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SEC AMG Widebody v2.0... Or should I say v6.0?
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Both wrong!!
the CIS kit for the Gen2 KE-Jet M117 is aprox US $1,606-00 + postage
That gives you a base tune for your particular engine (based on data provided to Mike) to have total control over the fuel mapping.
The ECU is capable & ready for other add-on functions past that point.
Mike is developing his own custom Ignition system specific to the M117 that will do away with the EZL and also if desired the coil and distributor and move to most likely 4 coils with wasted spark on the exhaust stroke.
He comes from a race and tuning background and ex MB employee working in their AMG division before moving on to his own business dedicated to performance options for the older Mercs which is now his passion for both track and street
He owns a rare original and documented Gen2 RHD AMG 32V 6ltre widebody that was imported from Japan. He has owned that coupe for a number of years and is all over the W126 M117 engine in both 16V and 32V so he understands our engines completely.
Stuttgart-Classics.com Classic Performance cars and rally replica's
Plus also he owns an spread of other mercs including a customised G-wagon
Mike knew from way back the M117 was a tough engine and when he started exploring the Bosch K & KE-Jet system in more detail with thousands of hrs of R&D he worked out it is actually a very good fueling system with superb atomisation but basic 80's limited technology to control the Fueling. Using modern technology to take control of the FD has brought this system into today's world in simple language whilst keeping the engine looking completely stock.
Providing your fuel system is in good order i will back this system will out-perform an EFI kit if two identical engines could be tested back to back.
Plus all the hard R&D base tuning work has been done and it is only a matter of tweeking it if you add more custom engine mods like cams etc
I might sound like i am plugging Mike but he reminds me a lot like Jono with his vast performance and fabrication knowledge and IT design skills - the difference is Mike moved away from servicing Mercs to be totally dedicated to custom performance of older Mercs which is totally his passion and business model now.
We are lucky these guys like Mike and Hendrik in Estonia are around pushing the boundries and offering modern solutions we can buy off the shelf.
When Mike gets a chance he is going to produce his own Billet M117 cams that are somewhere between the ECE cams and the AMG solid 50:1 cams but remaining roller cams and retaining smooth idle and good usable torque
He feels the Feind cams are a bit lumpy for most street owners taste and already knows the cam profile he wants to work with, so that is going to be another plus for us.
the CIS kit for the Gen2 KE-Jet M117 is aprox US $1,606-00 + postage
That gives you a base tune for your particular engine (based on data provided to Mike) to have total control over the fuel mapping.
The ECU is capable & ready for other add-on functions past that point.
Mike is developing his own custom Ignition system specific to the M117 that will do away with the EZL and also if desired the coil and distributor and move to most likely 4 coils with wasted spark on the exhaust stroke.
He comes from a race and tuning background and ex MB employee working in their AMG division before moving on to his own business dedicated to performance options for the older Mercs which is now his passion for both track and street
He owns a rare original and documented Gen2 RHD AMG 32V 6ltre widebody that was imported from Japan. He has owned that coupe for a number of years and is all over the W126 M117 engine in both 16V and 32V so he understands our engines completely.
Stuttgart-Classics.com Classic Performance cars and rally replica's
Plus also he owns an spread of other mercs including a customised G-wagon
Mike knew from way back the M117 was a tough engine and when he started exploring the Bosch K & KE-Jet system in more detail with thousands of hrs of R&D he worked out it is actually a very good fueling system with superb atomisation but basic 80's limited technology to control the Fueling. Using modern technology to take control of the FD has brought this system into today's world in simple language whilst keeping the engine looking completely stock.
Providing your fuel system is in good order i will back this system will out-perform an EFI kit if two identical engines could be tested back to back.
Plus all the hard R&D base tuning work has been done and it is only a matter of tweeking it if you add more custom engine mods like cams etc
I might sound like i am plugging Mike but he reminds me a lot like Jono with his vast performance and fabrication knowledge and IT design skills - the difference is Mike moved away from servicing Mercs to be totally dedicated to custom performance of older Mercs which is totally his passion and business model now.
We are lucky these guys like Mike and Hendrik in Estonia are around pushing the boundries and offering modern solutions we can buy off the shelf.
When Mike gets a chance he is going to produce his own Billet M117 cams that are somewhere between the ECE cams and the AMG solid 50:1 cams but remaining roller cams and retaining smooth idle and good usable torque
He feels the Feind cams are a bit lumpy for most street owners taste and already knows the cam profile he wants to work with, so that is going to be another plus for us.
This car with a 5.4 with the CIS-E kit would be perfect.
I'm just thinking about some of the Gen1's that had 6.0 32V's - how did they get by with fuel/engine management? Did they make a Gen1 specific intake/application when they transplanted 6.0's into Gen1 cars (such as that Cincinnati black/palomino '84 SEC)? Or did they convert Gen1 to CIS-E, including wiring?
I'm just thinking about some of the Gen1's that had 6.0 32V's - how did they get by with fuel/engine management? Did they make a Gen1 specific intake/application when they transplanted 6.0's into Gen1 cars (such as that Cincinnati black/palomino '84 SEC)? Or did they convert Gen1 to CIS-E, including wiring?
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Good to know, Kim, I was trying to remember the price and got confused with the other system (Elbe) our Nordic friend is installing in his WB. $1,600 is a very attractive price.
