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2000 W210 E55 AMG, Silver/Black - Stock
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I bought my car at 125K. Not sure if it had shocks replaced.

Bottom line is the car does not float so I have had no reason to think my shocks are worn out... until now.

Some of you may recall I was ragging on my new Yokos since they got so noisy after just 12 months. Well, even after I fixed a dented rim and replaced the Yokos with Michelins, changed two ball joints and had the car aligned.

The michelins are starting to make noise and I have noticed cupping on outside treads. I suspension seems to check out OK and the alignment shop said that the numbers checked out, and that cupping is probably shocks.

The car is at 150K and I have noticed the ride had gotten rougher at some point (IMHO another sign if failing damping). But at that time, it was something I attributed to my "adjusting" to the car and therefore only in my head.

Now I am really thinking the shocks could be culprit but can they fail at say 65 MPH such that the wheels hop and over time cup the tread but at the same time, the shocks still work fine as far as boating or floating? My car does not rebound more than once (which seems normal) in dips. But maybe at freeway speeds they allow wheel hop oscillation which causes the cupping? I can not feel anything in the car.

Starting to dread my tires getting louder. I would like to stop this now.

Wondering what the rest of you think.

If it is the shocks, then are correct part numbers for the front (750) and rear (430) ? EDIT: Shocks in. 430 in front, 750 in rear. See below.
 

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1997 S420, 2000 E55
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Could very well be shocks, but if possible I would first have the car aligned at another shop just to verify the two readings. Alignment procedures are very easy to screw up and if it is a camber issue that would be easier to fix.

Attached are the alignment specs if you want to cross reference.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks. I had it done at two shops. According to some reading up, the "interweb" tends to agree with my shop that bad alignment does not cause cupping.

Do you happen to know which shocks are on the front and back? From what I have read 750 on front, 430 on back.
 

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2000 W210 E55 AMG, Silver/Black - Stock
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Discussion Starter #4
Found this jem that implicates the shocks at the high-frequency damping failure that causes cupping but not boating. Shyeet. Wish I new about this before.

Okay, now I really need to sort out those part numbers.

TDIClub Forums - View Single Post - Will cupped tires smooth out?

"To further the reason for cupping, the wheel/brake/axle system has mass. This mass is attached to the body with a spring. So the mass-spring combination forms a mechanical oscillator with frequency(radians per second) being the square root of the spring constant (force/displacement) divided by the mass. This is a much higher frequency and the most energetic one. All it takes is minor road surface imperfection to drive the wheel system into oscillation.

Now there is a second, lower frequency based on the mass of the car and the spring rate. The damping of the shock absorbers in this range (higher amplitude, much lower frequency) rarely is lost. But the high frequency damping component of the shocks/struts can be lost after as little as 30k miles.

If you were to observe a car with a loss of high frequency damping at highway speed, the wheels look like they are vibrating at about 20-50 Hz. Voila, instant cuppinig. And once wear sets in, the shocks/struts are abused to where all damping in this frequency is lost. Oil foams, orifices wear, seals are shot and pressure lost. "
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Just got off the phone with Bilstein.

They said 24-062046 for front and 24-062053 rear.

They also said that these are called the "B8" series which is the new name for their "Sport" line.
 

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I would recommend you check older posts on shock replacement - and cross reference the older Bilstein #'s to the new Bilstein as a double check.

We have at least 2 posts on the install - under the former Bilstein cross-reference they had the shocks reversed - and the posts also show the drop-in procedure.

Replacing shocks is relatively painless - install is smooth.

Keep the beat !
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Thanks fabbrisd1.

I got fed up after not finding too many available for the PN's I got from Bilstein and they were all about $120 each.

I googled again for the correct numbers just to see what was out there and the numbers came back that had come up in the threads here (W0133-1910430 for the rear... and W0133-1910750), PLUS they were readily available through PartsGeek.com for less.

I just placed an order for all four. $366. Quite a deal but this car is starting to nickel and dime me to death especially after the AC compressor died ($1126).

Yikes.

I will create a new post with the title giving the correct PN's for front and rear so it is clear what is what.

Thanks for all the help.
 

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I would not post the "correct" part # until you have them installed in the car - Bilstein up to now has the part#'s front/back reversed - meaning in the old series what Bilstein swore went on the front actually fit the back and vice versa.

If you ordered all 4 you are fine either way - but with the old series if you followed Bilsteins direction you ended up with the low rider jacked up in the front.

Install is straight forward - same as standard W210 pictoral. I would drop in the fronts first.
 

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So this thread has me thinking - are the OEM's not Bilsteins? I noticed that all four of mine are marked as Bilsteins but just assumed they where OEM. Previous owner's records show they were installed at MB.

