Hi All, first time posting on here , has anyone attempted to remove the Turbo wastegate actuator on a W203 C200 cdi? It has a Garrett GT18v VNT Turbo fitted with an electronic solenoid wastegate actuator which I'm reliably informed is sticking and causing the dreaded limp mode , Just wondering can it be done from above ? And without removing the whole turbo ?
Turbo wastegate actuator
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9,046 Posts
Hi,
Welcome to the Forum.
Did mine recently, there's a post on here about it.
Don't buy a new Actuator, get the rebuild kit which consists of a new Motor and Gears, that's usually what goes wrong, costs a hell of a lot less than a new Actuator :wink
That's the good news
I found it almost impossible to even see the Actuator from above, but it wasn't too bad a job.............
I stripped off the Airbox and Heat Shield from above, then removed Under Tray and Alternator from below, then a few Brackets out of the way, and removed the entire Turbo assembly, sorted it all on the bench and refitted, good as gold now :wink
It's not as hard as you'd think, just be sure to use a decent Spanner on the Manifold to Turbo nuts, they are very tight, but they don't seem to seize on Mercedes, but do not round them off with a cheapo Spanner, if you don't get them undone it will be a pig to cut them off etc etc.
I used the ring end of a 6 Point Snap On Combination Spanner.
Good luck with it.
Garret Actuator Repair Kit is on EBay :wink
HTH,
Cheers Dave
Welcome to the Forum.
Did mine recently, there's a post on here about it.
Don't buy a new Actuator, get the rebuild kit which consists of a new Motor and Gears, that's usually what goes wrong, costs a hell of a lot less than a new Actuator :wink
That's the good news
I found it almost impossible to even see the Actuator from above, but it wasn't too bad a job.............
I stripped off the Airbox and Heat Shield from above, then removed Under Tray and Alternator from below, then a few Brackets out of the way, and removed the entire Turbo assembly, sorted it all on the bench and refitted, good as gold now :wink
It's not as hard as you'd think, just be sure to use a decent Spanner on the Manifold to Turbo nuts, they are very tight, but they don't seem to seize on Mercedes, but do not round them off with a cheapo Spanner, if you don't get them undone it will be a pig to cut them off etc etc.
I used the ring end of a 6 Point Snap On Combination Spanner.
Good luck with it.
Garret Actuator Repair Kit is on EBay :wink
HTH,
Cheers Dave
That's really useful info, I didn't realise a repair kit was available , Figured it would probably be turbo out to be fair, thanks Dave, much appreciated. I'll post back when I get it sorted .
Cheers Arthur.
Cheers Arthur.
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9,046 Posts
Hi,
The Actuator is actually made by Hella for Garret Turbos, here's the link to the one I bought, arrived quickly, good kit, no fuss no drama :wink :-
New HELLA Electronic Turbocharger Actuator Repair Kit Type 1 Motor Clip Worm
As well as the Clip holding it, the Motor has 2 tiny Screws at the opposite end to the Gear, they go through the Actuator plastic Casing and the Screw Heads are blanked so you have to dig the blanks out with a wee pick, I then put a dob of Silicone over them after I'd changed the Motor to seal it all up :wink
Regarding the Turbo Stud Nuts, they will be rusty, soak them with WD 40 or similar, then a 13mm Spanner on them and wriggle it will clean off the rust.
After this if you think the Spanner is moving too much and will round them, don't try and undo them, use a 6 point 1/2" AF which will be a tighter fit than 13mm, and if they are really bad, try and get a 12mm 6 point on them.................
I've done loads of these on various CDI Engines. In NW Scotland, the environment is very Salty, and everything rusts :laugh
I've found that this method always gets them undone.
I've only ever had one nervous moment on 1 Nut on a very old Sprinter Van, but forcing a 12mm on the nut by wiggling and Lever Bar got it undone :wink
When taking the Turbo out, leave the Oil Return Pipe attached to the Turbo, and get it clear of the Manifold Flange, then wriggle and twist upwards so the Pipe pulls out of the Seal in the Cylinder Block.
