[pancholi]

82K miles . no shift issues.
the level is spot on at 80 deg + engine at idle.
from the colour of the oil on the tissue, would you change the oil?
if not how long would you wait?
(there is no history of a gearbox oil change)
i would like to spend my funds to bring to life the front suspension instead.
cheers

 

[Pete S]

Looks like it was changed recently to have that color. I would head towards the suspension work.


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[vipergts]

I'm in the same boat...Some say change it...Others say leave it...Opinions?

 

[pancholi]

thanks for the reply.
the gearbox oil change seems controversial.
i have a range rover that is meant to have a sealed for life box.
same issues on the forums there as well.
everything form total flush to partial drain to don't touch as it may cause fluid shock!
i prefer to change fluids regularly as i like to believe that if changed often debris and sludge is removed before it has time to accumulate and then get dislodged during a drain and clog up valve bodies and flow channels.

 

[Pete S]

I changed mine first by dropping the pan replacing like three quarts, filter and gasket. Also read about fluid shock and was worried. Shortly after not even a month I dropped the pan again, and emptied the torque converter and filled with fresh fluids. Never had issues, can't say it got better but I have the piece of mind that it has fresh fluid.


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[wlb50]

Something to consider - that differential and transmission have a vent on the top - and if a driver is in a rain storm and on flooded streets - water can come into that vent.

Had that happen to my 300E - the shop owner kept arguing with me that it "wasn't necessary" and you could see the water coming out -

So if you don't know - I would drain it.

 

[pancholi]

Something to consider - that differential and transmission have a vent on the top - and if a driver is in a rain storm and on flooded streets - water can come into that vent.

Had that happen to my 300E - the shop owner kept arguing with me that it "wasn't necessary" and you could see the water coming out -

So if you don't know - I would drain it.

i know that there are vents BUT never thought that it was a two way street..
pressure release but also ingress!!!!

changed the diff oil last month. that came out syrup like( thick and yellow). the car was definitely quieter.

 

[wlb50]

i know that there are vents BUT never thought that it was a two way street..
pressure release but also ingress!!!!

changed the diff oil last month. that came out syrup like( thick and yellow). the car was definitely quieter.

When my 300E was fairly new (well 10 years old) and we had all this rain with plugged gutters in the street - after some arguing my shop put the car on a lift - drained the diff - and this gray crap came out - the transmission had water too although it wasn't as dramatic ;-) Hate to think what that repair would have cost had I left it in

Unless that water is at least 8" high on the street - I wouldn't worry about this though

I think - at least for the W124 - they specified changing the diff oil every 60K -

 

[lowesguy]

If its clean and doesn't smell like burning bananas,leave it! partial flush would be ok,at least you you would have a clean filter and 4-5 qt's

 

[e-420]

I'd either
a) change it or
b) get a oil analysis kit from blackstone labs, suction out about 4 oz. and send it to them for an analysis if the transmission fluid. They wiill tell you what condition the fluid is in and if they see any unusual wear particles as well. Then if they say it needs changing you have a definitive answer. Or they will tell you how many more miles to go before you either sample again or change it.

 

[Poundy]

Martin (MAVA) did a great explanation about the transmission fluid changes, search his posts. I thing the gist of it was that fluid shock was not a result of changing the fluid, but the method on how the fluid was changed. The shock came with the drying out of the converter when proper changing procedures were not adhered to. I changed mine completely as I have all the fluids. I always feel they are the most important part of a cars maintenance and protect the most expensive replacement items on the car. Apart from the cost of the oil, filters kits etc are cheap from the likes of Pelican & Autohausaz
Waiting for shift issues is like when the horse's bolted.

 

[MAVA]

Sorry, I repair transmissions...

That colour is a BIG no no...In a New York second I would change it. If it is 722.6, in a New York Half-A-Second I would change it....

Unless your tie-rod ends have a wobble of a half-inch or so... Change your fluid...


Also, while you are add-it. replace the circular connector with fresh Mercedes Connector(dealer part-no aftermarket, used, or ebay specials)

The goal is to avoid what is on post 5. Change the connector..

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/1570724-my-attempt-replacing-transmission-plug.html

One last thing,

Dissect the filter, and take pictures of the filter membrane on both sides for your records...The old filter will say a lot of information on the health of the transmission...

Martin

 

[Pete S]

Martin can you elaborate especially on the color.


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[MAVA]

Pete,

The fluid is breaking down as the result of heat when it starts to look like that.Mercedes(some) goes from red to gray, but yellow or brown is breaking down, and the burned smell is obvious to all, and that is the next step of the break down step

Most 90's and above vehicles are basically under-cooled when it comes to the transmission, and most transmissions overheat. Adding a separate radiator cooler will promote the integrity of the fluid, and the obvious to cool the transmission.