Any clarification?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I would not post the "correct" part # until you have them installed in the car - Bilstein up to now has the part#'s front/back reversed - meaning in the old series what Bilstein swore went on the front actually fit the back and vice versa.

If you ordered all 4 you are fine either way - but with the old series if you followed Bilsteins direction you ended up with the low rider jacked up in the front.

Install is straight forward - same as standard W210 pictoral. I would drop in the fronts first.
That is my plan. I will take out a side at a time (front/rear) and compare side by side before reinstallation.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Shock mount (rubber donut): What part number for the front? Same as the rear?
 

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Hey old pal. "Never ending noises" LOL. Can you describe the noise you have? I have begun to suspect (possibly stuck caliper) warped rear rotors. As mentioned before, my sound is "now" a constant low wa-wa-wa-wa-wa. With windows down or radio on you might not even hear it.

Reference (In order):
Motor & Trans Mounts (first week)
- developed intermittent vibration @ 60mph
New Front Bearings (prob. didn't need them but DIY cheap)
New Flex Discs (needed/worn with cracks around grommets, not obvious until removed)
Tire Balance - (*Resolved Vibration*)
- developed metallic hum/low whistle/blow on glass bottle noise most obvious @ (+-)70mph
MB Alignment
- developed wa-wa-wa-wa-wa - assumed bad tire noise - ride became noticeably rough.
*(discovered DS r/tire had been driven flat by PO)
bought used DS r/tire (e-bay)
4 wheel Balance
- wa-wa-wa-wa noise still there/hum still there/could not rule out used tire being bad
4 NEW TIRES road force balanced (less than 300 miles)
-wa-wa-wa-wa still there but much less pronounced=tire tread absorbing it - hum still there)
New Rear Bearings (they were bad)
New Diff. Side Seals and rear cover reseal (leaking bad-cheap fixed along w/r bearings)

Result - Ride's much smoother / Hum still there / wa-wa-wa-wa faint, but noticeable


I know you just ordered shocks, but have you ever changed your rear rotors? My understanding is they are "prone to warping". I can only feel it if I'm moving extremely slow (walking speed) with my foot barely on brake...as when approaching a speed bump. I don't really feel it in the pedal at all, but the car has a very subtle pulsing or lunging motion under those described conditions. I think it may also have been a factor in several of the problems above. Planning to pull rear wheels off and inspect this weekend. I think it could possibly cause cupping as well. Still not ruling out emergency brake failure/aging springs/dust build up either. Nickel and dimed? I'm feeling quarter and dollar'd :)

Just a thought, not trying to hijack your thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
No worries. When you changed your tires, did the noise stop for a while?

It sure sounds like my sound which I am almost certain is cupped (scalloped) treads which I am pretty sure is caused by my shocks having failed (probably original after 12 years and 150,000 miles). The car doesn't bounce and float, the car does fine that way, but my ride got rougher before my tires (both sets) started cupping a while ago. I thought it was in my head, but now I think that's when the stock shocks finally gave out in certain ways. I have read and expect that my tire noise developed from bad shocks. We will see.

My problem is now, once I change the shocks, my tires are already cupped and they will not smooth out on their own. I have to sand my tires down to remove the cupping as much as I can. I have some ideas how to do this and will report back.
 

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No worries. When you changed your tires, did the noise stop for a while?

It sure sounds like my sound which I am almost certain is cupped (scalloped) treads which I am pretty sure is caused by my shocks having failed (probably original after 12 years and 150,000 miles). The car doesn't bounce and float, the car does fine that way, but my ride got rougher before my tires (both sets) started cupping a while ago. I thought it was in my head, but now I think that's when the stock shocks finally gave out in certain ways. I have read and expect that my tire noise developed from bad shocks. We will see.

My problem is now, once I change the shocks, my tires are already cupped and they will not smooth out on their own. I have to sand my tires down to remove the cupping as much as I can. I have some ideas how to do this and will report back.
Well, I hope you're on the right track.

Here is the BS I went through to get to this point. When I bought the car in Feb, I did notice a very slight lurching as I slowed for a speed bump on my test drive, but there were no other symptoms. When the wa-wa-wa-wa noise first started (which wasn't present @ purchase), I went looking for the source. That's when I noticed a groove around the driver's rear sidewall. I thought it was a freakin retread at first. Took it to the local tire shop and the guy said it had been driven while flat, causing the groove. The tire seemed fine when they balanced it (I now think it was). So, I got it aligned by MB. No luck. Still wa-wa-wa-wa-wa and getting louder. So, thinking it was specific to the damage done on that tire, I bought a used one (e-bay) in similar tread condition but without the sidewall damage. SAME EXACT NOISE and level. I should have known it was not my tires then, but knew any mechanic would tell me that I got a bad used tire...and I had no way of knowing myself. So, I bought new tires to rule them out as the source of this noise. I was listening specifically for it on the way home from the tire shop. Sure enough, there it was. It was "MUCH...MUCH" less audible than with my old rear pilot MO's which were at about 4-5/32 (almost to the wear bars). If you had the radio on or windows down you would have to be a bat to hear it. Windows up/radio off and it's faint..but there. I contribute the noise reduction to tread absorption, which can mask the problem until you ruin another set of expensive tires.

