Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
1993 190e 2.3L, 2002 GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer
Joined
·
386 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My '93 190e 2.3 has developed a strange issue where it completely lacks power, (0-40mph in like 10 seconds, very dangerous when trying to merge onto the interstate) and bangs gears when shifting at high rpms.

Now... this doesn't happen all the time, but when it acts up it stays this way for a day or two. Then the next day, it seems normal, has plenty of power and shifts smoothly.

I've done all routine maintenance, cap, rotor, wires, plugs. I've tested the transmission modulator, and it holds vacuum. I've tested and cleaned the vacuum solenoid switch on the firewall that goes to the tranny.

I'm lost, could one of my dual fuel pumps be on its way out? I can't figure this one out, I hate intermittent problems!
 

·
Registered
'87--190E 2.3-16v(being rebuilt), '99--C230 Kompressor
Joined
·
3,488 Posts
typically when one pump goes out it affects the other as #1 feeds #2..or so it was explained to me

the banging into gears sounds transmission based..when was the last time you flushed the trans fluid and replaced the filter? might want to check the filter again just to make sure something inside the trans didn't sheer off
 

·
Registered
1991 190e 2.6 automatic
Joined
·
760 Posts
check your coolant sensor for correct ohms at correct temps

also check your eha valve
 

·
Registered
1993 190e 2.3L, 2002 GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer
Joined
·
386 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
check your coolant sensor for correct ohms at correct temps

also check your eha valve
You may be on to something... It's been a REALLY hot summer and my temp gauge with AC has been 100c+

Well above the normal 80C
 

·
Registered
1993 190e 2.3L, 2002 GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer
Joined
·
386 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
ugh that wasn't it, everything ohmed OK

I believe this is vacuum related. Occasionally, my HVAC elec/vac module behind the glove box "sticks", so when I roll the temp wheel from cold to hot, nothing happens. So I have to whack the shit out of it with my shoe LOL. Then something clicks, and i'll have hot air blowing.

When I do this, the car starts to drive normally... MAYBE. More examples of this and testing is needed.


Does this ring any bells?
 

·
Registered
'87--190E 2.3-16v(being rebuilt), '99--C230 Kompressor
Joined
·
3,488 Posts
I don't believe that your hvac module..while being problematic..is directly related to your engine power issues. In theroy you can run the engine without it being hooked to the hvac. Now the CIS system is different. I would say start keeping a specific journal of when the power loss happens then look for a common denominator..ie temperature..heat..slope of ground etc
 

·
Registered
(2)1985, and (1)1986 190e 2.3
Joined
·
75 Posts
My '86 190 2.3 has done this from the day I bought it three years ago. Most of the time it runs very well, has good power, and shifts smoothly. But then, out of the blue, it starts to run like crap with no power on acceleration and banging into gears when it shifts. Then it will "snap out of it" and all will be fine again. It seems reasonable to me that the banging on shifts when the engine is having one of it's "moments" is due only to the lack of available vacuum to properly control the transmission, as when this problen develops and I have to put my foot to the floor to get anywhere, the vacuum gauge is pegged in the red. Most recently I have begun to wonder if it is something faulty in the system that controls ignition timing. Unfortunately, I do not know how this part of the engine control system works. I am told that the ignition timing can't be adjusted by turning the distributer, and while it has a vacuum hose and diaphram, I would expect that these components must be connected to some intermediate device which interfaces the mechanical side of the system with the electronic side. And, just to repeat myself, after three years of driving this car, I have found it to be a totally random event, winter or summer, fair or foul weather. I will be following this thread closely to see where it leads
 

·
Premium Member
W-1-2-3 Go!
Joined
·
16,161 Posts
Check the throttle linkage for intermittent throttle input. Also check the bowden cable for looseness. If the temp sensors check out okay, the occurrence at hot ambient temps may just be coincidental.
 

·
Registered
1993 190e 2.3L, 2002 GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer
Joined
·
386 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Exactly this. Anybody know how to test the ignition control module?

I see that it has a vacuum line that goes straight to manifold vacuum. Should this part hold vac? Start with cleaning all the contacts? It's pricey!!

My '86 190 2.3 has done this from the day I bought it three years ago. Most of the time it runs very well, has good power, and shifts smoothly. But then, out of the blue, it starts to run like crap with no power on acceleration and banging into gears when it shifts. Then it will "snap out of it" and all will be fine again. It seems reasonable to me that the banging on shifts when the engine is having one of it's "moments" is due only to the lack of available vacuum to properly control the transmission, as when this problen develops and I have to put my foot to the floor to get anywhere, the vacuum gauge is pegged in the red. Most recently I have begun to wonder if it is something faulty in the system that controls ignition timing. Unfortunately, I do not know how this part of the engine control system works. I am told that the ignition timing can't be adjusted by turning the distributer, and while it has a vacuum hose and diaphram, I would expect that these components must be connected to some intermediate device which interfaces the mechanical side of the system with the electronic side. And, just to repeat myself, after three years of driving this car, I have found it to be a totally random event, winter or summer, fair or foul weather. I will be following this thread closely to see where it leads
 

·
Registered
1991 190e 2.6 automatic
Joined
·
760 Posts
my car does this sometimes but not really as much as you describe

for me its like

on the best days, the car feels super responsive, and really like a 2.6

then other days, it just feels like such a lazy slouch.. for no reason

i notice this as well.. but for me its more like 15% difference not 30%+

and i would attribute this, just to old sensors and stuff.. i imagine when converting to EFI, and COP, this car would run optimal 99% of the time
 

·
Registered
1993 190e 2.3L, 2002 GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer
Joined
·
386 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Well, I'm going to try this.. As I said before, the car has been running hot, around 100-115ºC

According to this thread

When the EZL (ignition module) "sees" a temperature of more than 90C from coolant temp sensor, it begins to retard the timing, decreasing power and the amount of heat produced in the cylinder.

