[RevLane]

Hi everyone,

Do any of you guys run your diesels in below freezing temperature. I live in NYC and we have 10-15 days a year where temperature is in the 20's F and a few where it's below 10 F.

I'm thinking of adding kerosene to the tank so I can keep driving my 91 350SD but I have never done this before and I'm not sure if there is a specific type or how much to add.

What do you guys do in the winter?

 

[wilson1010]

Kerosene is no better than W.inter Diesel (the gas stations switch products).

Put a gallon of regular gas in with the diesel.

But, 20's is not a problem for Winter diesel. E320CDI started right up at -10F at Xmas

My

 

[KoboldWrangler]

as long as your stations have switched to winter diesel, youll be fine. the only time i had an issue was when we had a cold snap of -19*F for two days. even with the diesel-911 crap my fuel did not want to flow. block heater on mine doenst really help much either.

 

[Gumpy]

Doubt if NYC stations ever switch to winter diesel - only places that get cold will do that. "Winter diesel" is a 50/50 blend of kerosene and #2 fuel oil (regular diesel). Problem is that regular diesel will "cloud" (form wax crystals) somewhere between 30 and 15 F and "gel" (turn into a thick fluid that will not pump) between 10 and 20 F. Below the cloud point, the wax may plug the injectors and the car will run rough or not start at all. At the gel point, the car will not start. Exact temperatures all depend on the refinery run of the fuel and whether the station adds an anti-gel additive. My advice is to keep running pump diesel, but add an anti-gel (like Power Service or Lucas) at the recommended rate during the cold weeks. Even though it might be zero outside, it will take some time for the fuel in the tank to reach that temperature - especially if parked out of the wind. I ran my 300D (unheated garage kept) on pump fuel with Power Service 911 for years during the winter and the only problem I had was once when I left it idling overnight when it was parked outside on a windy night when the temperature hit -30F. Also using a thinner winter oil (0W-40)helps. Don't do something like adding gas to the fuel as it will not change either the cloud point or gel point - gasoline and diesel are two different types of fuel.

 

[John350]

If you buy your fuel locally you should be fine. It's blended for the season. I've been driving Diesels for 60 years and never had a problem with fuel that was purchased where the problem occurred. Now, if you fill up in Florida and ship the car to Vermont in January, Or you fill it in August and don't drive it until January, you might run into a problem...

If you do run into a problem, add the prescribed amount of Diesel 911 to the tank and change the fuel filter and you'll be fine. If you have a heated filter you may never even notice a problem.

 

[jdulle]

You'll also want good glow plugs, a strong starter, and a strong battery.

 

[wilson1010]

New York switches in October or November.

 

[Gumpy]

@wilson1010 Really? NYC or Utica? BIG difference between 20F and -30F. Switches from what to what? NYC may add an antigel, but cold part of NY stations only switch to winter diesel (50/50) in the depth of winter. Our local emergency services (Fire/EMS) fill thier tanks with 50/50 from early December to mid March as a precautionary move. When I fill my farm tanks, I have to specify winter mix or else I get #2 fuel oil (regular diesel) regardless of the weather or date. Tank farms will normally store either #2 (diesel, fuel oil) or #1 (kerosene) and it is up to the buyer to specify the blend that is put in the tanker and any additive that is required. Airports will store Jet A fuel and switch over to Jet B in really cold weather. Military bases will store JP 8 (similar to kerosene) for both aviation and ground based equipment year round. There is no harm in running your diesel on pure kerosene - only difference will be a slight loss in power and economy. and potential lubrication problems if run for the long term. @John 350 has given the best advice - local pump juice with an antigel for the coldest weather. Changing the fuel filter(s) will get rid of any wax buildup if you let it sit in the cold too long with no fuel flow.

