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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
Thank you guys.

The 445 is a 445A amp. Which means direct plug and play with the existing alpine deck. Impossible to mess up the install. Only one way it plugs in.
When I did plug it in, I couldn’t believe that there was barely any gain with it. Maybe it sounded a bit better on top but that’s about it. I decided to leave it in, might as well.i assumed if the amp was bad it would work at all. Hard to imagine if it was dead it would let any sound pass.

As for Morels, yes. They sound a lot weaker than the stocks. Yes the stock ones are muddy and tired but they do their job for rear fill. Morels felt just weak. Hardly any bass and overall just weak sounding. Also I’d have to have the volume up all the way to get anything out of them.

I wanted to replace rear speakers to improve the bass a bit and a bit of clarity, which if not what I got.

I really didn’t want to rewire the whole car or install any amps or run rca cables. I surely didn’t want a subwoofer. I figured if the stock system is good enough now, surely a pair of good speakers will only make it better.

Maybe there is a snag somewhere. Maybe the amp is broken. I don’t know. I’m getting a bit too old for this.
I put back rear stock speakers back in and the left one isn’t sounding so well any more, rattles crackles. So now I can’t even revert to what I had before.

I think I’ll have to give it another shot and run good speaker cables from the 445 amp back to morels our and hope for the best. If that fails. I’ll have to get a 4 channel amp, wire it in the trunk and have rear speakers run off that, till I figure out what to do with the front door and dash speakers. Originally I didn’t want to mess with all that. Didn’t want to spend $400-500. This is a hobby car. I also have a Jag that needs all 4 speakers and a Lincoln that needs a good 4 channel amp. But since I opened a can of worms, there is no turning back. A bit frustrated to say the least.
As an A1, I do large conferences for big banks and number of political figures on daily basis. So bringing the car to an audio shop would be an added insult to the injury to me.

Dear old dad always told me to pay the pros to do the job right, maybe he was right.

I appreciate everyone’s help .


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Discussion Starter #23
I still think running the modern receiver, amp and speakers thru the existing wiring that previous owner performed the conversion presents many variables that are not necessary. You should revisit the instructions for adding the Alpine amp to the Alpine head unit. That amp was designed to be versatile and flexible with both line level and speaker inputs. Line level is the best combination. Also the amp is a good value and extremely small size which makes it universal. All that for $100 or so is a lot to like but not necessarily the best bang for the buck for a straight forward modern head unit to amp to speaker setup. As mentioned above the only difference in 45 watts and 90 watts is 3db more volume before the amp goes into clipping mode, with that said to increase volume 6db one needs 180 watts. I don't think power is the question here as much as "all speakers need to be in phase with each other". My experience is when someone has hacked into the factory wiring at least 1 or 2 speakers are wired out of phase with the others which equals a shallow un-focused sound and a major lack of bass response. That is why I recommended either all new wiring or let an experienced auto sound tech sort it all out.


I think you are correct on this. One of the speakers not wired correctly from previous install that was done before me. This would explain in theory why the rear Morels are out of wack.

So to recap. Let’s say I run new cables today to rear Morels. From 445 to rear speakers.
How do I run new cables to front doors and dash. Are the door and dash speakers running off the same source ? 2 pairs of cables for them all? Or is it a pair of cables for each speaker?

So I will run 2 cables for the rear. Can I run another set of cables from the amp to a place where front 4 speakers cables go from? If that behind the rear seat where the factory amps where ? Or is it under the factory fader?

Thanks.


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Discussion Starter #24
I was going off this post. Using black cable out back as a positive.

The diagram I found now shows otherwise.


This diagram shows that black cable out back is the ground. Not +.



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Discussion Starter #25
Also starting to wonder if the 445 is having a problem pushing 6 speakers in my car, all different ohms when it’s designed to do 4 speakers.


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What year is the car?

Is the amp a 4 channel amp?

Have you verified the amp has a clean power source and a good ground? (Is it getting full voltage?).

Have you verified the speakers are all in phase? (Do you know how to do this?)
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Duh up online, for 445 to function properly, all speakers must be 4 ohm.

