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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,

I've done a search on this topic, and everyone is saying to pull the code. Unfortunately, i dont know how? I have a 92 600SEL with 77,000KMS. Last time at mercedes, they told me i MAY have a wiring issue, but they weren't sure without checking so we didn't address it, since nothing major was wrong with it.

So last month, my ASR light went on with limp home mode, and after bringing back to the dealer and re-doing something with the computer, the problem was gone.

Today, being rainy out, and stuck in traffic, the car was running fine. Then while i was sitting in traffic, the rpm at idle dropped to 500-600rpm. The car started sounding alot rougher and louder even when i wasn't moving. As i start accerlerating, the car is NOT smooth between idle - around 2000rpm. It rattles and it is rough. After that, when idling, the rpm meter starts bouncing, and now i can smell a little "burnt" smell to the car.

My father keeps saying that there's not enough water in the coolant. So if i were to add more distilled water into it, WHERE is the coolant located? (seems like a dumb question)

Also, from the search, everyone told me to pull the codes to see what is wrong with the car. How do i pull the codes?

Please help, since I am not very mechanically inclined, and some of the problems i searched for seemed very bad. =(

Thanks!
 

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1993 300SEL (Sold) 2007 X5
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7,218 Posts
I don't see how adding more water into the coolant would do anything. I'm guessing you don't know the service history of the car but at 77km's you might as well go ahead and redo all the sparkplugs, fuel filter, cap and rotor etc just so you know where they're all at most of that stuff would haev to replaced at the latest by 100,000km anyway to I'd say it's becomming due, the easy way to check the wiring looms/harness in the engine bay is simply to press down on the loops of wiring if their soft they're good 9 times out of 10 if their hard and brittle then more often than not it's done for.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
sir, this might sound like the stupidest question to you. But when pressing into the wires, what do the wires look like? ahhahah, black tubes? or are they actually electrial wires? and where ARE they? I am so stupid is beyond retarded :(

:surrender:
 

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1993 300SEL (Sold) 2007 X5
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7,218 Posts
sir, this might sound like the stupidest question to you. But when pressing into the wires, what do the wires look like? ahhahah, black tubes? or are they actually electrial wires? and where ARE they? I am so stupid is beyond retarded :(

:surrender:
I'll be honest I can't turn a spanner to save myself too, I had my mechanic look at mine whilst I was shaking him down for some free advice lol that and it's different for each engine heres a link to some wiring work Brett did I guess if you look at the areas where he was removing the wiring from then thats a good place to start:

V12 Uber Alles, Rewiring the Mass Air Flow Meter (MAF) Connector and Wire Harness in a Mercedes Benz S600
 

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Discussion Starter #5
i just checked the coolant level, and it is rather low...it's supposed to be filled to the brim, but it's not. I tried poking it with a measuring stick and my stick (length of a pen) didn't touch liquid until past the half way length of the stick. Could that have anything to do with the problem?

I will go to Merc tomorrow to buy their recommend anit freeze and top it off again.
 

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1993 Mercedes-Benz 300SE & 1998 Mercedes-Benz C230
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257 Posts
In answer to your question, you have to check your fault codes if your ASR light went on. For W140s you have to hook a mushroom connector up to your car's computer (located on rights side engine compartment near the firewall in a circular capped cover (turn and pull off)). Special diagnostic tester needed, or you can pay to have M-B dealer do. The code may reveal problem w/ the rough performance. ASR lights going on have been associated with wiring harness shorting due to deteriorating plastic, and throttle actuator failure. Could also be previous post on simple tune up needed, or air mass sensor failure. Pull your codes may save you some money if a code is now showing.
 

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1995 s420 w140
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5 Posts
Hey guys,

I've done a search on this topic, and everyone is saying to pull the code. Unfortunately, i dont know how? I have a 92 600SEL with 77,000KMS. Last time at mercedes, they told me i MAY have a wiring issue, but they weren't sure without checking so we didn't address it, since nothing major was wrong with it.

So last month, my ASR light went on with limp home mode, and after bringing back to the dealer and re-doing something with the computer, the problem was gone.

Today, being rainy out, and stuck in traffic, the car was running fine. Then while i was sitting in traffic, the rpm at idle dropped to 500-600rpm. The car started sounding alot rougher and louder even when i wasn't moving. As i start accerlerating, the car is NOT smooth between idle - around 2000rpm. It rattles and it is rough. After that, when idling, the rpm meter starts bouncing, and now i can smell a little "burnt" smell to the car.

My father keeps saying that there's not enough water in the coolant. So if i were to add more distilled water into it, WHERE is the coolant located? (seems like a dumb question)

Also, from the search, everyone told me to pull the codes to see what is wrong with the car. How do i pull the codes?

Please help, since I am not very mechanically inclined, and some of the problems i searched for seemed very bad. =(

Thanks!
I'm having the same issue with my car did you ever figure it out
 

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94 - S500 Cpe
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418 Posts
Check out my web page here for info on the diag system in your '92 S600SEL . . . please read it to understand the various ECUs in the car's diagnostic system.

Your car SHOULD have the built-in LED/Pushbutton called "X11/21s1" which will read the codes in the DIAGNOSTIC module.

