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2007 E220CDI, 1990 300E-24V, 1987 W124 3.6 AMG build 1993 E500 W124, 94 320CE, 1997 W140 S280
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Lots of S500 were sold by Mercedes with an AMG option: bodywork, staggered wheels.

It was a factory option. Came off the assembly line in Sindelfingen with that kit installed.

There IS such a thing.
You are all taking my comment in light hearted fasion too seriously! But your clarfication is my understanding too yes. It's an S500 WITH amg kit & wheels. Factory installed or not does not make the entire car an AMG product. We had one of these too years ago but never refffered to it as anything other than the S500

The wheels are AMG and the car is not; it has a regular engine without the nameplate of the builder.
Yes that's what I mean!

Yes there IS such a thing as a S500 with AMG Package!!
Package not including motor upgrades..... not an AMG car.

Well, an "S500 AMG", no. However, since there was indeed an "AMG Sport Appearance Package" for S430's, S500's, and S600's (our '03 S430 and '03 S600 do have that package), which includes among other things the AMG wheels, the AMG tire/tyre size rules do apply. I took the above posts as referring to S500's with the AMG Sport Package.
Correct! My understanding and I cannot agree more :) It was a chain yank but we must also keep the AMG gods happy. A badge, kit & wheels isnt an AMG car. Period.

Continue thread
 

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https://w220.ee/Wheels_tyres <-- all valid wheels and tires including AMG
Yes Valid in as much as the factory Fitted them !!

However the Factory actually did it properly and Version Coded the Car correctly, not like someone just swapping Wheels and Tyres without knowing what he is doing !!

And as for the great AMG Debate, It is common knowledge that it doesn't have to have a hot rodded Motor, AMG are more about how to knock up the price by adding goodies these days, be it Brakes / Wheels and Tyres / Trim / Body Parts etc etc................

Just like other manufacturers who add brightly coloured interior, lairy paint colours and a board rack on a regular Mini Van and charge an extra 5k because it is the "Surf Model" , or an overpriced BMW Mini with Red and White paint, Spot Lamps, Decals and Alloy Wheels and call it a "Monte-Carlo" for extra $£$£$£$£

Jeez , I'm outta here !!
 

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2000 S430, 2003 S430, 2000 S500, 2003 S600 TT, and 2005 E320 CDI
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Or an S600 TT. :)

But yes, Dave's point about coding tire sizes is right-on, especially because of outer diameter. I'm fortunate in that if I ever did want to put the 18" AMG wheels on, say, the wife's S500 (stock 16" wheels), I have two cars programmed from the factory for the AMG configuration. I'd thus just duplicate those settings on her S500 if need be, along with using the factory specified tire size(s).

According to my Owner's Manual, here's what we've got for the AMG staggered wheel configuration.

Front: 245/45 R 18 96 Y
Rear: 275/40 R 18 99 Y M0

4Matics with the AMG package get 245/45 R 18's on all four wheels.

That's what the book says. Wanna be happiest? Probably a good idea to go by the book...or at least use the same outer diameter of tire that the factory config calls for if you want to get fancy with wheel sizes. :)

@chapzboy , I totally get the deal with the expense of tires. They're not cheap here in the States, either. What I did on the '03 S430 was a little unorthodox, but it does work. I converted to the 4Matic version of the AMG Sport Package, using 245/45 R 18's on all four corners. This is so I could do a four-wheel tire rotation and preserve the life of the tires. Since it is one of the factory configs for W220's, I figured that it should be just fine, and so far, it has been. I will be doing something similar with the S600 TT when the time comes for its new set.
 

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2005 S600
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While I am empathetic to the cost of tires (tyres), I've spent $1,650 on a suspension rebuild, $500 on a PSE pump, and nearly $2,000 on an ABC pump and hoses, engine mounts, and diverter valves.

This year.

If the cost of two tires is pressing your budget, then, perhaps, you should reconsider ownership of this car. If it's a hobby (like mine is, my daily driver is a Tundra pickup) then you spend as you can and let the car sit while awaiting the next repair.

But if it's a daily driver, and tires are causing you a financial hardship, there are cars better suited to daily transportation and more limited means. I've owned several over the years and I would put the collection of three Volvo wagons in that category.

Now, in addition to the various tire size calculators on-line, you can do this yourself if you understand what the numbers mean.

First number: 275. The section width (width of tire through the carcass midpoint) in mm.
Next number: /40. The aspect ratio. The sidewall height/section width.
Next is the R: for "radial"
Finally, the rim diameter: 18.

So, on to the "maths". You've already got the width in mm. You know how wide it is. Now, you can add the sidewall heights (two sidewalls) to the rim diameter and get the overall diameter.

