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1996 S600 (Sebastian), 1999 SLK230 Kompressor (Tie Fighter)
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638 Posts
my indie is using all mb parts and fluids and charging $40/hr and he'll do it in the time allowed or less. he's giving me discounts on all parts so i'm getting them well below what is 'retail'. again, he's not out to 'steal' from me and has only my and Sebastian's best interest in mind. i just phoned him to be sure on things so i'm quoting correctly...i have the new tranny and so it will be a bit more expensinve on the fluid but around $8 - $9 /qt and there will only be about 5 qts because he won't be flushing the system. the total cost will be about $120 to $130. remember that the stealers charge $110/hr! the stealers would certainly be at $200 or more w/o discounts. gotta love indies who know what they're doing. anyway, my Sebastian is in the best of hands and will live a long and fruitful life, no question.

and when i asked him about flushing he said he wouldn't reccommend flushing a tranny because it allows the contaminates to come in contact with the clutches, etc and can cause slipping, and other problems etc. the only way he'd flush a tranny is if the person insisted ont it, and then he'd only do it if the owner agreed to return after 10k miles or so to have it all flushed again, but he'd reccommend against it.

sorry there aren't more of these sensible, honest types around for the rest of mb folks.
 

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1997 E320, 1997 S320
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2,946 Posts
aristotled said:
my indie is using all mb parts and fluids and charging $40/hr and he'll do it in the time allowed or less. he's giving me discounts on all parts so i'm getting them well below what is 'retail'. again, he's not out to 'steal' from me and has only my and Sebastian's best interest in mind. i just phoned him to be sure on things so i'm quoting correctly...i have the new tranny and so it will be a bit more expensinve on the fluid but around $8 - $9 /qt and there will only be about 5 qts because he won't be flushing the system. the total cost will be about $120 to $130. remember that the stealers charge $110/hr! the stealers would certainly be at $200 or more w/o discounts. gotta love indies who know what they're doing. anyway, my Sebastian is in the best of hands and will live a long and fruitful life, no question.

and when i asked him about flushing he said he wouldn't reccommend flushing a tranny because it allows the contaminates to come in contact with the clutches, etc and can cause slipping, and other problems etc. the only way he'd flush a tranny is if the person insisted ont it, and then he'd only do it if the owner agreed to return after 10k miles or so to have it all flushed again, but he'd reccommend against it.

sorry there aren't more of these sensible, honest types around for the rest of mb folks.
i agree with the flushing part. but your torque converter has a drain plug, so you can drain the fluid in there also, so all the fluid should come out and this way you will need 8 litres of atf.
 

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1997 E320, 1997 S320
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2,946 Posts
no, draining means getting the old fluid out + changing pan gasket+filter and replacing with new fluid. when flushing they use new fluid but don't open the pan while the old filter is still there and the old fluid is pushed in there. i have got advised not to flush the atf numerous times both in the forum and by mechanics.
 

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1988 BMW 325iC
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60 Posts
My $.02 cents: Since around 1997, BMW has been using "lifetime" synthetic fluids in their transmissions and diffs, and it's appalling the failure rate of these components. It's nearly impossible to destory a differential, but because of lack of fluid changes, it's happening. And the transmissions are failing around 120k. Anyone who knows cars says that you should change the fluids at reasonable intervals; 70,000 miles or so for the auto transmission, and anywhere from 30,000-50,000 for the diff.
 

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W639 Vito 110 CDI; Ponton 220S; VW Phaeton V10 tdi; 1995 S500 ex diplomatic car (gone)
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574 Posts
Its not necessarily the fluid, but the build up of contaminant particles within. Also, any active chemical will expire/get used up. The action of gears will have an effect on the molecular chains too. And the guarantee is for how long...?

When talking about MB own branded fluids, would somebody please give me the reference on GoogleEarth so I can have a look at MB's refinery complex?

Get real, MB buy in to a spec. from an oil company. Make sure you get the right spec. and there you are. If MB change contract from say Mobil to Shell, does that mean that we should all follow like sheep? Possibly it is a business decision?

When F1 had more than one tyre supplier then a trip down to the showroom would reflect this. It really is not a question of Michelin being the only tyre for my car etc. Again, construction and spec. for the car matters more than make. Manufacturer selects and specifies from a range available, or vice versa. It does not mean that only one supplier will do for ever more. Otherwise we would still all be on fibre cord crossplies and dismantling our spark plugs every 1000 miles for filing and cleaning as only "new cars" can vary! On the subject of plugs, my wfe's BMW dealer was strict in their insistance for BMW plugs. Takealookand sure enough NGK stamped into the metal. Humm; Japanese?

Vorsprung Durch Technik my arse!
 

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F250 7.3TD Mercedes Benz W140 S600 1996 119k k's(sold), MB W124 300E 1989 261k k's(sold)
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464 Posts
I'd say change it. For a couple of hundred bucks, drain it, drop off the pan, change the filter and pan gasket and re-fill with the correct rating ATF. But make sure everything is scupriously clean!