With Turbo on the Bench, undo the Pipe and change the Gasket, but leave the Bolts loose, so the Pipe moves whilst you get it located back in the Block Seal, lube the end of the Pipe, it is very easy to tear the Seal, you can then tighten the 2 Bolts when Turbo is bolted up, but you can't get the Pipe on the Turbo if you try leaving it off until last :wink
Finally, order all new Nuts and Gaskets, and an Oil Return Pipe to Cylinder Block Seal (a little Rubber "Top Hat" that is very prone to leaking) etc etc from MB themselves. The last set I bought recently from MB was around £14.00 for the lot, EBay Chinese sh!te Gaskets were similar price, and didn't have one of the ones you will need :wink
Put the new Top Hat Seal in the Block First, and then the Pipe slides into it, grease it inside and out to avoid sticking / tearing :wink
I think that's about got it covered :grin
HTH,
Cheers Dave
The Actuator is actually made by Hella for Garret Turbos, here's the link to the one I bought, arrived quickly, good kit, no fuss no drama :wink :-
New HELLA Electronic Turbocharger Actuator Repair Kit Type 1 Motor Clip Worm
As well as the Clip holding it, the Motor has 2 tiny Screws at the opposite end to the Gear, they go through the Actuator plastic Casing and the Screw Heads are blanked so you have to dig the blanks out with a wee pick, I then put a dob of Silicone over them after I'd changed the Motor to seal it all up :wink
Regarding the Turbo Stud Nuts, they will be rusty, soak them with WD 40 or similar, then a 13mm Spanner on them and wriggle it will clean off the rust.
After this if you think the Spanner is moving too much and will round them, don't try and undo them, use a 6 point 1/2" AF which will be a tighter fit than 13mm, and if they are really bad, try and get a 12mm 6 point on them.................
I've done loads of these on various CDI Engines. In NW Scotland, the environment is very Salty, and everything rusts :laugh
I've found that this method always gets them undone.
I've only ever had one nervous moment on 1 Nut on a very old Sprinter Van, but forcing a 12mm on the nut by wiggling and Lever Bar got it undone :wink
When taking the Turbo out, leave the Oil Return Pipe attached to the Turbo, and get it clear of the Manifold Flange, then wriggle and twist upwards so the Pipe pulls out of the Seal in the Cylinder Block.
With Turbo on the Bench, undo the Pipe and change the Gasket, but leave the Bolts loose, so the Pipe moves whilst you get it located back in the Block Seal, lube the end of the Pipe, it is very easy to tear the Seal, you can then tighten the 2 Bolts when Turbo is bolted up, but you can't get the Pipe on the Turbo if you try leaving it off until last :wink
Finally, order all new Nuts and Gaskets, and an Oil Return Pipe to Cylinder Block Seal (a little Rubber "Top Hat" that is very prone to leaking) etc etc from MB themselves. The last set I bought recently from MB was around £14.00 for the lot, EBay Chinese sh!te Gaskets were similar price, and didn't have one of the ones you will need :wink
Put the new Top Hat Seal in the Block First, and then the Pipe slides into it, grease it inside and out to avoid sticking / tearing :wink
I think that's about got it covered :grin
HTH,
Cheers Dave
Invaluable information, all parts are ordered, I will remove the air box/metal plate today and get the turbo bolts well soaked in wd40, luckily I can have the use of a mates ramp ( and snap on tools ,) on Wednesday of next week, should have the parts by then so that'll be the day, hopefully it'll all go well ! Gulp. Lol. Anyways , I'll keep you posted, many thanks again Dave, really appreciate your input
Cheers Arthur.
Cheers Arthur.
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9,046 Posts
Hi Arthur,
Thanks, no problem, if you get stuck, give me a shout :wink
I did mine outside my Workshop, in "Highland Showers", as my S Class is in bits on my Lift
It took about 1.5 - 2 hours, I have done a fair few CDI Turbos before, but not on W203...........
Until I bought mine cheap because no one could fix the power loss problem :laugh
In actual fact, mine turned out to be that some fool had bent the Actuator Rod where they had fitted another Actuator, but not taken all the surrounding parts off, it was also pouring Oil from the Top Hat Block Seal, and I'm guessing because they didn't take off all the Brackets and the Alternator they probably used a Lever Bar to force it in and out, thus bending the Rod and tearing the Seal.
But as I had it all off, I put all the bits I had bought on it anyway, fit and forget :wink
Still I got a lovely clean 2006 C200 CDI for buttons because of this :devil
Cheers Dave
Thanks, no problem, if you get stuck, give me a shout :wink
I did mine outside my Workshop, in "Highland Showers", as my S Class is in bits on my Lift
It took about 1.5 - 2 hours, I have done a fair few CDI Turbos before, but not on W203...........
Until I bought mine cheap because no one could fix the power loss problem :laugh
In actual fact, mine turned out to be that some fool had bent the Actuator Rod where they had fitted another Actuator, but not taken all the surrounding parts off, it was also pouring Oil from the Top Hat Block Seal, and I'm guessing because they didn't take off all the Brackets and the Alternator they probably used a Lever Bar to force it in and out, thus bending the Rod and tearing the Seal.