Your 275/4018 has a sidewall height of 110mm. 275*.40=110. So, the overall tire diameter is 2*110mm (1/29.6mm/inch) + 18". 25.4"

A 245/45R18 works out to 245*45 = 110 (! no surprise...but there it is!) 2*110/29.6 + 18. 25.4"

Your hypothetical 275/30?

Ugh... 275*.30 = 82mm, and 2*82/29.6 + 18 yields 23.5" Nearly two inches smaller diameter.

That's a "ginormous" difference in overall diameter. You would see it from a mile away. Your car's ABS and stability systems would be very, very unhappy with the difference in rotation speeds. A truly terrible idea...
 

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2005 S600
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Which is why Mercedes "sandbaggged" the M275 horsepower in the S600. 493 Bhp is a gross underestimate of the V-12 biturbo actual numbers, which are closer to 540 when the measured performance and weight are considered.

But the S55 AMG, which was introduced with the supercharged V-8 in 2003, had 493 HP.

Can't have the cheaper, non "AMG" S600 producing more HP, can we?

No, no, of course not...

The AMG badge means that the car is superior, right?

See you at the next stoplight...
 

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2007 E220CDI, 1990 300E-24V, 1987 W124 3.6 AMG build 1993 E500 W124, 94 320CE, 1997 W140 S280
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Which is why Mercedes "sandbaggged" the M275 horsepower in the S600. 493 Bhp is a gross underestimate of the V-12 biturbo actual numbers, which are closer to 540 when the measured performance and weight are considered.

But the S55 AMG, which was introduced with the supercharged V-8 in 2003, had 493 HP.

Can't have the cheaper, non "AMG" S600 producing more HP, can we?

No, no, of course not...

The AMG badge means that the car is superior, right?

See you at the next stoplight...
Thats great, but your comparing apples to oranges buddy.

S500 VS S55 AMG
S600 VS S65 AMG :D

Let me repeat my simple clarification. To have an S500 w/AMG wheels and whatever (Factory installed or not!) and refer to it casually as an "S500 AMG" is not cool!!

It is NOT an AMG car and should not be referred to as such. It is an S500 w/ AMG.... (insert hopes & dreams here)
 

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Thats great, but your comparing apples to oranges buddy.

S500 VS S55 AMG
S600 VS S65 AMG :D

Let me repeat my simple clarification. To have an S500 w/AMG wheels and whatever (Factory installed or not!) and refer to it casually as an "S500 AMG" is not cool!!

It is NOT an AMG car and should not be referred to as such. It is an S500 w/ AMG.... (insert hopes & dreams here)
Absolutely apples to apples in 2003, year one for both the supercharged V-8 and the biturbo V-12.

The S65 AMG wasn't available in the US until the 2005 MY. Perhaps on your side of the pond, it was different.

So, for a couple of years, you had the S55 AMG as the W220 line-up leader. The "limited edition performance" model. Bigger brakes. Body kit. Staggered wheels. And supercharger.

Even though the slightly more expensive, much more understated, V-12 was quicker...

Mercedes sold the S500 with the kit as the "S500 AMG" - said so in the literature, on the decklid, and in everyone's mind. Came that way from the factory: staggered wheels, body work, badging. All "AMG".

Since Mercedes bought AMG in about 2005, and AMG is now a wholly owned subsidiary, Mercedes can call whatever they want an "AMG". It's no longer a separate company. AMG no longer means an entire set of performance upgrades.

A set of wheels, body kit and badging, if done by Mercedes, IS an AMG. This may offend your purist sensibilities, but it was an MB decision.

There was even an AMG S600 sold, in very limited numbers. Again, staggered wheels, and body kit. Nice looking car.

Not an S65 AMG, but an S600.

It was, according to Mercedes, an AMG.
 

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2007 E220CDI, 1990 300E-24V, 1987 W124 3.6 AMG build 1993 E500 W124, 94 320CE, 1997 W140 S280
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Absolutely apples to apples in 2003, year one for both the supercharged V-8 and the biturbo V-12.

The S65 AMG wasn't available in the US until the 2005 MY. Perhaps on your side of the pond, it was different.

So, for a couple of years, you had the S55 AMG as the W220 line-up leader. The "limited edition performance" model. Bigger brakes. Mercedes sold the S500 with the kit as the "S500 AMG" - said so in the literature, on the decklid, and in everyone's mind. Came that way from the factory: staggered wheels, body work, badging. All "AMG".

Since Mercedes bought AMG in about 2005, and AMG is now a wholly owned subsidiary, Mercedes can call whatever they want an "AMG". It's no longer a separate company. AMG no longer means an entire set of performance upgrades.

