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I think we are talking 2 separate scenarios here.
in a home with kids, you should take precautions to prevent accidents.
If you are on the street at 2 Am, perhaps you should have the gun locked and loaded, but the bigger question is WHY are you on the street at 2 AM ?
I do absolutely agree with your first statement. If some kids or other people are around my guns are locked in a room.

I disagree with your second statement. I do not see any reason NOT to be out on the street at anytime I want to.

Why should I?

Mike
 

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True
but common sense can prevent bad things from happening.
You are right, you should be able to be in Brooklyn at 2 Am and be safe. but the reality is, sometimes its better to stay in the comfort of your home.
 

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So glad I don't fly anymore...


The Transportation Security Administration said it found 2,212 guns in passengers’ carry-on bags in 2014, a 22 percent rise from 2013.

In a Friday blog post, the airport security agency said 2014 was the seventh year in a row that firearm discoveries had risen. Nearly twice as many firearms were found this year compared to 2010, and 83 percent of them were loaded.

At Boston Logan Airport, six guns were found last year, the same number as in 2013, said TSA spokesman Mike McCarthy. 120 guns were found at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport in Texas, more than anywhere else in the United States. The agency said most people say they simply forgot they had a gun.​


The TSA Blog: TSA 2014 Year in Review
 

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I do not think so. Nobody here to shoot me. Both people around do know that the guns are loaded and know how to handle this.

The two Irish Wulfhounds will alarm me about any intruders before they reach the house.

Nobody sneaks into my place. And nobody will shoot me with my own guns by surprise.

Basically you are right with having no round in the chamber. But like any tool, it is about how you tread it. Here at my place I am fine with that, because we usually do not have any visitors.

In other situations I would agree with you but - well - not here.

Enjoy!

Mike
Guns are the most used method for suicide
Or inter-family homicide, over 1/2 of all

Famous last words: I'm prepared lol
Point is guns are dangerous and should be treated as such
Very seldom do you get a 'second chance'
 

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Yes. Fear should be removed from life in general by an authority greater than any community. Restrictive gun laws will add security so that people deemed unworthy of the responsibility can be prevented from owning them. Just like incapable people who own, say a C63, and don't have the capability to use it accordingly, should have the dangerous vehicle forcibly removed from their use.
 

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Yes. Fear should be removed from life in general by an authority greater than any community. Restrictive gun laws will add security so that people deemed unworthy of the responsibility can be prevented from owning them. Just like incapable people who own, say a C63, and don't have the capability to use it accordingly, should have the dangerous vehicle forcibly removed from their use.
wtf???
lol

The mentally ill should be infirmed

I use it within my limits AND the limits of safety on public roads
Race car driver and car control expert? no
Safe? No accidents in over 35 years and close to 800k miles

It's a good thing an asshole like you has no say in my life or anyone elses
Perhaps you should have none in your own too? As in involuntary confinement lol
All Americans are stupid and should be shot, correct?
 

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Yes. Fear should be removed from life in general by an authority greater than any community. Restrictive gun laws will add security so that people deemed unworthy of the responsibility can be prevented from owning them. Just like incapable people who own, say a C63, and don't have the capability to use it accordingly, should have the dangerous vehicle forcibly removed from their use.

 

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The Thinking Gunfighter: THE MYTHS OF THE ISRAELI METHOD OF CARRY, or why carrying chamber empty isn?t so bad.

Good primer on Israeli method for anyone interested
The guys referenced heavily influenced the book I previously posted
It was written by applegate http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Applegate
Rex Applegate (June 21, 1914 – July 14, 1998) was an American military officer who worked for the Office of Strategic Services, where he trained Allied special forces personnel in close-quarters combat during World War II. He held the rank of colonel.

In 1941 Applegate was developing armed and unarmed close quarter combat courses for the US Army when he was recruited by Wild Bill Donovan for the OSS, specifically to build and run what was called "The School for Spies and Assassins", the location of which is now Camp David. Donovan had Applegate learn all that he could about armed and unarmed fighting from William E. Fairbairn to form a brutal and effective system. He was the close-combat coordinator for all clandestine missions and this role brought him into contact with other fighters and martial artists of the time period such as a Finnish soldier who killed 21 Russians with a knife and the founder of the British SAS: David Stirling.