 

[RevLane]

Doubt if NYC stations ever switch to winter diesel - only places that get cold will do that. "Winter diesel" is a 50/50 blend of kerosene and #2 fuel oil (regular diesel). Problem is that regular diesel will "cloud" (form wax crystals) somewhere between 30 and 15 F and "gel" (turn into a thick fluid that will not pump) between 10 and 20 F. Below the cloud point, the wax may plug the injectors and the car will run rough or not start at all. At the gel point, the car will not start. Exact temperatures all depend on the refinery run of the fuel and whether the station adds an anti-gel additive. My advice is to keep running pump diesel, but add an anti-gel (like Power Service or Lucas) at the recommended rate during the cold weeks. Even though it might be zero outside, it will take some time for the fuel in the tank to reach that temperature - especially if parked out of the wind. I ran my 300D (unheated garage kept) on pump fuel with Power Service 911 for years during the winter and the only problem I had was once when I left it idling overnight when it was parked outside on a windy night when the temperature hit -30F. Also using a thinner winter oil (0W-40)helps. Don't do something like adding gas to the fuel as it will not change either the cloud point or gel point - gasoline and diesel are two different types of fuel.

Thanks, my only concern with something like power service 911 is if it ruins any seals, have you ever had any issues like this?

 

[RevLane]

Doubt if NYC stations ever switch to winter diesel - only places that get cold will do that. "Winter diesel" is a 50/50 blend of kerosene and #2 fuel oil (regular diesel). Problem is that regular diesel will "cloud" (form wax crystals) somewhere between 30 and 15 F and "gel" (turn into a thick fluid that will not pump) between 10 and 20 F. Below the cloud point, the wax may plug the injectors and the car will run rough or not start at all. At the gel point, the car will not start. Exact temperatures all depend on the refinery run of the fuel and whether the station adds an anti-gel additive. My advice is to keep running pump diesel, but add an anti-gel (like Power Service or Lucas) at the recommended rate during the cold weeks. Even though it might be zero outside, it will take some time for the fuel in the tank to reach that temperature - especially if parked out of the wind. I ran my 300D (unheated garage kept) on pump fuel with Power Service 911 for years during the winter and the only problem I had was once when I left it idling overnight when it was parked outside on a windy night when the temperature hit -30F. Also using a thinner winter oil (0W-40)helps. Don't do something like adding gas to the fuel as it will not change either the cloud point or gel point - gasoline and diesel are two different types of fuel.

r the coldest weather. Changing the fu

If you buy your fuel locally you should be fine. It's blended for the season. I've been driving Diesels for 60 years and never had a problem with fuel that was purchased where the problem occurred. Now, if you fill up in Florida and ship the car to Vermont in January, Or you fill it in August and don't drive it until January, you might run into a problem...

If you do run into a problem, add the prescribed amount of Diesel 911 to the tank and change the fuel filter and you'll be fine. If you have a heated filter you may never even notice a problem.

Thanks, I do purchase fuel locally and fill up about every 2-3 weeks, last fill up was 2 weeks ago. My car also has a water separation system so I'm extra conscious of jelling. It is garage kept as well. So i think I will just give it a try. Thanks for your advise.

 

[wilson1010]

@wilson1010 Really? NYC or Utica? BIG difference between 20F and -30F. Switches from what to what? NYC may add an antigel, but cold part of NY stations only switch to winter diesel (50/50) in the depth of winter. Our local emergency services (Fire/EMS) fill thier tanks with 50/50 from early December to mid March as a precautionary move. When I fill my farm tanks, I have to specify winter mix or else I get #2 fuel oil (regular diesel) regardless of the weather or date. Tank farms will normally store either #2 (diesel, fuel oil) or #1 (kerosene) and it is up to the buyer to specify the blend that is put in the tanker and any additive that is required. Airports will store Jet A fuel and switch over to Jet B in really cold weather. Military bases will store JP 8 (similar to kerosene) for both aviation and ground based equipment year round. There is no harm in running your diesel on pure kerosene - only difference will be a slight loss in power and economy. and potential lubrication problems if run for the long term. @John 350 has given the best advice - local pump juice with an antigel for the coldest weather. Changing the fuel filter(s) will get rid of any wax buildup if you let it sit in the cold too long with no fuel flow.

Diesel rigs go through NY on their way to everywhere. Are you thinking rigs on their way to Minnesota don't get fueled in NY?

