[LIV2RIP]

Hello I have a question that maybe a problem and maybe not.

When I start my car in the morning or anytime it is dead cold.

It has a whine like a belt is rubbing.But not overly so.Just enough to wonder if it is normal or not

When the car is warm it totally goes away and the car does not run bad or produce hiccups at all.

I was thinks that the belt that drives all the pulleys in front of the motor is too tight or not centered on the pulleys.

Anybody what to chime in to give recommendations Thanks in advance

 

[J. M. van Swaay]

The engine gurus will probably need to know what kind of engine you have.

J. M. van Swaay

 

[deanyel]

The non-engine gurus are probably curious too.

 

[necromancer]

Air injection pump noisy bearings.

 

[LIV2RIP]

3.2l m104 base non 4 matic

If it is my air injection pump what are the ramifications of this pump in the future and how will if affect the smog system and will it affect the smog system if I ran the car on a smog machine

 

[deanyel]

It's normal for air pumps to be noisy on cold start up, and quiet down in a minute or two.

 

[LIV2RIP]

Thanks for the response DEAN.That sets my mind at ease.For a minute I thought that I would have to run down to the dealer and drop a bag of money off for a new pump.

On the same note do you think the subtle whine is the air pump also

 

[deanyel]

Whether it's normal air pump noise or an aberation is something that may require a trained ear, but it's quite common that the normal momentary noise is suspected as a problem to those who aren't familiar with it. Is it a whine or a clatter? BTW, bad idea to take a car of that era to the dealer. Also air pump bearings if a problem are replaceable separately.

 

[necromancer]

You should take the serpentine belt off and check to make sure the pulley bearing on the air pump is still spinning true. If it isn't you should be able to see this with the belt on and the engine idling... typical sound is a screeching. The air pump bearings are not as likely to wear out as the pulley bearing because the air pump by nature is only operated at startup. If the pulley bearing is out then it is very simple to remove the pulley from the air pump and press out the old, press in a new bearing. Don't need to use a genuine INA... the bearing dimensions are pretty generic and you can get a compatible double-row bearing from bearingsdirect for under $20.

When you remove the air pump you should also check the 1-way valve between the pump and the exhaust manifold. If its not operating properly you will see alot of carbon in the two rubber tubes and that can act like sandpaper in the airpump to foul the bearings... I suspect that this is ONE of the major failure modes of airpump bearings... the other being extreme age and mileage.

 

[mckellyb]

Whether it's normal air pump noise or an aberation is something that may require a trained ear, but it's quite common that the normal momentary noise is suspected as a problem to those who aren't familiar with it. Is it a whine or a clatter? BTW, bad idea to take a car of that era to the dealer. Also air pump bearings if a problem are replaceable separately.

I'm glad you mentioned the clatter, 'cause I have both the whine, which I attributed to the air pump, though it sounds vaguely like a late-80's Ford PS pump on the 4.9L V-8, but the clatter has always bugged me a little.

 

[LIV2RIP]

You should take the serpentine belt off and check to make sure the pulley bearing on the air pump is still spinning true. If it isn't you should be able to see this with the belt on and the engine idling... typical sound is a screeching. The air pump bearings are not as likely to wear out as the pulley bearing because the air pump by nature is only operated at startup. If the pulley bearing is out then it is very simple to remove the pulley from the air pump and press out the old, press in a new bearing. Don't need to use a genuine INA... the bearing dimensions are pretty generic and you can get a compatible double-row bearing from bearingsdirect for under $20.

When you remove the air pump you should also check the 1-way valve between the pump and the exhaust manifold. If its not operating properly you will see alot of carbon in the two rubber tubes and that can act like sandpaper in the airpump to foul the bearings... I suspect that this is ONE of the major failure modes of airpump bearings... the other being extreme age and mileage.

so if the pulley bearing is bad that is the reason that it whines at start up only .

Some guy said that it is the air pump itself.

He said it like so if it whines at start up then it is the pump and if it whines after it is warms up then it is the pulley bearing.

It is said that when you first start up the engine the air pump and pulley are both turning and when it warms up the clutch engages and just the pulley is freewheeling.

How many bearings are in the air pump as I know that the pulley contains one.