In 1943 he wrote Kill or Get Killed, which is still considered a classic manual of Western-style hand-to-hand combat. The updated 1976 edition of Kill or Get Killed was published by the US Marine Corps as Fleet Marine Force Reference Publication 12-80. From the foreword:

"Fleet Marine Force Reference Publication (FMFRP) 12-80, Kill or Get Killed, is published to ensure the retention and dissemination of useful information which is not intended to become doctrine or to be published in Fleet Marine Force manuals""
and

"This reference publication was written in 1976 by Lieutenant Colonel Rex Applegate, USA (Ret), with the help of the Combat Section, Military Intelligence Training Center, Camp Ritchie, Maryland. At last there is one volume which speaks to the subjects of unarmed combat (offensive and defensive), combat use of weapons, disarming the enemy, handling of prisoners, the handle of mob/crowd disobedience, the use of chemicals in such situations, and how to establish a professional riot control unit"


We’ve all heard the warnings. If you don’t have a round in the chamber you might as well carry a rock! A gun without a round in the chamber is just a hammer! Anyone who carries a gun with the chamber empty must be afraid of their gun! Not carrying with a round chambered means you must not have any training! Well, my friends, as with so many of the things we hear in the gun world the myth sometimes overpowers the reality.

Let’s start with a clarification. Although often referred to as the Israeli Method or the Israeli Technique, carrying chamber empty (C3) is not restricted to the Israelis, nor did they develop it. It is gotten that label because of the fact that the Israelis popularized it as a method of carry and developed an entire method of presentation around empty-chamber carry. And their reasons for doing so are quite pertinent: a method of carry that allows safe carry with quick response time for (at that time) a largely untrained population with a diverse variety of firearms. I use the term as one that is easily recognizable, even if not technically correct. I prefer referring to it as “Condition 3”, or C3 for short. The history of C3 goes back to the early days of the autoloader, and is still being written today.


The most important development in C3 history to me was the adoption of that method of carry by the members of the Shanghai Police under W.E. Fairbairn. As the result of a number of incidents, Fairbairn (along with Eric Sykes) began to develop a new way to bring Shanghai P.D. officers to a high level of expertise with their handguns given the limited amount of training time and resources available to them. This training included, in part, carrying the gun with an empty chamber and then chambering a round as part of the draw stroke. This proved to be quite successful and when World War II broke out Fairbairn and Sykes were tasked with training commando units in close combat, including pistol use. They chose the chamber-empty target-focused method that had worked so well for them at Shanghai P.D., and for many of the same reasons. C3 allowed a person to safely carry and adequately use a firearm with a very limited amount of training. Fairbairn also wrote several books which also served to popularize the chamber empty carry method.
 

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I use it within my limits AND the limits of safety on public roads
Race car driver and car control expert? no
Safe? No accidents in over 35 years and close to 800k miles

Congrats. Proof you bought a car well above your driving capability since you cannot come close to exploring its limits, hence what it was designed for.

It's a good thing an asshole like you has no say in my life or anyone elses
Perhaps you should have none in your own too? As in involuntary confinement

It is exactly people like you who want a say in the life of gun owners. A car is statistically more dangerous than a gun and you just proved you drive something you cannot handle.
 

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Congrats. Proof you bought a car well above your driving capability since you cannot come close to exploring its limits, hence what it was designed for.

It is exactly people like you who want a say in the life of gun owners. A car is statistically more dangerous than a gun and you just proved you drive something you cannot handle.
The car can't be used to its limits on public roads
Only a moron with disregard for the lives of others would do so
I do use it to 8/10ths and enjoy the precision and power
If I could not handle M cars, Porsches etc would I have not wrecked? Lol
Fn boy racer it is obvious that I am a better driver than you based on your wreckless behaviour and wanton disregard for others
You ever had training? Not lap day be but real training on street driving by a pro?
Americans are stupid and should be shot correct?

NRA lifetime member
CCW permit for 25 years
Multiple training schools
M1a match
Benelli super 90 m1 tactical
Les Baer gov model
HK P7m8
walther pps

So yes when it comes to firearms I want a say
I am a citizen and by your logic only gun owners should have a say, since I own some double qualified
 

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All the gov is gonna take your gun bs is nra, gun lobby and mfg hype to induce sales
And it works to the tune of 20 mil per year based on background checks
Some guys have 50 or more guns, imo wacky, but my 5 are wacky to some
300,000,000 mil in the US

There is no gun shortage and there never will be

Don't get me wrong
I don't care how many are sold as long as access is controlled
No criminals, mentally impaired, druggies, etc
But crying wolf over confiscation is bs
 

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Guns are the most used method for suicide
Or inter-family homicide, over 1/2 of all

Famous last words: I'm prepared lol
Point is guns are dangerous and should be treated as such
Very seldom do you get a 'second chance'
I do not think that I will shoot my 83 old mom, and I am quite sure she do not want to shoot me.