But as I had it all off, I put all the bits I had bought on it anyway, fit and forget :wink
Still I got a lovely clean 2006 C200 CDI for buttons because of this :devil
Cheers Dave
Gotta say I got my lovely clean 2005 C200 Cdi super cheap too , spotless inside and out, only had 124 k miles with a full Merc history ! Its weird cause so far it had a bent arm in the egr valve ( no idea how that could happen ) so new egr , problem solved , then the inlet port motor started playing up , got that sorted , then I discovered a badly split top intercooler to mix chamber hose and a split turbo inlet hose red spacer ! Sorted that the other day and now I have this actuator caper oh and I had to replace pretty much every bush and arm in the rear suspension , doesn't make any sense to be honest, I'm certain the car was off the road for some time before I got it so I'm thinking as I gradually fix various bits and pieces I'm putting more power , and therefore more pressure , onto other components , and they're failing , least that's my theory, probably totally wrong ! Lol, all of the above happened over a six month period and more often than not the car has been in limp mode so I'm sure that's probably not helping either , I'm surprised I haven't given up on it yet but I really like the car. I'll keep going with it a while yet, I also noticed the inlet manifold is heavily rammed with gunk so that may well be my next adventure assuming I can sort the actuator / limp mode issue, Before this I had an E320 cdi for 6 years and did 16 k miles a year in it and apart from the notoriously weak suspension it never gave a cough the whole time, when I eventually sold it on the body was disintegrating but the engine still pulled like a train . Amazing car and a seriously impressive engine , as a footnote, I now have a working perfectly erg valve which does various models of Merc sitting here doing nothing if you ever have a need of one , they can be tricky to find as I discovered , once again ta for the input, it's all very useful stuff.
Cheers Arthur.
Cheers Arthur.
Probably bored everybody silly with that rambling post ! Lol, sorry guys. ?
Update
Well , I eventually got the actuator off only to find there appeared to be nothing wrong , so I took it and the turbo to a turbo specialist , all tested , nothing wrong , on the advice of another expert I sourced and fitted a brand new Bosch Maf sensor, the whole unit , still no change , I have had the car to various mechanics now , one with Mercedes Star and one had it for a week , so after all that , a new intercooler pipe, a removed dpf and Cat , well Dpf was removed via star and the cat was checked , a new Egr valve , a new Maf sensor , clean oil and a new Mercedes Air Filter ( and god knows what else ! I've lost count ! ) oh and a removed inlet flap motor ! I am no further forward , with the fault cleared the car goes really well for maybe a mile then slams on limp mode and eventually throws the engine light with the Wastegate pressure/ position fault code , about ready to give up on the car at this point , just refuses to fix and I have no idea what to try or where to take it , shame really but I've tried every suggestion anyone has mentioned all to no avail so what do I do , :-( anyway, just wanted to update on what was happening , thanks for the help especially Dave2302
Well , I eventually got the actuator off only to find there appeared to be nothing wrong , so I took it and the turbo to a turbo specialist , all tested , nothing wrong , on the advice of another expert I sourced and fitted a brand new Bosch Maf sensor, the whole unit , still no change , I have had the car to various mechanics now , one with Mercedes Star and one had it for a week , so after all that , a new intercooler pipe, a removed dpf and Cat , well Dpf was removed via star and the cat was checked , a new Egr valve , a new Maf sensor , clean oil and a new Mercedes Air Filter ( and god knows what else ! I've lost count ! ) oh and a removed inlet flap motor ! I am no further forward , with the fault cleared the car goes really well for maybe a mile then slams on limp mode and eventually throws the engine light with the Wastegate pressure/ position fault code , about ready to give up on the car at this point , just refuses to fix and I have no idea what to try or where to take it , shame really but I've tried every suggestion anyone has mentioned all to no avail so what do I do , :-( anyway, just wanted to update on what was happening , thanks for the help especially Dave2302
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9,046 Posts
Hi,
There is no such thing as a Car that can't be fixed, just so called "Mechanics, Garages ans Specialists" that can't fix them
Mine had exactly the same problem, and I bought the Car with the fault, the Guy had been to various "specialists" and spent a fortune, in the end he sold the car off cheap to me !!
I bought a s/h low miles Turbo and a rebuild kit for the Actuator.
When I stripped it all off, I found that the Actuator to Turbo Rod was bent, that was actually the problem
However, I also fitted the Rebuild Kit to the Actuator, and fitted the low mileage Turbo, put it back together and car was perfect as soon as I drove it. It has since done around 5000 miles and is still perfect.
How do you know that Actuator hasn't got an Intermittent Fault??
The code you are getting suggests that the ECU is reporting that the Actuator is not in the correct place for the Boost that the ECU is seeing :wink
This "Position" is sensed from a Sensor in the Actuator.