The danger with any 90's Mercedes vehicles with burned fluid has a different effect.

With the old 722.3-722.5 transmissions, The perimeter seals around the transmission(on the whole outside of the shell) get brittle hard, and the reverse lips seal take the beating.

With the 722.6, The K2 bearing, and conductor plate speed sensors.

This fluid like motor oil it's primary purpose is to cool then lubricate, but transmission fluid has a additional property of acting like a hydraulic fluid with a specified viscosity.

I will shot a picture of my E320 daily driver fluid color, and it look's red!! The fluid has about 20k miles on it so far, and is three years old. My fluid on all my vehicles stays "red" for a longer time because I do a fluid exchange to get all the fluid where a filter and pan oil gets only 40% of the old fluid, so fluid replacement has to have a higher replacement interval where I can go double the service interval.

I hope this helps,

Martin

 

[Pete S]

Yes Martin that helps. Always good to learn and understand as much about these cars as possible. :thumbsup:


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[UncleWolfy]

Sorry, I repair transmissions...

That colour is a BIG no no...In a New York second I would change it. If it is 722.6, in a New York Half-A-Second I would change it....

Unless your tie-rod ends have a wobble of a half-inch or so... Change your fluid...


Also, while you are add-it. replace the circular connector with fresh Mercedes Connector(dealer part-no aftermarket, used, or ebay specials)

The goal is to avoid what is on post 5. Change the connector..

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/1570724-my-attempt-replacing-transmission-plug.html

One last thing,

Dissect the filter, and take pictures of the filter membrane on both sides for your records...The old filter will say a lot of information on the health of the transmission...

Martin

I don't question your expertise concerning transmissions, just wanted to remind people though that up to the 722.5 transmissions Mercedes OEM ATF was red. Starting with the 722.6 I believe they changed it to gold brown. His 1996 SL500 might be using the brown stuff...so how does the color attract your attention? Check with the dealer what type of fluid your VIN/tranny needs.

Get yourself a quart of OEM Mercedes ATF from the dealer and let one quart out. Then smell it and compare them in a clear glass or bottle. That should give you an idea if you really need to change it.

Otherwise the following logic will never fail: Your Benz transmission has 60000 miles...open the ATF relief plug on the pan and drain the fluid, then drop the pan and clean it out and put in a new filter/gasket while you're in there, close it up and refill the amount that came out with new ATF through the dipstick tube (might need a new cover)...don't mess with the torque converter. Then change the fluid every 2-3 years. If you have an older Benz pre-722.6 tranny with flaring from second to third gear, change the K-1/K-2 springs during the process.

This should be a 20 min job and cost no more then 100 dollars including fluid and parts.

Works fine for my 722.5 1990 tranny now with 135.000 miles. Shifts like silk.

 

[pancholi]

thanks for the large write up UNCLEWOLFY AND martin.
alot of new info to me in this thread.
for less the $100 i will change the circular connector and gasket+ATF/filter.
quick enough job(hopefully).

any idea of approximately how much ATF i may need for a fill up(excluding the torque converter)..
thanks again

 

[MAVA]

Bad German design of brown fluid, but the old transmission fluid before the backwards compatible 722.9 fluid was red...Brown just brings A-LOT of ambiguity if the brown fluid is a measure well, everything everyone says is wrong...One has just to side on caution...Every mechanic will say what I just said.

I do not use Mercedes fluids for anything.

The comparison of fluids of smell is a good rule, but not a sure thing also because our clutches in these transmissions are brown, and one could wipe out the(literally) clutches on a low fluid condition, old fluid, or cooler failure, so then the smell may not be a factor, but the color is everything....

The 722.6 is a marvel of a transmission, but the second generation ones(late 99 to the present-in all classes of cars-Mercedes-Chrysler-Jaguar) have no flaws. The first generations are plagued with revisions, fixes, and versions that cannot be updated by STAR. One has to do a shoot-gun fix to repair some of the demons. One of the demons is the K2 bearing, and the seasonal demon is the transmission does not engage in the cold(this is a software glitch-the temperature sensor goes under scale per the computer, so the transmission does not not know how much delay to add between shifts).

If you do a partial fluid replacement(pan), I'd only go to 30k. A full fluid exchange then 60k is okay, plus the circular connector...

Use Shell ATF134 it is great fluid. The new Mercedes stuff is thinner and the word on the street is causes accelerated wear.

Martin

 

[rorypff]

I beg to differ (with unclewolfy)- transmission oil for the 6 series transmission is a red synthetic

 

[pancholi]

there is no burnt smell and the fluid feels thin and slippery.

so do i have the brown fluid or the red fluid that is burnt?

Shell ATF134 not available in the UK.
is Shell ATF134 brown or red? if red can i mix with brown for 30K miles?
how many Liters for a pan off only oil change?

thanks again