Actually it is like this:

Say a snake rattles inside our garden. The property is fenced and there is a second fence, fencing the garden. We even put 'Snake Away' around it. But some of them snakes are slow learners.

So I grab the Mossberg and shoot the snake. I reload after the first shot, because I might need to shoot again. Them snakes are quite big.

Now I have a round in the chamber. Besides shooting the round somewhere in the ground, I can not really unload it.

I can just reload it whatever times it takes and pick up all of them from the floor to reload the rifle, not having a round in the chamber now.

Same with the 30/30.

Same with the revolvers. Should I leave one chamber empty by your advice?

Does it make a difference?

Clueless!

Mike
 

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Don't take this personally
a crazy person doesn't know they are crazy
People seldom plan these acts

I do not care how you handle weapons as long as I am not in your field of fire

My buddy was a lawyer in AK who represented Ruger in a case
A guy was hunting with the old style blackhawk 44 mag tripped/fell, gun discharged and fillet his leg
Had to be amputated and he sued

imho leaving 3 loaded guns laying around is a recipe for disaster
As I said you are 2000 miles away so I have no dog in this fight just expressing my opinion
Clueless as it may be lol
Peace

I do not think that I will shoot my 83 old mom, and I am quite sure she do not want to shoot me.

Actually it is like this:

Say a snake rattles inside our garden. The property is fenced and there is a second fence, fencing the garden. We even put 'Snake Away' around it. But some of them snakes are slow learners.

So I grab the Mossberg and shoot the snake. I reload after the first shot, because I might need to shoot again. Them snakes are quite big.

Now I have a round in the chamber. Besides shooting the round somewhere in the ground, I can not really unload it.

I can just reload it whatever times it takes and pick up all of them from the floor to reload the rifle, not having a round in the chamber now.

Same with the 30/30.

Same with the revolvers. Should I leave one chamber empty by your advice?

Doe it make a difference?

Clueless!

Mike
 

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As said before I am still sort of new to guns at age of 52. So clueless is quite correct. I am not taking this personally, in the opposite I need to know.

So I went to the local to town gun shop 5 years ago to let them explain to me the working and function of each of the guns I inherited from my Stepfather. As said before they are tools for me like a chain saw or a tractor. I am neither a tractor fan nor a gun nut. But I do not want to miss either.

I am willing to change my behavior if you can give me a good reason for it.

Should I store them completely unloaded? If so, why?

Both rifles I do use (Mossberg 500/Winchester 30/30) have a security mechanism preventing me to shoot if engaged. Do I need to assume that them still can go off if dropped or so?

Please bear with me. I don't want to provoke you at all, I really want to know if I do something wrong here.

You can assume that there are no children and or other people around this place.

In case of the two revolvers I do not see how to not have a bullet in a chamber. The two .25 rifles, there I am able to do so, removing the magazine and unload the round in the chamber. But with the shot gun and the 30/30 I do not see any way to do so, except unloading all rounds on the floor, picking them up and reloading again.

So, my question is:

Why is it in your opinion so important to NOT having a round in the chamber?

Besides handling them guns careful anyways I hope the chances of accidently triggering is prevented by the security lock. Am I wrong here?

As lifetime NRA member you may have forgotten more about guns as I know at all. Honestly. But I am living on a farm now and need to use the tools available and needed but NEW to me.

I am just a CodeMonkey. I program Computer for a living. But since a couple of years I have to take care of the ranch. Mom can't handle this anymore by herself. She is 82(83?) now.

As of my personal experience so far, the chainsaw and the tractor where the most dangerous items I had to conquer. The guns? Easy! But I do not use them as often as the other farm equipment.

Sure - guns are dangerous. But a 60 year old wood chipper is dangerous too. It's quite impressive, and I am very careful with it. There are a lot of tools in this world being dangerous and able to hurt or kill you. Same with them guns. You always need to respect the tools you are using.

But why is it so important not to have a round in the chamber?

Curious!

