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1986 560SEC M113K, 1988 300E, 1991 500SL
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Fault finding a low reading coolant temperature gauge on 560SEC cluster. Does anyone have the resistance values for the single pin temperature sensor for the gauge? I installed a brand new one with part number 0055421017 and fear it is the wrong one or faulty. Cheers.
 

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1987 & 1991 C126
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Your part number 005 542 10 17 checks out fine...

Font Screenshot Technology Auto part Tool


Here are some numbers I found while testing coolant temp sensor on my SECs in 2017-18.

"
A couple of years ago I chased a high reading temperature gauge reading on my '91 500SEC Euro. I changed many parts due to various reasons and in the midst of all I measured the ohms readings of that sensor (x2) at both room temperature and with totally warmed up engines.

"Today, I finally got some time alone with two cold Mercedes & my wife's car to travel between them... to swap gauge temp sensors & do some measurements...

560SEC COLD - 500SEC COLD *measured at 65F ambient
654 Ohm - 872 Ohm

560SEC HOT - 500SEC HOT
050 Ohm - 040 Ohm
(85C Gauge) - (100C Gauge) Temp Gauge Readings

-----------------------------------------------
 

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1987 & 1991 C126
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Fault finding a low reading coolant temperature gauge on 560SEC cluster. Does anyone have the resistance values for the single pin temperature sensor for the gauge? I installed a brand new one with part number 0055421017 and fear it is the wrong one or faulty. Cheers.
While mine was a high temperature reading issue, it was finally solved finding an engine thermostat that was faulty. Two of them actually...

I removed the thermostat, put in in a saucepan of water, brought it to boil on our stovetop & measured the opening & fully open temps with an IR temp gun.
Most interesting.

M
 

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1986 560SEC M113K, 1988 300E, 1991 500SL
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok so I’m pretty sure the sensor is bad, today I checked with a temperature gun and at 26 degrees it is reading 1150 ohm and at 79 degrees 894 ohm.
 

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91 420SEL, 72 350SL, 99 S600, 05 F-350, 09 C300, 10 987, 12 GL450 , 87 560SEL ,05 SL600, tractors
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So you got completely different resistance values from 2 identical sensors?
Look at the test conditions - undefined "hot" temp and "ambient" for low. Only way to accurately read the resistance is to put the sensor in a water bath and read the temp from a thermometer. Ambient may mean the engine is not at that temp - depends on local heating and number of hours that the car has been sitting at that temp - "ambient" seldom holds at the same temp over a long time span. The guage accuracy is 3-5 degrees Celsius at best, so the resistance varience can also be in that range. There are not any moving or wear related parts in the sensor, so baring physical abuse or a breached seal, the sensor is good for a century or more. I have looked through the ETMs, engine and chassis manuals that I have and can not find a test procedure for either the gauge or sensor - anybody have any luck?
 

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Look at the test conditions - undefined "hot" temp and "ambient" for low. Only way to accurately read the resistance is to put the sensor in a water bath and read the temp from a thermometer. Ambient may mean the engine is not at that temp - depends on local heating and number of hours that the car has been sitting at that temp - "ambient" seldom holds at the same temp over a long time span. The guage accuracy is 3-5 degrees Celsius at best, so the resistance varience can also be in that range. There are not any moving or wear related parts in the sensor, so baring physical abuse or a breached seal, the sensor is good for a century or more. I have looked through the ETMs, engine and chassis manuals that I have and can not find a test procedure for either the gauge or sensor - anybody have any luck?
I couldn't find any definitive data either & your points are well taken of course..

Just as a point of reference, my 'ambient' temperature on both cars was roughly room temperature after sitting for possibly 15+ hours.

M
 

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'17 GLS450, '14 GLK250 "Grandpa's Roadster" Project Car, 350SDL (Sold)
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Well, one thing you could do is reverse engineer the sensor. Get a variable potentiometer (is that redundant?) and wire it up in place of the sensor. Adjust it until you get a particular reading on the gauge, then take it out of the circuit and measure the resistance. Repeat for other values.
 

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I couldn't find any definitive data either & your points are well taken of course..
Just as a point of reference, my 'ambient' temperature on both cars was roughly room temperature after sitting for possibly 15+ hours.
M
Think I will take one of my new sensors and run a resistance/temperature curve on it. My experience with Detroit iron and farm machinery is that most temperture sensors have the same curve and that fuel level sensors also have nearly identical curves. One reason suppliers can sell "universal" temp/fuel level gauges. Stay tuned!
 

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My experience with Detroit iron and farm machinery is that most temperture sensors have the same curve
Au contraire mon frère! I needed a temperature sensor for a Triumph motorcycle (water cooled). The factory part was something like $89. I looked at about 5 readily available sensors and none of them had a suitable temperature-resistance curve.
 

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Au contraire mon frère! I needed a temperature sensor for a Triumph motorcycle (water cooled). The factory part was something like $89. I looked at about 5 readily available sensors and none of them had a suitable temperature-resistance curve.
@John350 No experience with British bikes -only Honda. Does not surprise me that the Brits (Lucas?) decided to leave the pack and spec their own gauges. The reason that most of the temp sensors I have dealt with is that a 50 mA gauge is cheap, durable, and does not draw excessive current, so why not use them and just change the faceplate? Overly simple, but not simplistic. Rebuilt/modified a 1980 MGB once so I know why Lucas was then known as the Prince of Darkness. Going to my shop now to see how many new MB temp sensors I have squirelled away?
 