Are the bearings in the pulley the same as the pump. Any ideal where I can locate the specs on one of these bearing for either. I got a handle on one for the pulley

Is the pump bearing sealed like the pulley. Necro did mention that the valve on the exhaust should be replaced which is the reason why these pumps go out.If the bearing is sealed then dirt should be impossible to penetrate.Iam assuming it isn't because sealed last forever

 

[thegearboxguy]

On cold start up the clutch is engaged, the pulley and pump are turning. The pump sound is what goes away after a few minutes the clutch has disengaged and now just the pulley is spinning. There is some noise when it is engaged, however if the noise has been changing over time it might indicate an internal issue. The check valve (one way valve) allows air from the air pump to pass into exhaust system when the pump is engaged and not allow exhaust gas to enter the pump. If the valve as failed, the exhaust will cause the pump to seize. The check valve should be replaced at least when ever the air pump is replaced and checked every couple of years. There is another bearing inside the pump and other part that wear. Because of the high pulley bearing failure rate pumps are replaced before the other parts wear out. If you replace just the bearing of even the complete pulley & clutch assy. The rest of the pump is still old, you may or may not have issues down the road.

 

[LIV2RIP]

ok so what is your suggestion and your diagnosis.

Sound has not been changing and the noise goes away after a few minutes.

There are no warning signs as far as lights that go on so I figure that the pump is not bad.

This being the case then the pulley bearing is not bad but the pump bearing itself.

Since you have a vast amount of knowledge because this may have happened to your can you provide resources for

A air pump teardown diagram of all the parts

size of the bearing or where I can source this

and if the pulley bearing is the same as the pump bearing

Since the thread has been pretty far worn out and has been pinpointed as the culprit

 

[thegearboxguy]

If the pulley bearing is bad it should make the noise all the time, engaged or not. I would at least inspect the check valve, there not much $ if it were my car and I did not know the history I'd just replace it. If the valve is bad relplacing it hopfully can extend the life of the pump if the noise has not been changing you might be OK. If the check engine light comes on with an "Air Injection Sys." code it does not mean the pump is bad, it means there is an issue with the Air Injection Sys. and could be any number of things. I then would just drive it and not worry, when the pump fails replace it, it may go a long time. Now I'm biais if you click on my user name and veiw my public profile you'll see why, and you'll know why I know what I do. The bearing inside the pump is standard, the pulley bearing is not. I am not aware of any diagrams. If you search the net enough there are company's selling some of the parts, I would advise you to shy away from rebuilding it yourself, it could cost you more in the long run.

Good luck,

Chris

 

[sammywater]

whine goes away when warm

When I start in the morning or anytime it is dead cold.

It has a whine like a belt is rubbing, but not overly so. Just enough to wonder if it is normal or not, When she gets warm it totally goes away .... chime in to give recommendations Thanks in advance

Well, I know what THAT is called. A wife!!!!
As long as the whine goes away when she's warm, I don't think you have too much to be concerned about...LOL

 

[LIV2RIP]

thanks 4 t advice chris

 

[Dave 21v]

95 E320 Engine Noise (M104) at Startup - Any input?

Check out : 95 E320 Engine Noise (M104) at Startup - Any input?

I have the same Noise WITH THE BELT OFF !!!

It is in the Engine !!

Found 3 more E320's on Utube with the same Noise.

Dave V

 

[Real1shepherd]

Definitely follow Chris's advice, as he's in the business of selling remans to dealers and parts houses. Some people rebuild them themselves, but that's not the same as a facility to rebuild & test using modern machinery. They are not that horribly expensive, relative to the MB parts scheme. I've rebuilt other pumps, specifically Dodge, with mixed results. Sometimes the pulley bearings are put in place and then hard setting plastic is poured around them..... a nightmare. All in all, it's just worth it to get a quality reman. This is one DIY job I see as futility.

Kevin

 

[Funky Mad]

I'll go in with something stupid but have you checked your P/S fluid? Mine used to whine a bit at cold when it was low then go away on warm

 

[Real1shepherd]

Well, I know what THAT is called. A wife!!!!
As long as the whine goes away when she's warm, I don't think you have too much to be concerned about...LOL

I sense a 'blonde joke' coming this way soon......

Kevin