I'd have fitted the Actuator Rebuild Kit at the very least, if not a New Actuator :wink
If you are convinced these are not faulty, then put a Boost Pressure Sensor on it :wink (MAP Sensor)
HTH,
Cheers Dave
There is no such thing as a Car that can't be fixed, just so called "Mechanics, Garages ans Specialists" that can't fix them
Mine had exactly the same problem, and I bought the Car with the fault, the Guy had been to various "specialists" and spent a fortune, in the end he sold the car off cheap to me !!
I bought a s/h low miles Turbo and a rebuild kit for the Actuator.
When I stripped it all off, I found that the Actuator to Turbo Rod was bent, that was actually the problem
However, I also fitted the Rebuild Kit to the Actuator, and fitted the low mileage Turbo, put it back together and car was perfect as soon as I drove it. It has since done around 5000 miles and is still perfect.
How do you know that Actuator hasn't got an Intermittent Fault??
The code you are getting suggests that the ECU is reporting that the Actuator is not in the correct place for the Boost that the ECU is seeing :wink
This "Position" is sensed from a Sensor in the Actuator.
I'd have fitted the Actuator Rebuild Kit at the very least, if not a New Actuator :wink
If you are convinced these are not faulty, then put a Boost Pressure Sensor on it :wink (MAP Sensor)
HTH,
Cheers Dave
Totally agree with you Dave, unfortunately my thing is computers, no such thing as one of them that can't be fixed either , actually if this was a computer I would see it as a personal challenge and do whatever I had to do to get to the bottom of it , so all I can do is rely on the opinion and advice of the so called " experts " lol, anyway, I shoulda mentioned as I had got the actuator rebuild kit from your link way back in this post and even though I could see nothing wrong with the actuator I still installed all the new internals inside , then had it all tested by a local " turbo specialist " who had Mercedes Star ( Das) diagnostics, both ON and OFF the car , he was full of confidence at the start but very quickly lost interest when it didn't fix , so I moved onto another guy who had the car for a week and came up with faulty Maf, so I replaced that , unfortunately I live way too far from you cause I'm pretty sure you'ld have it sorted , I really like the car and wish I could figure out what's wrong , it's not even cost that's stopping me btw, it's just I simply don't know what else to try and I have ran out of " experts " prepared to look at it , if you feel a new Map sensor would help then I'll source and fit one of those , am I correct its connected to the mix chamber via a little vacuum hose ? I have even suggested getting a fully reconditioned turbo with a matched actuator to fit to the car but all these " experts " tell me it will make no difference , so I still apprieciate any advice / thoughts you can input , and I will certainly try the new map sensor and post back what happens ! Btw , in your opinion , do you think it's worth fitting a recon turbo with a matched new actuator ? Onward and upward ! ��
Kind regards Arthur
Kind regards Arthur
P.S , by my way of thinking , it seems that for whatever reason the ecu is deciding to cut off the turbo and put the car in limp mode , so either the actuator is getting stuck ( which everybody says it isn't ) , or , it's not getting the matching readings from values like , Air volume ( maf ) etc , its as if even though I'm asking for more boost via the throttle , half the brain is getting readings that suggest we're just cruising Along so the Ecu decides to cut it all back , I dunno , just clutching at straws with my limited knowledge , lol, believe it or not I was a time served mechanic way back in the day , but that was land rovers and minis with no Canbus, these days it's a very different matter ,
Omg , Ok so get this , Mercedes Belfast ( Formerly Issac Agnew ) have never heard of a Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor !! ( MAP ) ever !! On any vehicle !! Shows what I'm up against !! Lol
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9,046 Posts
Hi,
MB probably call that sensor a boost sensor, or some other rubbish translation from German LOL, I get this a lot.
Yes, with Cover off engine, it is mounted on a little Bracket with a pipe going to it.
Bosch p/n is 0 261 230 193
I wouldn't fit another Turbo, but I would try a different Turbo Actuator if MAP, (Boost) sensor doesn't cure it.
Try a local Factor, Intermotor do a good line in sensors, I know they do them for the MB's as I've got them from my own Factors at times.
You could also phone Turbo Technics and tell them the code you are getting and ask their opinion, I've heard good reports about them.
Cheers Dave
MB probably call that sensor a boost sensor, or some other rubbish translation from German LOL, I get this a lot.
Yes, with Cover off engine, it is mounted on a little Bracket with a pipe going to it.
Bosch p/n is 0 261 230 193
I wouldn't fit another Turbo, but I would try a different Turbo Actuator if MAP, (Boost) sensor doesn't cure it.
Try a local Factor, Intermotor do a good line in sensors, I know they do them for the MB's as I've got them from my own Factors at times.
You could also phone Turbo Technics and tell them the code you are getting and ask their opinion, I've heard good reports about them.
Cheers Dave
Am I right in thinking the actuator is matched to the turbo ? Or can I just fit a new unit and go ?
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