 

[Gumpy]

Thanks, I do purchase fuel locally and fill up about every 2-3 weeks, last fill up was 2 weeks ago. My car also has a water separation system so I'm extra conscious of jelling. It is garage kept as well. So i think I will just give it a try. Thanks for your advise.

@RevLane You should be in good shape! Never had any seal issues with 911 in any of my trucks, tractors, Mercedes, transfer pumps or oil heat burners. Adding gasoline or any other higher aromatic is another issue and may ruin seals in a diesel fuel system

 

[John350]

Are you thinking rigs on their way to Minnesota don't get fueled in NY?

If you're tankering fuel then sure, you need to be your own chemist, otherwise, nothing to worry about.

 

[RevLane]

Thanks for the info everyone, has anyone used Howes diesel treatment, it's super highly rated on Amazon, not saying that's an authority but I saw people recommending it on Reddit as well so figure I ask.

https://www.amazon.com/Howes-103060...&qid=1675443163&sprefix=howell,aps,107&sr=8-2

 

[wilson1010]

If you're tankering fuel then sure, you need to be your own chemist, otherwise, nothing to worry about.

The comment Grumpy made irritated me so I called a Sunoco truck stop outside NYC and asked about winter fuel. They reacted like "are you nuts? No one can get anything else but winter formula after November 1." It was a stupid question. I was embarrassed to have asked.

 

[Gumpy]

Thanks for the info everyone, has anyone used Howes diesel treatment, it's super highly rated on Amazon, not saying that's an authority but I saw people recommending it on Reddit as well so figure I ask.

https://www.amazon.com/Howes-103060-Diesel-Conditioner-Anti-Gel/dp/B001JT3I0U/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3KV138O3PF5&keywords=howell+diesel+treatment&qid=1675443163&sprefix=howell,aps,107&sr=8-2

Have only used 911. Best way to see if it "good" additive is to visit a truck stop in NY (above the Mohawk) during the winter and see what they are selling - in my experience most sell a lot of 911 and a little of other brands. My experience with vendor/product ratings is to disregard all the 4/5 star ratings (most put up by the company or influencers?) and read the 1/2 star ratings - FWIW. Howes' seem to be pretty good!

 

[John350]

has anyone used Howes diesel treatment

Are you looking for something to use all the time (unnecessary in most situations) or something for an emergency (unlikely in most situations)?

 

[compu_85]

Add some Power Service. Silver bottle in the summer, white bottle in the winter. Red bottle is only for emergency use, after your fuel has already gelled.

It's less of an issue now than it was in the 80s... in my experience fuel from the pumps is treated properly.

Your car has a fuel preheater too. Assuming everything is in good shape I wouldn't worry. With just Power Service - no block heater, no parking inside - my 350 has started fine down to -15*F. (I used to live in Michigan)

Unless it's going to be well below 0F for some time I wouldn't add gasoline to the diesel. It ruins the lubricity, which wears out the fuel injectors and pump elements. NEVER do this on a common rail diesel!

-J

 

[John350]

GLK250 with fuel straight from the pump started today at -6F like it was summer time. Tomorrow it's supposed to be closer to -15.

 

[Gumpy]

GLK250 with fuel straight from the pump started today at -6F like it was summer time. Tomorrow it's supposed to be closer to -15.

@John350, @RevLane Update from Central NY: -25 last night. Listening to scanner and both Town and county having trucks stopping on the road as fuel gels - both scrambling to find some 911 (PPPPPPP!).
My fleet: - all sitting outside in 30+ knot wind
1. Big Massey running on #2 summer diesel from farm tank with a double dose of 911in the tank. Started with 1/2 crank after a short shot of ether.
2. John Deere compact with Yanmar 4 running on #2 summer diesel from farm tank with a double dose of 911in the tank. Started on first crank after a preheat from the intake heater.
3. Ford F350 with 6.0 liter running on recent pump diesel. Failed to start with two pre-heats even with Rotella T6 and $100 worth of Archoil.

Conclusion from this not-so-scientific test? DANG - ITS COLDDDD!