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Registered
2001 S600
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13 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

So I sent my S600 out to get a roll cage installed and engine swap performed. The shop pulled the engine but now we're considering running the V12. Unfortunately, now that I've changed shops, we've learned that the V12 harnesses (and pretty much all wiring within the car) was cut and pulled :(

I KNOW!

At any rate . . .that aside, does anyone know what harnesses will be REQUIRED to get the engine started and running? We're not worried about ALL CANBUS functions, just ignition and engine run.

Any ideas?

I have WIS/ARSA pulled up and so does my new mechanic (team mate in Drift Taxi).

Thank you so much for your help, all!



Gratuitous Pic

2612499


www.TheDriftTaxi.com
 

W220 Moderator
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LOL, you will not even get it to start without CAN Bus !!

I suggest you take time to learn how these Cars work ;)
 

Registered
2001 S600
Joined
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
LOL, you will not even get it to start without CAN Bus !!

I suggest you take time to learn how these Cars work ;)
That's not very helpful, but okay. Let's roll with that.

My initial question was probably phrased poorly. I can live with the entire loop needing to be completed before the car will run, but are there a minimum number of modules that need to be present before the engine will run?
 

Registered
2001 S600
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13 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Also, that's what I'm trying to do. Is learn how these cars work. Having some forum snob talk down to me isn't my idea of community. I'm not an expert on this platform and I probably never will be. If you're down to help me learn, cool. If not, kindly step aside and let those who do care to help, help.
 

W220 Moderator
Joined
6,040 Posts
Take it easy, especially on Forum please !! If you want to rant at me and start a row do it via pm !!
Those who know me will tell you I say it how I see it.

The answer I gave you was brief because I was busy all day and have just finished, but going out shortly.
The answer I gave was also correct, you need the CAN Buses retained.

I know exactly what you are asking and the answer is you need to keep at least everything which communicates with the Powertrain CAN Bus, or you will get an Engine that is in limp mode, and it will not start or crank without Powertrain CAN Bus. Even your Instruments, Lights Seats Doors etc etc etc communicate via CAN Bus the W220 is a rolling Computer Network, again I have posted info in our stickies.

We also need a lot more info, like are you going to use the Auto Trans ? ABC Suspension ? ESP and ABS can be disabled and removed but that will likely affect other systems, hence the need to have SDS with Developer, to tweak a whole bunch of version codings that the SLK didn't need tweaking because it's a road Car.

ABS / ESP is no use whatsoever on a drift Car as I'm sure you are aware. It will take some going to remove just that one item without causing all kinds of grief.

Now, if you read my SLK conversion thread you might realise that I am one of the few "private" folks who has actually got a V8 M113 Engine to integrate properly with all the other Modules on an R170 Road Car ;)

There are only 1 or 2 major MB Tuning Companies who have done that conversion, and they won't discuss what or how they do these things, they just want to take 1000's 拢拢拢 off you :(

The V12 ECU has an even more complex architecture and electronics than the Old Skool R170 so will require a helluva lot more work.

So to sum up now, you might want to look on here for my SLK's Thread especially post #222 here:-


That post is discussing how I have succeeded in getting a V6 SLK ECU to start and run a V8 on V8 Mapping, plus integrate with all it's other systems and then perhaps you'll realise that this "Forum Snob" actually knows what he is talking about regarding Motor, Transmission and Diff swaps on MB's.

I will step aside now, and look forward to reading and seeing your car up and running and drifting, and I do mean that most sincerely !!
 

Registered
2001 S600
Joined
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I get that and I appreciate your more laid out response, that IS helpful. I pressed into you like that because I asked a question and your immediate and initial response was to say "LOL, learn more about your car", paraphrasing of course.

I understand busy, I'm a 35 year old DevOps Engineer who also owns Drift Taxi (a motorsports entertainment company). On top of trying to coordinate the research and development of my OWN car, I'm also trying my damnedest to make sure my drivers (3 drivers plus myself) have everything they need to round out their 2019 season and begin their 2020 season. It's why my car has yet to be finished! I simply don't have time for it.

I'd rather see my drivers happy, drifting, getting deals and making money. I can worry about my own seat time later.

That out of the way, let's clean slate and move forward.

Thank you for that insight, I understand completely about companies wanting to take you for a ride, monetarily, before giving you any insight as to how to build your vehicle.

Quite honestly, we're only considering the V12 as it would be fantastic publicity but we're also not looking for a major headache in getting things going. We'd most likely start out with the automatic transmission (as that's what was used previously when Drift Taxi was first getting off the ground) but we'd eventually switch to a manual.

All of that said, we're also not ruling out the simplicity (though not necessarily any cost savings) of just sticking an LS1 in there and calling it a day.
 

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If you鈥檙e just gonna LS swap it , do it now rather than later . Trying to piece oem electronics back together , just to later just swap makes no sense

Yes you could re splice everything . Question is how many dozens of hours do you have to do that and chase down any errors ?


