankers have started bring fresh water out to the island.....at obscene expense.
 

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I have visited a former employer who now lives in the boondocks in the Baja - where there are no utilities and no water whatsoever. He uses a massive solar installation and a large RO plant to provide power and water. Besides domestic water, the RO plant provides irrigation water - roughly 10,000 gallons per day.
This system was horrifically expensive to install and has very high upkeep costs. He affords it because he can, but it's hardly cost effective and the water is pretty bad. I boiled it before drinking it.

He is quite wealthy and enjoys his live-in experiment - he'd do it on Mars if he could - but the truth is that solar systems that are not tied to the grid are costly and inefficient. Further, it would seem that RO plants are very energy-hungry - a burden that southern California can do without.
RO plants have been around for a while. A modern plant can make water at costs of less than two cents a gallon. May not sound "cheap" but go buy some bottled fresh water to compare.

The degree to which the plant cleans the impurities is a design input. If the goal is drinking water you obviously need more membrane surface area than if you are looking to generate water to be used in a manufacturing facility or a farm. There are also lessons that have been learned about the output brine volume relative to the purified water volume that has an effect on both the plant design and cost, maintenance, and water quality on the output side (useful water) as well as the waste side.

A plant that produces water with a foul or salty taste is either not designed to produce drinking water, or is not being operated or maintained correctly. In most arid places a solar plant to provide the electricity to drive the system is likely a good solution, as the major operating cost is electricity to run pumps.

When the shit hits the fan these systems will be commercialized like small home generators, water heaters, etc. and it won't be uncommon to have a significant portion of your waste water plumbed to go through the RO system and be recycled to launder clothes, flush toilets, wash dishes, etc.

Panic is not the answer - Earth is not about to become Arakis in the next decades. But modifying our habits to make more effective and efficient use of water and energy will help us continue to get along as the population continues to expand. Deciding we don't need to modify our behaviors will ensure we eradicate our species.

Jim
 

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Cruise Control
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I'm willing to bet that Cali becomes a world leader in water management in the next decade, as its political leadership and considerable tech talent respond to the present water crisis.
 

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Na.

You can't smoke water, snorting it doesn't do much, and you can't film it having sex.
 

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Cost: very expensive, might triple bills, takes a lot of energy so increases pollution
Plus tons of byproducts, some harmful
Much more landfill material


Taste: basically distilled water, need to add minerals, etc

imo the answer is recycling
Instead of discharging wastewater effluent to surface water take it to the water treatment plant
This is a real problem when discharged to salt water bodies
Not so much when upstream in rivers where it is used downstream by other plants

Conservation
Less showers
Less car wash
Less lawn watering
Wahing of clothes
Etc

Catch rainwater for home garden use, etc
Use household greywater for yard use, ec

It will eventually come to desalination but we aren't there yet
 

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Cost: very expensive, might triple bills, takes a lot of energy so increases pollution
Plus tons of byproducts, some harmful
Much more landfill material


Taste: basically distilled water, need to add minerals, etc

imo the answer is recycling
Instead of discharging wastewater effluent to surface water take it to the water treatment plant
This is a real problem when discharged to salt water bodies
Not so much when upstream in rivers where it is used downstream by other plants

Conservation
Less showers
Less car wash
Less lawn watering
Wahing of clothes
Etc

Catch rainwater for home garden use, etc
Use household greywater for yard use, ec

It will eventually come to desalination but we aren't there yet
Mexicali is too damn crowded.

LOL
 

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Mexicali is too damn crowded.

LOL
A few ways to do it
Reverse osmosis membrane filtration
Electrodialysis reverse
These don't work well on high tds like seawater

Distillation
Freeze/thaw concentration
Big energy and f/t is small scale

Mother nature is best
Evaporation leaves the crud behind
Rains
Voila clean water
Repeat


For example
Any of the above methods
Raw water tds 40000 mg/l (or ppm )
Need <1000 to drink
Assume population is 1000000
Each needs 40 gal per day
Filtered solids basically salts
7400 tons per day
A lump of crap 60'x60'x60'
Excluding water content

Whom ever solves this puzzle will be bill gates rich...or more
 

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A few ways to do it
Reverse osmosis membrane filtration
Electrodialysis reverse
These don't work well on high tds like seawater

Distillation
Freeze/thaw concentration
Big energy and f/t is small scale

Mother nature is best
Evaporation leaves the crud behind
Rains
Voila clean water
Repeat


For example
Any of the above methods
Raw water tds 40000 mg/l (or ppm )
Need <1000 to drink
Assume population is 1000000
Each needs 40 gal per day
Filtered solids basically salts
7400 tons per day
A lump of crap 60'x60'x60'
Excluding water content

Whom ever solves this puzzle will be bill gates rich...or more
Gun control is the problem.

LOL
 

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SoCal has had a long history of water issues (or perhaps was populated / build up in spite of).
When it does rain, most of the water is not being collected and just runs off into the ocean.
Yes, it's true. The most efficient and green solution would be to simply enlarge the area's watershed according to the 100 year drought cycle. When their current drought is over in a few months or years, all lessons will be forgotten though.
 

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Premium Member
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Gun control is the problem.

LOL
Aahh. The Guy out of Ratsville, Russia again. :grin

Not sure what gun control has to do with desalination. Making holy water by shooting the hell out of it?

I am not sure where @Ingenieur's 40 gallons a day come from. Maybe the amount needed by a single person a day at home? But they fore sure not include the water needed to grow the plants and feet the meat eaten per day.

Last year our pump in the well failed. Took two or three days to replace. Quite funny how fast a 2,500 gallon storage tank gets empty.

And I even do not have livestock nor produce.

Enjoy!

Mike
 

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A few ways to do it
Reverse osmosis membrane filtration
Electrodialysis reverse
These don't work well on high tds like seawater

Distillation
Freeze/thaw concentration
Big energy and f/t is small scale

Mother nature is best
Evaporation leaves the crud behind
Rains
Voila clean water
Repeat


For example
Any of the above methods
Raw water tds 40000 mg/l (or ppm )
Need <1000 to drink
Assume population is 1000000
Each needs 40 gal per day
Filtered solids basically salts
7400 tons per day
A lump of crap 60'x60'x60'
Excluding water content

Whom ever solves this puzzle will be bill gates rich...or more
The way a modern RO system works doesn't produce a lump of crap at the outlet. The membrane types, and surface areas are set to deliver a flow rate of X gallons per minute after some number of RO stages, from what is likely an input flow rate ten times the output or yield of the intended quality of water. The idea is to avoid generating very high concentrations of TDS that lead to precipitating crystals and other actual solids that will foul the membranes. And, if the outflow is kept within some value of the input in terms of TDS and other particulates, it is feasible to pump it back to the ocean.

Power consumption involves pumps - some of the systems operate at relatively high pressures to drive flow across several stages of membranes. High flow rates at high pressures leads to high power consumption. But nothing like boiling the fluid, and then condensing it several times.

Nothing compares to Mother Nature, though. If we insist on living in areas where Mother Nature tells us we are not well suited we are going to be fighting harder for the essentials of life.

Jim
 
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