A set of wheels, body kit and badging, if done by Mercedes, IS an AMG. This may offend your purist sensibilities, but it was an MB decision.

There was even an AMG S600 sold, in very limited numbers. Again, staggered wheels, and body kit. Nice looking car.

Not an S65 AMG, but an S600.

It was, according to Mercedes, an AMG.
S65 was available in 2003

MB Literature did not say S500 AMG! (I have access to every year of w220 brochures so these are facts)
 

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S65 was available in 2003

MB Literature did not say S500 AMG! (I have access to every year of w220 brochures so these are facts)
Again.

YOUR side of the pond.

Not the same over here.
 

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I'm with JC, AMG wheels do not an AMG make.

I think manufacturers undermine their premium lines by badge engineering these days. They're all guilty of it. Some people just want the sporty look but don't want to pay for the goodies under the skin. Vain.

Nick
 

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Here is a PDF copy attached of my w220 brochure. It's a cool doc - any w220 owner will like it!

It will feed into the OP's question about Tyre Sizes too.
 

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But yes, Dave's point about coding tire sizes is right-on, especially because of outer diameter. I'm fortunate in that if I ever did want to put the 18" AMG wheels on, say, the wife's S500 (stock 16" wheels), I have two cars programmed from the factory for the AMG configuration. I'd thus just duplicate those settings on her S500 if need be, along with using the factory specified tire size(s).
T,
I wonder what settings would those be on the SDS. Or what needs to be changed on the SDS to accommodate AMG Wheels on a non AMG car. Just curious :)
 

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Here is a PDF copy attached of my w220 brochure. It's a cool doc - any w220 owner will like it!

It will feed into the OP's question about Tyre Sizes too.
That's a cool brochure.

Thanks! I will add it to my "S class file". Along with the scanned copy of the original window sticker and a few other references.

Cheers!

I think the kernel of confusion/dissention is this: "The S-Class AMG Sport Package option".

So, with the factory AMG Sport Package option...is it an AMG car?
 

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That's a cool brochure.

Thanks! I will add it to my "S class file". Along with the scanned copy of the original window sticker and a few other references.

Cheers!

I think the kernel of confusion/dissention is this: "The S-Class AMG Sport Package option".

So, with the factory AMG Sport Package option...is it an AMG car?
I don't believe that it is. For example, I would never refer to my '03 S430 as an "S430 AMG". But it does look just like an AMG W220. I think what makes a car an "AMG" is the combination of the hand-built, specially tuned engine, somewhat tighter suspension, and if appropriate, something to help with the aerodynamics at higher speeds, e. g. the things that the original AMG Hammer had.

Now, were I to turbocharge my '03 S430 to something closer to AMG levels of power--say, a twin-turbo setup in spirit like the S600 TT's with, say, 400 or so HP--then I would probably call it an "S430 TT" and badge it as such. And it'd be fun as heck to drive, given proper turbo selection. :)

But personally, I think this whole, "should we call it an S500 AMG?" bit is just nitpicking, even though @JC220 is correct. Remember, we're talking about wheel sizes here, and in this regard, the rules for the AMG cars also apply to the non-AMG cars. That's really what this thread is about, isn't it?
 

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I don’t think op cares at all about what’s a real amg , he’s looking to put the cheapest tires he can find on the car

And as I answered , the cheapest tires that will WORK properly are 245/45 all around, or 265/40
 

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I can tell everyone right now, Tyre Sizes have to be set using SDS Developer Mode in the following :-

ME2.8 ECU first 4 lines ........ Developer Mode Implizite Kodierung

TCU , ........ Needs Custom Coding or SCN Access, (IIRC) cannot do it with plain Jane SDS

ABS / ESP ........ Developer Mode Implizite Kodierung , maybe regular Version Coding

Instrument Cluster ........ Regular Version Coding or Developer Mode Implizite Kodierung if you fancy practice at your German :D

All That is FACT !!

"Dyn. Radumfang" Hi and low Bytes, Front and Rear !!!!!!!! This is the ME Codings for my V8 R170 Project ..............

Look at the difference between the First figure (U = 2.087) that I have just set for the Rear Tyres I'll be using, compared to the other 3 that were yet to be changed in that screen shot, and are the standard R170 Tyres (U = 1.960) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Look at the left Margin, lines 0001 to 0017 Yep, THERE ARE 17 different Settings, hmm Mercedes and AMG spent all that $$$$$$$$$$$ £££££££££££££ YEN etc etc developing this, and some "internet know it all" knows better :D :D :D

Me .......... Rattled ??

HELL YEAH !!

IF The Tyres you choose happen to be EXACTLY the same Rolling Circumference as the Original Tyres fitted to the Car, then of course you do not need to Version Code it is feck all to do with 275 , 245 , 225, 325 etc etc yak yak yak ...............