Honestly with the price of these cars it makes more sense to just buy another car complete for $3000 and sell this one as a parts car for $1000. Or part this car out . Selling just the 5-10 most common used parts in eBay will get you $3000 easy . Much easier to sell 10 parts on eBay then fix this car
 

Registered
2001 S600
Joined
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
If you鈥檙e just gonna LS swap it , do it now rather than later . Trying to piece oem electronics back together , just to later just swap makes no sense

Yes you could re splice everything . Question is how many dozens of hours do you have to do that and chase down any errors ?


Honestly with the price of these cars it makes more sense to just buy another car complete for $3000 and sell this one as a parts car for $1000. Or part this car out . Selling just the 5-10 most common used parts in eBay will get you $3000 easy . Much easier to sell 10 parts on eBay then fix this car

I can see that, the more I've considered it the more it makes sense to run an LS. We have the OEM V12 engine, transmission and modules but the person removing the engine for me (while the cage was being put in) cut the harnesses.

I spoke with a rep from MaxxECU (Brett Willett, who knows his stuff) and he said the hardest part would be building a harness from scratch but it IS possible to use a MaxxECU Pro and get the engine to run and transmission to engage. But even HE recommends going to an LS, especially since this car's sole purpose is motorsport.
 

Registered
2005 S600
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519 Posts
Your "person" owes you a new car...

In all honesty, I would look for a W220 S600 with a blown engine. They're worth almost nothing.

Swap your old, running, V-12 from the now-butchered car into the car with the dead engine and good CANBUS/harness. Cheaper in the long run.

But don't let the clowns who cut the wires anywhere near your cars, ever, again.
 

Registered
2001 S600
Joined
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
That's about where we're headed as well except the other way around. Swap wires and harnesses over to the butchered car.

Butchered car currently has full cage and suspension, not easy to swap that stuff over hahaha.
 

Registered
2005 S600
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519 Posts
Ah, I see. Yeah, donor car, with some major problem (like blown trans, engine, or suspension) is your best bet, I think.
 

Registered
2001 S600
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13 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Ah, I see. Yeah, donor car, with some major problem (like blown trans, engine, or suspension) is your best bet, I think.
Yep, you're absolutely right (on all points made ;) ), seeing as how they've gotten properly inexpensive W220s are and how we've crossed the point where 2, 3 or even 5 grand is going to be a HUGE divider, it may be worth it in the end if we plan to run the V12. My current mechanic is basically in that camp as well; if we can pull EVERYTHING over, we can begin pulling modules to see what is NOT needed versus trying to figure out what is.

Thank you so much!
 

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You must get the same year and model (s600) parts car otherwise it鈥檚 unlikely the modules and harnesses will work with your car, if you get wiring from a donor v8 or different year s600 car .
 

W220 Moderator
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That out of the way, let's clean slate and move forward.
Fair Enough, and yes reading my initial post again, I apologise, it was rather short and now I understand what you and your Team are about, (and you are likely not just another DIY owner who has bought a Car and not realised how much grief it will be), it is less likely I will spend a bunch of time only for you to scarp the idea and never be seen again ..............

I will give you all the help I can ;)

A little background on me very short ...........
I am an Independent Garage owner who specialises in MB, and over my 43 years in the Motor Trade have built many many ground up Cars, for Competition use, usually because during a conversation with others some bright spark has said it can't be done :ROFLMAO:

Funnily enough I have been thinking of getting into Drifting in the UK scene, there is a lot of guys in NW Scotland into it, and I might well build an M113 V8 Engined Car for the purpose, later later as I have enough projects on the go atm ;)

OK, so the others have basically given you the way forward, so lets do what you wanted to do, and get this V12 running correctly, in this V12 Car 馃懣

Yes, get a Blown Engined or dead V12 Car with front end intact and swap all wiring, get it back running well as stock and we'll move forward from there ;)

You absolutely must get a Clone SDS System, can do that for around $500 upwards.

To remove systems, let's say you def need to remove ABS / ETC and SRS, plus perhaps a Coil Over conversion, basically, don't remove any Modules, leave them wired, for example lets just swap in Coil Overs, then use the Module that the proprietary Kits come with to fool the ABC Module, that takes care of that, perhaps also may be able to tellthe Engine to not see it via Version Coding in Developer.

Same sort of procedure with the other stuff, once we ar happy the Engine is pulling ok etc over a bit of mileage can then think about removing the "excess baggage" from the Car to get the weight down.

HTH, and looking forward to some pics,
 

Registered
2000 S430, 2003 S430, 2000 S500, 2003 S600 TT, and 2005 E320 CDI
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4,487 Posts
DRIFT TAXI IS HERE?? COOL!

I've read about you guys, and I've read about that S600 V12 of yours, too! This was a couple of years ago. I'd always wondered why you chose the M137 V12, given the engine cooler gasket problem, but for your purposes, that doesn't even matter. I'm actually kind of a fan! Gotta love seeing a W220 go sideways. :)

@Dave2302, here's the car he's talking about. And he did a coilover conversion, too, like I did! Nyah nyah! :devilish: :giggle:


I'm sorry to hear about the previous "technicians" cutting up the wiring harness. The others are right, another parts car is your best bet. Dave also couldn't be more correct about needing an SDS setup. For your purposes, the C3 version will do very well, indeed. I got mine from ShenZhen OEMScan Tool, Ltd., like @ArcticFreeze did, and it's worked quite well so far, just over three years running now.
 