So... next course of action is to replace the Thermostat, flush and fill. I'll report back!
 

·
Registered
1993 190e 2.3L, 2002 GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer
Joined
·
386 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Nope, that wasn't it. Replaced tstat and housing, still gets really hot. Also noticed the aux fan doesn't turn on when my AC is on, this causes it to skyrocket in temp. I'll attempt to test the AC Aux fan/pressure switch on the condenser.

Single fan, 2.3 8V The fan WILL kick on when the engine fan engages at like 110ºC but I see no reason for it to do it 5 times in traffic when it's 75ºF outside, something is messed up.

Also, best way to bleed/burp air from the system? I've been squeezing hoses, revving to 2500, all suggestions i've read in pasts posts.
 

·
Registered
1993 190e 2.3L, 2002 GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer
Joined
·
386 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
When I short the aux fan/pressure switch on the condenser, I hear and feel the relay click inside the fuse box, but no fan.

So then I ran a heavy gauge wire from the battery to the Aux Fan Pre-Resistor and it kicks on LOW speed. Good, that's normal.

My question is, now why isn't it kicking on when I trip the switch and activate the relay?

When I short the High Temp sensor on the head, the fan kicks on, so the relay is working, correct? Attached wiring schematic.
 

·
Registered
1991 190e 2.6 automatic
Joined
·
760 Posts
Nope, that wasn't it. Replaced tstat and housing, still gets really hot. Also noticed the aux fan doesn't turn on when my AC is on, this causes it to skyrocket in temp. I'll attempt to test the AC Aux fan/pressure switch on the condenser.

Single fan, 2.3 8V The fan WILL kick on when the engine fan engages at like 110ºC but I see no reason for it to do it 5 times in traffic when it's 75ºF outside, something is messed up.

Also, best way to bleed/burp air from the system? I've been squeezing hoses, revving to 2500, all suggestions i've read in pasts posts.
if its anything like a 2.6 there is no hard way of bleeding.. just let it warm up with the cap off until it feels hot... and keep addin fluid until its good
 

·
Registered
1993 190e 2.3L, 2002 GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer
Joined
·
386 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Update - I was able to get the aux fan to turn on, but still have problems. Here's a convo from Peachparts

Just responded to a PM from a member who suggested Fuse 3. I'd love any other input!

Quote:
Thank you! The fuse was not blown, and I passed over it. But upon pulling it, I found that it was "stuck" almost as if it had melted in place. Once I cracked it out, and replaced it with another 16A i was able to short the wires that trigger the relay and the fan came on.

But now still... It won't kick on when the AC is on. Right now I have those wires connected and the fan runs on low whenever the car is running. I drove home in heavy traffic, and the temp stayed around 80ºC AC on or off.

So, could this mean a faulty pressure switch on the condenser? Could I be low on freon?

If I swap this switch out, will I lose all my freon? R134A has gone way up in price!
 

·
Moderator
190E, SLK350
Joined
·
67,194 Posts
I had a similar problem when my engine vent was directly connected to the vacuum system to the intake via the ICV.
After I installed a catch can, no more hesitation and loss of power when I hit the accelerator.

Clean your intake and see what you get and what happens.
 

·
Registered
1993 190e 2.3L, 2002 GMC Sierra Denali Quadrasteer
Joined
·
386 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Ah HA. Cracked solder joint on my OVP. Resoldered and good to go.




Still having Aux Fan issues, I need to get a set of AC Gauges to find out what my high side pressure is, needs to be 20 bar for that aux fan pressure switch to function.

Fall is here, so I'm not too worried with these cooler outside temps.
 

·
Registered
'87 190E 2.3 Manual, '81 500SEL 4whl SLS, '91 300SEL
Joined
·
1,757 Posts
Nope, that wasn't it. Replaced tstat and housing, still gets really hot. Also noticed the aux fan doesn't turn on when my AC is on, this causes it to skyrocket in temp. I'll attempt to test the AC Aux fan/pressure switch on the condenser.

Single fan, 2.3 8V The fan WILL kick on when the engine fan engages at like 110ºC but I see no reason for it to do it 5 times in traffic when it's 75ºF outside, something is messed up.

Also, best way to bleed/burp air from the system? I've been squeezing hoses, revving to 2500, all suggestions i've read in pasts posts.
FWIW, when I refill coolant I put the heat on full blast and remove the bolt at the front of the cylinder head, then I put in a half-gallon of distilled water and a half-gallon of coolant. At this point, I start the car and fill it until it's at the necessary level. At about this point I replace the bolt in the cylinder head, and drive the car around a little bit to make sure everything's cool.

No issues so far. Some people backfill the upper radiator hose and t-stat but it's not necessary as long as you don't have air trapped in the system. Also, yay, I was quoted!
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top