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91 420SEL, 72 350SL, 99 S600, 05 F-350, 09 C300, 10 987, 12 GL450 , 87 560SEL ,05 SL600, tractors
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@John350 Learn something new everyday - seems the W126 Bosch temp sensors (two pin) have differing curves
Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Plot
! Attached are the curves for two new sensors (280-130-014 and 280-130-006). (The lines are a fitted exponential curve for a generic thermistor) I also ran a couple of old VDO sensors from the W108/116 cars and the variations were even greater. Appears that VDO builds their temperature sensor circuits from the ground up instead of wiring together standard modules - does not surprise me. Lesson - don't apply your experiences beyond your experiences.
 

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1986 560SEC M113K, 1988 300E, 1991 500SL
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You can develop the exponential curve off 2 known points only. There is an equation I used to calibrate my M113K CTS and IAT sensors. I’ll dig it up and post it.
 

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(Off Topic)
You can develop the exponential curve off 2 known points only.
I don't see how that is possible. Three, maybe, but there are an infinite number of logarithmic curves you could plot through two points.
 

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(Off Topic)

I don't see how that is possible. Three, maybe, but there are an infinite number of logarithmic curves you could plot through two points.
@John350 @Brento Yes you would need three points to find an exponential function that would fit those points over a limited temperature range - you could also fit a parabolic function, polynomial function and many others. I used the NCT thermistor function which actually needs only a single parameter (B Value) to fit over the range of standard water/alcohol coolant temperatures. Since there were more than a single point and all points had some variance from a perfect NCT thermistor function curve, I used all points to find the fit with the least total squares deviation.
My point was that the two curves are different with different B values and thus requiring differnt logic circuits to produce the same voltage/temperature linear output to feed to the gauge (a linear device). The temperature sensors were not the same and should not be used interchangeably. My old Strewart-Warner experince where they used the same gauge and thermistor/module does not apply to Bosch of this period.
What I find most interesting is that Mercedes (and most manufactrurers of the period) used a linear interpolation of the thermistor gauge (wired thermistor directly to the gauge) to APPROXIMATE temperature. The approximation is further refined by placing the tick marks on the gauge at unequal intervals. The guage only indicates between 40 and 120 Celsius, so they selected a thermistor and approximated the curve with a straight line and variable tick marks over this range. Assuming they had the real temperature and indicated temperature intersect at about 120 degrees, tthen a temperature error of up to 5 degees Celsius is possible at the lower temps. The Bosch sensors had "125 degrees" imprinted on the side (maybe the B temperature?), or again assuming maybe this is where the sensors produce an accurate gauge reading?
Bottom line:
1. The dash gauge does not produce an accurate reading with any thermistor. When guage moves off 40 - engine is heating. When gauge is in the red line - there is a problem.
2. The readings are probably most accurate on the high end of the gauge.
3. Rely on the trend instead of the numbers - increasing temperature from previous experience may indicate a problem.
4. If you want to know your coolant temperature, use an IR meter on the thermostat dome. Meter about $20 and a must for any amateur mechanic.

Unlike the old days when the temp sensor used a Bourdon tube and you could rely on the readings.
 

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OK, that makes sense. You are assuming some properties about the curve related to thermistor properties.

Gumpy's points about accuracy are all good. Generally, gauges are designed to be most accurate at the most critical readings. OT: Aircraft that fly too fast fall apart and those that fly too slow fall out of the sky, so airspeed indicators are designed to read high at high speeds and low at low speeds That way the gauge gets to the critical speeds before the plane does.

I think the last car I had with a mechanical temp gauge was a 1963 SAAB. My plane (1946) has one, too, although it is oil temp, not water.
 

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OK, that makes sense. You are assuming some properties about the curve related to thermistor properties.

Gumpy's points about accuracy are all good. Generally, gauges are designed to be most accurate at the most critical readings. OT: Aircraft that fly too fast fall apart and those that fly too slow fall out of the sky, so airspeed indicators are designed to read high at high speeds and low at low speeds That way the gauge gets to the critical speeds before the plane does.

I think the last car I had with a mechanical temp gauge was a 1963 SAAB. My plane (1946) has one, too, although it is oil temp, not water.
Gee - I kinda thought my IAS gauges were accurate at all speeds (except when I forgot to remove my pitot tube cover :)) Would like to have my approach speeds and those indicated in the JEPS as well as others within the 2% window. Stall speeds were always a "suggestion" to be confirmed by feel. :ROFLMAO: Sorry for off topic - signing off
 

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I used this thermistor calculator. The Beta method only requires 2 points. The procedure is explained by Joe who is on MBWorld and his YouTube channel is Stumptown Benz.

@Brento Actually you only need a single point to calculate the curve between two temperature points using the Beta model. If you use a more general model that fits an exponential, you will need three temperature/resistance points. For all practical purposes when talking about water/alchohol curves, you only need to know the Beta value and you can reproduce the thermistor curve between two temperatures. Thermistor manufacturers usually sell the product by the Beta value and a temperature range (25 - 100 Centigrade) for automotive coolant temperature gauges.
 
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