My shocks are the original bilsteins. FYI, my car only has 66k miles right now in the garage. By the looks and shape I would say it's been taken care of and always garaged with only 1 other local owner. So if our problem is the same and is the shocks...it's likely happening due to age and not miles. My ride seems perfect other than this annoying wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa.....etc....etc... Handling is tight, no floating. I have a tiny bit of lane-wander when it's very windy, which I attribute to lower ball joints and CA bushings (on the list). I am fairly certain that "all" my noise is coming from the rear...which I "think/guess" should be more distributed if it were shocks.

Have you changed rear rotors or inspected for issues with stuck calipers or perhaps even a faulty emergency brake. Honestly, with this design...I could see a faulty emergency brake heating up the drum and causing a lot of the issues I've seen on here (premature bearing failure/warped rotors/alignment/balance). I'm not ruling out a dealership douche bag taking a pre-sales joy ride to include a few power brakes for good fun...that can happen to anyone and would likely start the warp of rear rotors that are already prone. That might not show up for a good bit as well, since most of our car's braking is done at the front.

I'm going after the rear brakes to rule them out. They're also pretty cheap. (-$200 for pads and brembo rotors from my initial pricing). I'll poke around for some good DIY rear brake inspection info. first. I was in the same boat as you with the tires. Had to buy brand new ones to rule them out. FWIW BF Goodrich g-force sport comp-2 is a very very good tire for the money and looks great on the car (very pilot like/BFG owned by Michelin). I can tell that they will be slightly more noisy than the pilots, even after I get this pulsating noise sorted out, but ride quality and handling are fantastic (wet or dry). I think a little more noise is worth half the price ($853 - all 4 out the door with road force balance @ discount tire warehouse) I told them I could get a set from tire rack for $797 delivered and have them mounted for $13 per tire...they pretty much matched that # and all I had to do was swipe and sign. I also took 3 of my pilots back because I thought it might not be them...and now I think that was an accurate assumption. I may sell my front 2 on here for a reasonable price as they were almost new...or keep them and drop them back on later so I can just buy rears. I have 1 rear (passenger side) that has nice even wear but is a few hairs off the wear bar. Doesn't seem cupped. I'll let it go cheap if you (or anyone wants it). I paid $135 for the used one I let go. I would let mine go for half that + shipping. Wish now I would have kept all 4. Good luck on tire sanding/shaving, let me know how that's done... :D

I'm nearing $4k in maint. for the 6 months I've owned the car...beat that! As dumb as it sounds, I'm really hoping for warped rear rotors!! :rolleyes:
 

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Well...

SAome of what I can share...

Original shocks I have seen have AMG markings.. original shocks I replaced at 122K miles (thinking my shocks were "worn") were tested by Bilstein in El Cajon and came back 87%. I would estimate non-damaged shocks last out to 200K.

The most common rear occurence I have seen has been whacked out rear control arms because at one point a tow truck driver hooked on to pull a E55/E320 up on a flat bed rather than using bumper tow hook.

E55's do get increasingly harsh when running fronts at/below 50% original tread - and last 25% of tread gets to be a bit of kidney busting.

Shock replacement is affordable, and simple. My mobile mech I use on my general stuff did labor $20 a wheel in my driveway with the DIY photos slick as pie.

I would simply ask Bilstein for corsss reference of new series part#s to old series part # and go straight from the forum bible post for E55's.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Got my shocks delivered today. Two yellow, two black. Although the parts themselves did not have the "750" and "430" PN's, the reciept identified the yellow ones as the "750" and therefore supposed to go on the front. I will take off one front and rear per side and compare when I do it.
 

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The most common rear occurence I have seen has been whacked out rear control arms because at one point a tow truck driver hooked on to pull a E55/E320 up on a flat bed rather than using bumper tow hook.
Hey Fab. Thanks for the advice. That is a pretty good possibility in my case. Is the issue you refer to an issue of bending the control arms or just knocking the rear out of alignment (or both)? Is there any good way to inspect for it? Would it seem to get worse with time? Do you know of warping issues with rear rotors (all w210, not just E55)?

Thanks!
 
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