You keep mentioning that it leaves the engine stock but I don't seem to recall any engine pics with a fully functional system, but that may be my diminished memory at work. :nerd
Do you have any? I'd love to see it.
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3,024 Posts
My quibble with the Kim and Frankens-CIS (and any aftermarket ECU) is the....omission of the many hours you may need to spend (many on a dyno) tuning the car to your exact motor's mods. The implication seems to be that you bolt it on and drive off.
I would really like to see before and after power/torque/emissions/economy numbers of a nicely running M117 vs. the supplied map that comes with FCIS. That should tell us what the average customer can expect without forking over lots of time and money to dial it the MicroSquirt in. My suspicion is that $1600 for this (or $2500 for the Elbee kit) is just the tip of the iceberg.
I would really like to see before and after power/torque/emissions/economy numbers of a nicely running M117 vs. the supplied map that comes with FCIS. That should tell us what the average customer can expect without forking over lots of time and money to dial it the MicroSquirt in. My suspicion is that $1600 for this (or $2500 for the Elbee kit) is just the tip of the iceberg.
^^^^^
This... While I'm sure the R&D that went into the system is top notch, I'll pass on paying to be the guinea pig. I'm realistic about my time and my limitations
Your call Mark - just leave it as-is once back on the road. Drive & enjoy it
As to CIS i talk about it runs with the EFI Analytics - TunerStudio Software
EFI Analytics TunerStudio | tunerstudio.com
Have a read of the link page - might give you a better understanding of its capabilities and no you are wrong guys it does not need many further hours and $'s on a dyno.
I think it best i just bow out of your thread Mark and let you get on with the rebuild updates
If interested later - best you contact Mike direct if your understanding of this product is limited and you are wild guessing assumptions - it is just adding much more capability to an already very good Bosch fuel Injection system to make it better- simple as that
As to CIS i talk about it runs with the EFI Analytics - TunerStudio Software
EFI Analytics TunerStudio | tunerstudio.com
Have a read of the link page - might give you a better understanding of its capabilities and no you are wrong guys it does not need many further hours and $'s on a dyno.
I think it best i just bow out of your thread Mark and let you get on with the rebuild updates
If interested later - best you contact Mike direct if your understanding of this product is limited and you are wild guessing assumptions - it is just adding much more capability to an already very good Bosch fuel Injection system to make it better- simple as that
Kim,
I love the work Mark and Dkubus is doing.
My pet peeve with the KE / K jet systems is not the fueling as such. Hell with the different available fuel distributors, the mixture screw, the adjustable EHA valve and the correct pressure testing procedure, even in stock form there is decent tune-ability if one has the patience and a thorough understanding of the system.
What bothers me is the air part of the big bang equation. The path that the air follows from air cleaner to cylinder is just crazy, especially with that big plate in the way. Would you or anyone go about designing something like that with a performance oriented mindset?
When i stated the 2400EUR price, i knew it was for the ELBE kit and assumed the FrankenCIS kit would be cheaper. But at $1600 that in my opinion is still pretty steep considering you're getting ZERO ignition control. You yourself picked up that Heltech ECU / FI M117 that's running a stock intake manifold. Do you really think the same engine with the K / KE Jet back on with the FrankenCIS will produce more power?
I agree with Mark and Luke, from a marketing standpoint Dkubus and Fiend for that matter really should do some back to back tests on any one engine to show us potential customers that its worth the effort.
Mark,
Sorry for carrying on the thread diversion, but it was an interesting conversation.
Just want to add, thank you for saving another diamond in the rough AMG! Hope this one turns out as great as the last one did. Very impressive job on that car.
Good luck with it.
I love the work Mark and Dkubus is doing.
My pet peeve with the KE / K jet systems is not the fueling as such. Hell with the different available fuel distributors, the mixture screw, the adjustable EHA valve and the correct pressure testing procedure, even in stock form there is decent tune-ability if one has the patience and a thorough understanding of the system.
What bothers me is the air part of the big bang equation. The path that the air follows from air cleaner to cylinder is just crazy, especially with that big plate in the way. Would you or anyone go about designing something like that with a performance oriented mindset?
When i stated the 2400EUR price, i knew it was for the ELBE kit and assumed the FrankenCIS kit would be cheaper. But at $1600 that in my opinion is still pretty steep considering you're getting ZERO ignition control. You yourself picked up that Heltech ECU / FI M117 that's running a stock intake manifold. Do you really think the same engine with the K / KE Jet back on with the FrankenCIS will produce more power?
I agree with Mark and Luke, from a marketing standpoint Dkubus and Fiend for that matter really should do some back to back tests on any one engine to show us potential customers that its worth the effort.
Mark,
Sorry for carrying on the thread diversion, but it was an interesting conversation.
Just want to add, thank you for saving another diamond in the rough AMG! Hope this one turns out as great as the last one did. Very impressive job on that car.
Good luck with it.
No worries. The best part of the forum is the exchange of information like this. While I'd like to squeeze better performance out of the motor, sometimes "the juice isn't worth the squeeze".
You say that all the time..... Funny.....
Like Selling a set of WB pentas? would that be too stupid?
Must admit I have been thinking about it.
well, if you're going to build a WB, it wouldn't be such a good idea (unless you have some 10/12 OZs laying around...)
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"S" is intended for like 91 Octane, US? Is that right? It advances the spark, correct?
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