Mike
 

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The best thing you can do imho is find a good nra sanctioned instructor
As far as the condition (as in rnd in chamber) you keep your weapons that is up to you

a pump can be racked quickly so a round in the tube imo is not required
Plus the sound is scary

In AK I carried a pump staggered with buckshot and slugs
For a mix of snake and small game like fox this might be an option

I assume the 30/30 is a lever action like a model 94?
If so it can be racked fast and they make a snake shot for it iirc

I have a good deal of experience with guns and electricty and they both still scare me lol

I assume you know the rules, observing any one will save you
Assume every gun is loaded even if you know it is unloaded
Never point it at anything you don't want to destroy
Never put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to fire
Be sure of your target and what is behind it

Experienced people have had accidental discharges or ad's
A gun with one in the tube is always a risk
Especially newer ones like glocks with passive safties
Pulling out of a holster
Just grasping it awkwardly
It happens all the time
Even cops
It's just so damn final
I never let a loaded gun out of my control if others have access, even inadvertent

You sound reasonable and prudent
Take a class

Old bideo so you may have seen it
See if you can spot the primary mistake
He made many


As said before I am still sort of new to guns at age of 52. So clueless is quite correct. I am not taking this personally, in the opposite I need to know.

So I went to the local to town gun shop 5 years ago to let them explain to me the working and function of each of the guns I inherited from my Stepfather. As said before they are tools for me like a chain saw or a tractor. I am neither a tractor fan nor a gun nut. But I do not want to miss either.

I am willing to change my behavior if you can give me a good reason for it.

Should I store them completely unloaded? If so, why?

Both rifles I do use (Mossberg 500/Winchester 30/30) have a security mechanism preventing me to shoot if engaged. Do I need to assume that them still can go off if dropped or so?

Please bear with me. I don't want to provoke you at all, I really want to know if I do something wrong here.

You can assume that there are no children and or other people around this place.

In case of the two revolvers I do not see how to not have a bullet in a chamber. The two .25 rifles, there I am able to do so, removing the magazine and unload the round in the chamber. But with the shot gun and the 30/30 I do not see any way to do so, except unloading all rounds on the floor, picking them up and reloading again.

So, my question is:

Why is it in your opinion so important to NOT having a round in the chamber?

Besides handling them guns careful anyways I hope the chances of accidently triggering is prevented by the security lock. Am I wrong here?

As lifetime NRA member you may have forgotten more about guns as I know at all. Honestly. But I am living on a farm now and need to use the tools available and needed but NEW to me.

I am just a CodeMonkey. I program Computer for a living. But since a couple of years I have to take care of the ranch. Mom can't handle this anymore by herself. She is 82(83?) now.

As of my personal experience so far, the chainsaw and the tractor where the most dangerous items I had to conquer. The guns? Easy! But I do not use them as often as the other farm equipment.

Sure - guns are dangerous. But a 60 year old wood chipper is dangerous too. It's quite impressive, and I am very careful with it. There are a lot of tools in this world being dangerous and able to hurt or kill you. Same with them guns. You always need to respect the tools you are using.

But why is it so important not to have a round in the chamber?

Curious!

Mike
 

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my opinion
not having a round chambered prevents accidents.
 

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my opinion
not having a round chambered prevents accidents.
You got that right
This poor kid most likely would not have chambered a round

It would save 1000's of ad's and many lives
How many self defense situations would it have any effect on the outcome?
If I hear something at night and decide to investigate after the dogs go boogaloo
Fumbling in the dark I might have an ad
But racking a round before proceeding won't cost but a second
And will be a conscious action

I carry Israeli, that is my choice and am willing to sacrifice the second of time for the greatly increased safety that may save me a lifetime of agony
Not to mention some tactical advantages
 

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@Ingenieur,

thank you for your response. Some good points there for me.

...Plus the sound is scary

The sound does not scare them snakes. They do not listen anyways. Told you. Slow learners.

Staggering is a good idea. Never thought about. Makes sense.

You assume right with the lever action 30/30. This one looks quite old to me. Gun Shop cleaned it and said I was good to use it. It is quite short for a rifle. Used on Horses? Easier to draw when on a horse? Funny thing. If you shoot it you really need to hold it. The shot gun is way easier on me.

... Assume every gun loaded even if you know it is unloaded
... Never point it at anything you don't want to destroy
... Never put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to fire
... Be sure of your target and what is behind it

I do follow all these rules already. The last one is very important. Especially with the 30/30. That one is quite amazing in penetrating stuff.

I do understand @oefvet124lover's point that not having a round in the chamber is more secure. Not in there, can't happen.

That is a fact. Since I shoot maybe 3-5 snakes a year, the time to unload the rifle and reload it again for storage without having one in the tube does not really matter.

I just feel somehow stupid - emptying the magazine by loading and picking them up from the floor and then reload. Never saw stuff like that in "Paint your wagon" or other good movies about going west.

But I understand the reasoning. Better save than sorry.

Enjoy!

Mike
 
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