So since morels are abs the rest are not, this explains why I wand never felt the difference when I installed the amp in the first place since all the factory speakers are not 4 ohm

Going home soon, gonna use the 445 to power the rear Morels and the rest will run off the deck by passing the amp.

If all goes nicely, that would the the cause of the problem.

Will report back.


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I don't know if this was covered but by no means do you want to run the new system thru the front/rear fader on the lower center console.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I don't know if this was covered but by no means do you want to run the new system thru the front/rear fader on the lower center console.


Yes. It was mentioned. Fader is by passed since it doesn’t work, by previous owner.


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That's one reason I asked about the year. "Fader" is a bit of a misnomer. It's a pre-amplifier, low level balance control and there's no way you can run audio level power through it. Those OEM systems had two two channel amps behind the rear seat back. Each amp handles one side, front and rear, not one amp front and the other rear. All the factory speaker wiring originates behind the rear seat, so if you're feeding speakers from an amp or head unit in the front, you have to either rewire everything, or feed all wires (4 channels) to the back to pick up the factory wiring. Lots of room for mistakes...
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I put stock speakers back in. After numerous tries, Morels just did not sound good.
I think the 445 amp is either bit doing what I want it to do or I don’t know.
Bottom line. A proper 4 channel amp is needed and I’m just not interested in doing all those cable runs and re doing the whole sound system.
Returning Morels tomorrow. Thank you all for help.

Anyone have a lair if rear speakers covers ? Blue or any color, I can repaint them if needed.


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Have you tried wiring the alpine speaker outputs from the radio directly to the morels? The built in power is plenty .

eliminate the 445 entirely
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Have you tried wiring the alpine speaker outputs from the radio directly to the morels? The built in power is plenty .

eliminate the 445 entirely


I did actually. I took the feed before amp and after with zero difference. This makes me wonder if the amp is doing anything at all. But I have no way of testing it.




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There's no way the radio could be driving the speakers through the amp. It's not like power steering, where you can still steer if the power assist fails. If the speakers are connected to the amp output then the amp is driving the speakers.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
There's no way the radio could be driving the speakers through the amp. It's not like power steering, where you can still steer if the power assist fails. If the speakers are connected to the amp output then the amp is driving the speakers.


In that case, the small amp is not doing it for me.



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Are you sure you're driving the amp at a high enough level?

You didn't answer all of my previous questions, so I can't really suggest anything. I can tell you, though, that your average car speaker should be able make your ears bleed on 45 watts.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I appreciate your help. To sum it all up, I’ll break it down.

I ran the cables to the rear Morel speakers from the 445A alpine mini amp. To me it was very weak sound. Then I ran the cables going to the 445 amp from the alpine deck. Just to see how it would sound. It sounded the same.

So now I don’t know if the amp is even doing anything.
The fader is by passed
The factory amps are by passed.


I installed the factory speakers back in and all is back to normal.

To do this right id have to get a 4 channel amp, install it out back. And run rca cables to it. Then run 4 or 6 pairs of speaker cables to factory locations. Replace all speakers. This much work is too much for me. Neither do I want to spend that much money on it.




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When you say "very weak" what are you comparing them to? Do you simply mean they are not loud compared to the fronts? If so, you may simply have a balance problem.

At low volumes your ear tends to hear mid range sounds better than bass and treble, so if the new speakers are not producing the same sound pressure they will sound like they are lacking low and high frequencies, but in fact they just aren't as loud as the ones you are comparing them with. (Refer to salesman's trick mentioned above.)
 

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Discussion Starter #40
When you say "very weak" what are you comparing them to? Do you simply mean they are not loud compared to the fronts? If so, you may simply have a balance problem.

At low volumes your ear tends to hear mid range sounds better than bass and treble, so if the new speakers are not producing the same sound pressure they will sound like they are lacking low and high frequencies, but in fact they just aren't as loud as the ones you are comparing them with. (Refer to salesman's trick mentioned above.)


I was comparing them to stock units. The weakness was very obvious.


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