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Discussion Starter #1
OK so I'm thinking about better tunes in the car. With the top down cruising the weak 4" in the dash just don't do it. I'm contemplating a component system with 1" tweeters ( top of dash or A pillar mounted) 4", mid bass, in the factory dash locations and 6 1/2" in the map pockets or 6 1/2' or 6x9' in the parcel shelf. If I go with the map pockets does anyone know of a place to get an enclosure to replace the front of the map pocket.

YES I know I'll be cutting a bit of the car up but dam-it it is the 21st century and I do like my music on my trips.

And yes I'll also be getting a new HU and a amp. The amp will most likely go under one of the seats.

Any other thoughts, suggestions, and of course the always good natured ribbing.
 

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Any other thoughts, suggestions, and of course the always good natured ribbing.
I thought about the map pockets, but those suckers are EXPENSIVE and then you'd have to do all kinds of custom plastic or fiberglass work to make the speakers fit, then you'd have to recover them and when you got all done there wouldn't be enough air space behind them to give any kind of decent resonance chamber so the sound would be weak.

I went with 6x9s in the rear parcel shelf. Line the cavity with a sound insulator (it doesn't have to be hi-tech, I used old towels), use some self-adhesive foam weatherstripping to create an air barrier between the two sides so you don't muddy the stereo separation or create a canceling effect on the bass, and you've got good sound at a decent price in a unit that can be easily repaired/replaced/restored if you ever want to. The parcel shelf is just 3/8" plywood.
 

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I thought about the map pockets, but those suckers are EXPENSIVE and then you'd have to do all kinds of custom plastic or fiberglass work to make the speakers fit, then you'd have to recover them and when you got all done there wouldn't be enough air space behind them to give any kind of decent resonance chamber so the sound would be weak.

I went with 6x9s in the rear parcel shelf. Line the cavity with a sound insulator (it doesn't have to be hi-tech, I used old towels), use some self-adhesive foam weatherstripping to create an air barrier between the two sides so you don't muddy the stereo separation or create a canceling effect on the bass, and you've got good sound at a decent price in a unit that can be easily repaired/replaced/restored if you ever want to. The parcel shelf is just 3/8" plywood.
Yes, what is with those map pockets @ $400+ each and kick them once getting out and there broken. I might just go into business making these out of Kevlar. And of course someone will want them made out of unfinnishad Carbon Fiber. Or maybe I will have them profile machined out of a solid chunk of Ti.

Good point about the parcel shelf being replaceable. I will be looking into ways of putting the rear speakers into the rear side panels. Has anyone put a pair of 6x9's there. I like the parcel shelf idea but I also occasionally put a rear seat in there or parcels would you believe.

John Roncallo
 

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I thought about the map pockets .... and when you got all done there wouldn't be enough air space behind them to give any kind of decent resonance chamber so the sound would be weak.
Scott -- I know Performance Products use to sell a kit which I thought had a modified map pocket. But I couldn't find it on their site. I was thinking about a mid Bass unit there so a little dynamat in the door with the pocket sealed should give enough of a chamber for me. I'm not really into 50cent and the bass shaking the windows.

I went with 6x9s in the rear parcel shelf.
Here again I saw the PP setup and they had a very nice parcel shelf mod which raised it a bit and had good baffling and depth. Again I wish I could find it on their site. I guess it didn't sell well enough and they canceled the production.

Does anybody know anybody at PP (think Kevin Bacon and 7 degrees of separation) that might be able to get me in-touch with authorities that be for a set of the Plans?????

I might just go into business making these out of Kevlar. And of course someone will want them made out of unfinnishad Carbon Fiber.
Good point about the parcel shelf being replaceable. I will be looking into ways of putting the rear speakers into the rear side panels. Has anyone put a pair of 6x9's there. I like the parcel shelf idea but I also occasionally put a rear seat in there or parcels would you believe.
John --

The only thing I don't like about the rear shelf is that all the sound is going straight up and there isn't anything to reflect it back into the listening area. How good are you with fiberglass? What would it take to make this type of thing for the A pillar??



Something like this, angled a bit more into the compartment and some mid bass in the doors and you might have a good sound stage????
 

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Don't get too excited at what you might install in your dash. It is a VERY confined space of which few speakers fit.
There is surface mount tweeters that are small enough to mount on the pillar. These along with some pioneers are what I'm looking at.
Polk Audio Polk db1001 1" Dome Tweeters: Compare Prices, View Price History and Read Reviews at NexTag.
As far as the parcel shelf is concerned, I modified mine. I am sure it's not everyones cup of tea but there is a 10" sub on the parcel shelf then a dummy shelf on top of that. Two 6 x 9's angled forward. I am happy with the sound...at any speed. I just want a little more tweet up front.
 

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Scott -- I know Performance Products use to sell a kit which I thought had a modified map pocket. But I couldn't find it on their site. I was thinking about a mid Bass unit there so a little dynamat in the door with the pocket sealed should give enough of a chamber for me. I'm not really into 50cent and the bass shaking the windows.



Here again I saw the PP setup and they had a very nice parcel shelf mod which raised it a bit and had good baffling and depth. Again I wish I could find it on their site. I guess it didn't sell well enough and they canceled the production.

Does anybody know anybody at PP (think Kevin Bacon and 7 degrees of separation) that might be able to get me in-touch with authorities that be for a set of the Plans?????



John --

The only thing I don't like about the rear shelf is that all the sound is going straight up and there isn't anything to reflect it back into the listening area. How good are you with fiberglass? What would it take to make this type of thing for the A pillar??