I haven't had a tranny problem, but I did have my SLS blow out earlier this year (boat OK but sunk car thread or something similar). Anyway the long and short of it was that the failure, I'm pretty sure, was caused by lack of viscosity in the SLS hydrolic fluid. The fluids do degrade. Why is just about every other fluid in the car replaced at specifed intervals?
The only thing I have seen in favour of the sealed tranny is that MB is quite particular about NOT introducing contaminants into the tranny. They suggest wiping the tranny dipstick (where fitted) with a leather cloth as even cloth lint can adversely affect the tranny! Maybe MB are worried that there's MORE chance of tranny failure with new fluid + accidently introduced contaminants as opposed to sealed system with no (or just factory introduced) contaminants + old fuild.

I guess where we are coming from is we want the best of both worlds, new fluid + NO contaminants. And certainly not some requirement for a 5 figure sum to replace the thing that's gutted itself before its time!
 

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1997 S320 (89,xxx miles)
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141 Posts
Just had mine done at 77k by my indie mech (who was head mechanic at my local MB dealership before he went solo) for $220.00. Did fluid (MB Brand), filter and seal(s).

I do have a slight tranny kick went it shifts, it was worse before the change; not bad though... is this normal for only having 77k miles?

P.S. this car rocks!
 

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1995 W140 S280
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44 Posts
Gday gentlemen, sorry to bump an old thread but I have a relevant question and figured it would be good to keep all the information and advice together.
So I have a 722.4 rebuilt about 10k km ago (and new fluids at the point of course). I intend to give it a full service and have new gearbox filter and gasket on order (checked the VIN with seller), will also buy about 12 liters of good Dex 3 for a drain and flush. By flush I mean this thread, and a few others, where you pipe the transmission cooler input to a waste container and just let the engine idle while putting in new fluid until the output is 100% clean.

My question; should you do the drain (cleaning the pan+magnet, replacing filter+gasket) first before flushing with new fluid,
or flush until the fluid is clean then drop the pan and deal with the oily bits?
 

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1994 s600 coupe
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359 Posts
the purpose of a flush, is to change the fluid, without dropping the pan. it's a quickie workaround fix trans shops do.
if you pull the pan and change the filter/gasket, yes you should also clean the pan, because invariably there will be sediment in the bottom of the pan to some degree, that is the clutch lining material from the transmission as it wears.
you don't really have to flush it, if you drop the pan. it would be overkill. as any sediment in the valve body, etc. will instantly be captured in the new filter anyway. valve bodies are usually pretty clean, even if the filter is dirty or clogged.
the main thing is, change the filter. they do get clogged over time and starve the actuating drums, bands, hydraulic valves in the valve body, over time. if the clutch packs in the drums don't engage quickly and firmly, a partially engaged clutch pack will slip, and burn up the clutches.
then the entire trans has to be rebuilt.
I used to install a B&M "transpak" shift kit in every trans I had rebuilt, so the upshifts are more sudden, to minimize slippage. then the transmissions last a long, long time with normal and even fairly severe use, because there's zero slippage. the shifts occurred so suddenly it wold jolt the car and chirp the rear tires loose on the pavement at speed. but those transmissions then lasted decades, 20-30 years, and when the car was sold, were still going strong as the new buyer drove it away.
 

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1995 W140 S280
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44 Posts
Thanks v12. Without question I will be cleaning out the oil pan and change the filters+gaskets. Maybe even adding a magnet?
Based on your advice I guess this would make a flush unnecessary or even excessive.

That transpak mod sounds awesome and on a modest motor like my 280 the shifts might still be quite civilized.
Another project for another time. :geek:
 

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1994 s600 coupe
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359 Posts
I don't know if they make a kit for the MB cars, they might....back in the day 1978-2000 era, we routinely installed these in every performance car transmission we owned.

 

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1995 W140 S280
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44 Posts
As far as I can discern right now they don't, but your insight is appreciated. Does this also mean during normal driving I should try to avoid too much power during gear changes to minimize this slippage? I note that on firm accel between 1-2 (only, not the higher gears) the car lurches a bit but doesn't if I'm lighter on the gas. Am not a mechanic but surely nothing that lurches is good for any car I think?
 

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1994 s600 coupe
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359 Posts
you can drive your car as you please. the lurching is actually the drum/planetary gears engaging 2nd gear, with throttle it will do that, that is actually good. it means it's engaging quickly. it's when it engages slowly, the wear occurs to the clutch discs or bands
 

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600 coupe, one of the very first built
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47 Posts
As far as I can discern right now they don't, but your insight is appreciated
B&M kits are well-known for the GM product line.

The Benz 722.3 722.4 and 722.5 auto-boxes call for shift kits supplied by "Superior Transmission Parts".

 
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