It is the Rolling Circumference which is the important factor, and that can only be calculated from Tyre width, profile, and diameter !!

That is what the Cars systems need to know, i.e. PRECISELY HOW MANY REVOLUTIONS PER MILE the actual Hub will be doing, which of course varies with Tyre Circumference !!

OK now lets refer to @tusabes 265's

He is correct that they will work without being Re Coded , you will likely not get Faults Flagged ........................

However because they are not an exact match, the Cars various Electronics will NOT be working exactly as they should !!

Can you notice the difference ??

Some drivers will, most drivers will not !!

Anyone who has competed in Motorsports where you need to be able to set a car up should be able to ........

I can feel the difference in things like ESP, ABS and Gearshift Points, stopwatch will prove it !!
I can see the difference in Dash Information such as Fuel Consumption and Mileages on a long Journey !!

All other things being equal, and Lap Times of a Car going round a Circuit that then has a Tyre Swap mid session will definitely PROVE the difference ......................

So why the "I cant be @rsed to do the job properly" mentality exists I will never understand.

Same as wrapping twisted wires together and a quick turn of insulating tape brigade .................. Yeah it gets the Car going, new Stereo Boom Box working etc etc, but it's not done right is it !!

Rant Over ...............

"Thats all Folks" cue the music ...................

I can't be bothered to have a week long discussion, too busy to reply, better things to do etc etc ................

IMO DO THE JOB RIGHT OR DON'T DO IT AT ALL 👿

I've led the Horse to Water once again, it is however up to that Horse whether it wants to Drink the Water !!
 

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I can tell everyone right now, Tyre Sizes have to be set using SDS Developer Mode in the following :-

ME2.8 ECU first 4 lines ........ Developer Mode Implizite Kodierung

TCU , ........ Needs Custom Coding or SCN Access, (IIRC) cannot do it with plain Jane SDS

ABS / ESP ........ Developer Mode Implizite Kodierung , maybe regular Version Coding

Instrument Cluster ........ Regular Version Coding or Developer Mode Implizite Kodierung if you fancy practice at your German :D

All That is FACT !!

"Dyn. Radumfang" Hi and low Bytes, Front and Rear !!!!!!!! This is the ME Codings for my V8 R170 Project ..............

Look at the difference between the First figure (U = 2.087) that I have just set for the Rear Tyres I'll be using, compared to the other 3 that were yet to be changed in that screen shot, and are the standard R170 Tyres (U = 1.960) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Look at the left Margin, lines 0001 to 0017 Yep, THERE ARE 17 different Settings, hmm Mercedes and AMG spent all that $$$$$$$$$$$ £££££££££££££ YEN etc etc developing this, and some "internet know it all" knows better :D :D :D

Me .......... Rattled ??

HELL YEAH !!

IF The Tyres you choose happen to be EXACTLY the same Rolling Circumference as the Original Tyres fitted to the Car, then of course you do not need to Version Code it is feck all to do with 275 , 245 , 225, 325 etc etc yak yak yak ...............

It is the Rolling Circumference which is the important factor, and that can only be calculated from Tyre width, profile, and diameter !!

That is what the Cars systems need to know, i.e. PRECISELY HOW MANY REVOLUTIONS PER MILE the actual Hub will be doing, which of course varies with Tyre Circumference !!

OK now lets refer to @tusabes 265's

He is correct that they will work without being Re Coded , you will likely not get Faults Flagged ........................

However because they are not an exact match, the Cars various Electronics will NOT be working exactly as they should !!

Can you notice the difference ??

Some drivers will, most drivers will not !!

Anyone who has competed in Motorsports where you need to be able to set a car up should be able to ........

I can feel the difference in things like ESP, ABS and Gearshift Points, stopwatch will prove it !!
I can see the difference in Dash Information such as Fuel Consumption and Mileages on a long Journey !!

All other things being equal, and Lap Times of a Car going round a Circuit that then has a Tyre Swap mid session will definitely PROVE the difference ......................

So why the "I cant be @rsed to do the job properly" mentality exists I will never understand.

Same as wrapping twisted wires together and a quick turn of insulating tape brigade .................. Yeah it gets the Car going, new Stereo Boom Box working etc etc, but it's not done right is it !!

Rant Over ...............

"Thats all Folks" cue the music ...................

I can't be bothered to have a week long discussion, too busy to reply, better things to do etc etc ................

IMO DO THE JOB RIGHT OR DON'T DO IT AT ALL 👿

I've led the Horse to Water once again, it is however up to that Horse whether it wants to Drink the Water !!
Thank you Dave for the detailed explanation. On point as always (y)
 

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