Something like this, angled a bit more into the compartment and some mid bass in the doors and you might have a good sound stage????
These would require buldge in the pillar moldings. The pillers themselves are strutural in that that is MB's rollbar for this car. The steal in this area is enormous and should not be compromised. Best plan here would be to go with a very shallow speaker with wide but shallow magnets.

It is unfortunate that the 107's even the latest 560's came with sound systems eqovolent to a 1956 "T" bird.

John Roncallo
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Don't get too excited at what you might install in your dash. It is a VERY confined space of which few speakers fit.
There is surface mount tweeters that are small enough to mount on the pillar. These along with some pioneers are what I'm looking at.
Polk Audio Polk db1001 1" Dome Tweeters: Compare Prices, View Price History and Read Reviews at NexTag.
As far as the parcel shelf is concerned, I modified mine. I am sure it's not everyones cup of tea but there is a 10" sub on the parcel shelf then a dummy shelf on top of that. Two 6 x 9's angled forward. I am happy with the sound...at any speed. I just want a little more tweet up front.
nobby --
That is the type of layout I was thinking I'd have to go with. I was just trying to not loose the parcel shelf if possible since I often need to throw things there for a trip (read wife gets the trunk and part of the parcel shelf and I get the rest of the shelf) ;)

This is the type of layout I was shooting for a focal polyglass VR3. which includes a 1" tweeter, a 4M (euro equivalent to the 4" in the dash with shallow mount) and a 6.5 woofer.

As I've found out the dash speaker is a problem because it isn't really a 4" but a "4M" as it's called in the states or, in reality, a 100mm speaker. Thats why so few speakers fit without a mod to the dash holder :(

These would require buldge in the pillar moldings.
John --

That's why I was thinking of a fiberglass "addition" to the A pillar to house the tweeter and small mid range. No structural mods, and visually not to bad, to my eye at least, if done nicely. The only question would then be how to get a matching material to cover it???
 

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How good are you with fiberglass? What would it take to make this type of thing for the A pillar??



Something like this, angled a bit more into the compartment and some mid bass in the doors and you might have a good sound stage????
I don't think I'd do that out of fiberglass, I think I'd cast it with an RTV mold or something like that. Get your hands on a regular A pillar, glue some rigid, high density foam to it and sculpt it into the shape you want, then create a mold with RTV and cast the new piece with urethane. If you want the texture, just get your hands on some of the MB Tex vinyl and cover the prototype before you create the mold, then the texture would be cast into the new piece. You can get just about any color of opaque dye to color match, it would just take some experimentation. Or say screw the texture, cast it smooth out of RTV and then use the MBTex to cover the new piece. It has a good amount of stretch and with the right adhesive you could get it shaped just as well as a factory piece. All MB did was put vinyl over rigid foam with a metal brace for structural strength.
 

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Scott -- Why do you think the fiberglass would not be a good material. Would it break, be to weak, not withstand the heat, etc??
And OK I'm not an engineer so what is RTV?
Fiberglass would be very brittle and I'm not sure it would hold up to the abuse a top-down experience would subject it to. Especially on the A pillar, with the top going up and down.

RTV is just a quick mold plastic, and it's the easiest way to make a mold. You sculpt the shape you want, spray it with a mold release agent, build a little wooden box big enough to hold the piece, then put in some RTV, put the piece on top of it, and pour more RTV on it until you've got the mold. I'm getting ready to do something very much like this (on a lot smaller scale) for my ignition key. I got tired of the way the head was always breaking because it's just a flimsy little piece of soft plastic. I bought a new key head, so it was all pristine, then I'll make a mold out of RTV. When I get done I'll be able to cast a solid resin head for my key that will be a lot stronger than the one I can get as a replacement. If it ever breaks, I can just salvage the metal part and cast a new one, but the resin I plan to use is pretty tough. I'd have to use a hammer and chisel to break it.

If you'd like, I'll post photos of my key project when I do it. Then you can see how it's done. Once you've done it on a small piece, it's very easy to scale it up.

Here, I just found this online and it explains how molds and casting works on a small scale:
View attachment 82708mrrresinart.pdf
 

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Does anyone know where to find the map-pocket speakers? I saw those for the first time in an eBay listing for a 1989 560SL that said it had a "dealer upgraded sound system."

I really like the way it keeps the factory look of the car's interior. Does anyone have these or know where to find them?
 

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So would I. Just went and measured and the map pocket width is a little under 2". I am guessing they are 1" tweeters. If not I can't see how any decent sound can come from them.
 

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So would I. Just went and measured and the map pocket width is a little under 2". I am guessing they are 1" tweeters. If not I can't see how any decent sound can come from them.
Absolutely. I would think that the system with the pictures shown is a 6 speaker system:
- two original location dash
- two map pocket tweeters
- two large speakers, maybe even a sub, and extra amplifier, under the expanded deck lid.


Going OT: Anyone ever consider getting inside the dash and cutting holes for up-facing tweeters to bounce off the windshield (like new cars)?
 

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Absolutely. I would think that the system with the pictures shown is a 6 speaker system:
- two original location dash
- two map pocket tweeters
- two large speakers, maybe even a sub, and extra amplifier, under the expanded deck lid.


Going OT: Anyone ever consider getting inside the dash and cutting holes for up-facing tweeters to bounce off the windshield (like new cars)?
Fonz,

Have you reviewed Nobby's tweeter install thread? It is buried in the epic "Finally got started" thread (which is exactly why run away posts loose their value...) http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r-c107-sl-slc-class/1307408-i-finally-started-21.html#post4333458

It should be in the EGv107 under "Audio", but who is gonna separate it from ALL the other stuff in that epic thread?
 
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