W220 Moderator
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Hi @cowboyt ,

Yes very interesting article that :)

I see after my post above, he has already done some of the hard work like deleting the ABS / ESP and installing Coilovers ................

@TheDriftTaxi ,

I'm wondering what was done to get around the CAN comm from ABS to Trans Control Unit of Wheel Speeds ????
Perhaps just re plumbed Brake Pipes and left Controller connected ????

I know for a fact a V12 CL C215, (same Electronics Architecture as W220), that Car takes an average of 4 Wheel Speeds and determines Shift Points, one dud sensor, CAN Comm Data was missing at TCU and it's Shifts were 25% late ;)

I have a Custom Coded TCU which has a Manual Mode to go on my SLK, basically that prevents the Trans from Downshifting / Upshifting when using Tiptronic, (and the Paddle Shifts I added to the SLK), also it is custom coded for the different Diff Ratio I will be installing. I would imagine that a very similar mod would be very very good when Drifting;)

He can also customise Shift Points and Clutch Application times / firmness ;)

That TCU Module was done by a Member on here who is way better than me with all the Binary stuff, he does MB Swaps in his sleep, very very knowledgeable man ;)

I can put you in touch with the guy, if you wish.

He did mine remotely via Team Viewer on SDS :D

HTH, Cheers Dave
 

Registered
2001 S600
Joined
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Sorry for the delay, just switched companies (with my day job) and things have been quite busy.

To start, I want to state that I think we've figured out what we're going to do. It's looking, as of posting this (6 - Dec - 2019) that we're going to keep the V12. We, my team and I, are in contact with Brett Willett who is a rep with MaxxECU and we're going to drop the rather hefty sum of money to get the MaxxECU Pro unit. It won't be cheap, but it will allow for us to not only control the M137 as a standalone unit (which should unlock any "hidden potential") it will also be able to control the transmission to OUR specification so we can quicken and firm up shifts or create "holds" for gears. We'll just run that until we blow the transmission up, then start the lengthy process of putting a manual on the back of it. Probably a CD009, T56 or some variant of those. While building that up, it'll probably just get another automatic swapped in, blow it up, wash, rinse, repeat. HAHA!

So yeah, I doubt that much, if any, of the original modules or computers will be of much use.

On the positive side, I guess I'll be able to sell some modules and computers.


@cowboyt, yes sir, that's us. Thank you SO SO much for the warm welcome and kind words. Things have slowed down quite a lot as the season closes out so we've been focusing on our cars. My drivers are doing some big things and should be ready to rock for 2020. Thank you so so much again for the warmth, that means so very much. I'm glad we can make you smile. If you're ever feeling up to sliding your Mercedes, let us know, we'd love to have another Benz drifter, HAHA!

@Dave2302, For the ESP, we simply pulled the fuse. I thought it would be this huge involving process but after weeks and weeks of not getting straight answers from anyone on how to fully defeat the ESP and even Mercedes shrugging their shoulders at us . . .we said "well the worse thing that can happen is it catches fire", turned the car off, pulled the fuse, turned it back on, backed it out of the driveway . . . and . . . well...



From there we just went full send, and it's been a bottomless pit of money syphoning mayhem ever since.

For track use, I would simply place it in manual, then select the gear I wanted. She did a fantastic job of only down shifting when called upon with the WOT switch under the pedal and while spinning tires she'll hold gear. That's more than I was ever able to dream of.



I'm hoping that we ARE able to stick with the V12, re-watching those videos reminds me of the GOBS of torque that thing is able to muster up and it makes me SOOO eager to get back behind the wheel. I was able to literally put it in 3rd and walk sideways, wheel speed 70 . . .vehicle speed 40. I'm buzzing just thinking about it.


Oh well.

Hopefully this sorts it out, if things go nips-to-the-sky, I'll let you all know and we'll figure out what to do from there.
 

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Cant wait to see your progress ! So far no one has had success with a stand-alone ecu on a v12 w220 so you鈥檒l be breaking new ground
 

Registered
2001 S600
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13 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Hopefully it's not TOO bad! My team mate is working on building the engine wiring harness now and learning all of the pin outs in WIS/ARSA.

If we get that going, we'll be working with MaxxECU to get the tuning and programming set and configured. Since we'll be running waste-spark, the irony is that we'll probably wind up buying 12 LS coils and going from there.

It won't be cheap.


Once that's sorted, it'll be:
  • Figuring out how much pressure the power steering rack needs so we can buy and fab up an appropriately sized pump.
  • Trying to track down the connectors we'll need to manually wire up the headlights and tail lights (basically running each group to a switch. The good thing there is we don't need turn signals, LOL! But we will need brake lights, but that's easy once the connectors are sourced.
I think that'll be it, once it's moving and turning under its own power, we can take as long as we like sorting out the nit-pick electrical quandaries and go from there. I know I'm GROSSLY over simplifying it but that's the 30,000 foot view of it I see just now.
 
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