If you car doesn't have "X11/21s1", you can build one here in the "Home Brew DTC Tool" section that will read the stored codes.

If you can't/don't want to build one, here's a code reader that you can purchase here This one provides a document that shows the PIN numbers vs the ECU under test.

There's a lot of people here that can help you diagnose what the codes mean.
 

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1994 s600 coupe
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684 Posts
the diagnostic module gives a limited number of code options as to what may be wrong,
but it does do many of the basics.
if you have any kind of drive-ability problem with any OBD2 car, you simply MUST get it hooked up to a live data scan tool.
you MUST read the IAT (intake air temperature), MAF (mass airflow voltage and airflow), o2 sensor voltage in exhaust stream both sides, coolant temperature both sides, throttle position angle both sides, check to see if the idle speed contact and wide open throttle contacts are opening, look at the fuel trims %, ignition timing both sides, primary ignition burn time voltage, etc. get a book that tells you what these values should read, and compare to actual what your car reads. the ones that are off, now you have an idea what area to look into. check all the ground points, fuses in ALL fuseboxes under the hood, and in the trunk. if the car has distributor ignition, pull both caps/rotors and inspect. if the burn time voltage is too high, change the caps and rotors. as a matter of course any old engine with original or dated caps/rotors/plugs needs that replaced. you can get by with the wires for quite a while. look at the air filters and if the car runs noticeably better with them removed, change them. if you hold the air filter up to the sun, if you can't see light through it, throw it away, get new ones. also check the fuel pressure. fuel filters and regulators are relatively inexpensive, change them. if the fuel pressure is still down, you may need pumps. what happens is, you slowly whip the car back into fighting shape like a boxer. it progressively runs better and better each time you change a worn part. all the worn parts contribute to degraded engine performance, it's rarely just one magic bullet part and it's fixed. good luck.

remember this- with a live data scan tool, you have a prayer. without a scan tool, you have nothing but air. no scan tool means you're flying blind.
 

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1995 s420 w140
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5 Posts
I know how to do some of this stuff. It's also an obd1 so there's no live data with scan tools, I was just asking the person who posted this discussion because he had the same problem so far and I haven't seen any forum with people who has the same problem (there's quite a few of them) explaining what was actually wrong with it.
 

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1994 S600 Coupe, 1995 S600 Coupe
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1,997 Posts
I know how to do some of this stuff. It's also an obd1 so there's no live data with scan tools, I was just asking the person who posted this discussion because he had the same problem so far and I haven't seen any forum with people who has the same problem (there's quite a few of them) explaining what was actually wrong with it.
There is live data on the early cars and OBD 1 with the STAR diagnostic system/HHTWin. Works well.

Jon
 

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1994 s600 coupe
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684 Posts
that's a misconception, if you have an M120 V12 from 1991-95, it's actually an early ANALOG OBD2. it has practically all the live data that the 1996-up bona fide real OBD2 has, along with all the codes and diagnostic capability. the computer just isn't as fast as the later digital OBD2. that's my analysis of it, after having been scanning cars since the dawn of OBD1 back in the early 1980's.
true OBD1 had no live data per se, you had to tap into all the connectors with a voltmeter, and read it manually. they really sucked in that respect, and were hard to diagnose, and a patchwork system. half-aszed, a stopgap they used until OBD2 was perfected.
 

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1994 s600 coupe
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684 Posts
my experience with OBD1 was with USA-domestic mfd. cars. I think the only thing OBD1 had was coolant temp and o2 sensor, if that. I remember measuring TPS sensor voltage with a voltmeter, and adjusting it, what a PITA. when OBD2 came out, most people happily scrapped their OBD1 cars, unless they were Firebird, Camaro, Mustang, Corvette. and the majority of the OBD1 cars were converted to hot rods with carburetors, which was/is a huge improvement over OBD1 configuration.
 

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94 - S500 Cpe
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418 Posts
I was just asking the person who posted this discussion because he had the same problem so far and I haven't seen any forum with people who has the same problem (there's quite a few of them) explaining what was actually wrong with it.
You originally posted that you didn't know how to read the codes . . . thus MY RESPONSE.

If you have an "ASR" problem, please POST WHAT'S HAPPENING . . . so we can assist you . . .
1) was the engine wiring harness replaced??
2) was the ETA rebuilt or replaced?

You get the idea . .
 

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1994 s600 coupe
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684 Posts
I think most times these ASR problems are shorted wiring in the harnesses, or blown fuses in the end module in coffin box.
 

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600 coupe, one of the very first built
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that's a misconception, if you have an M120 V12 from 1991-95, it's actually an early ANALOG OBD2.
Not to be unnecessarily argumentative, but what you are saying is likely incorrect.
The early M120s do not use any of the five OBD-II protocols from the SAE standard

www.obdii.com lists the cars/models that were OBD-II compliant prior to 1996, and the S600 w140s are not among them. Only the 6-bangers from 1994 and 1995 apparently were in compliance.
Here is the full list:

Engine FamilyManufacturerModel(s)Fully Compliant?
1994 Model Year Certifications
RAD2.8V8GFEM
RFM3.8V8G1EK
RFM4.6V8G1EK
RMB2.2VJGCEK
RMB3.2VJGCEK
RNS2.0VJGDEK
RTY3.0VJGFEK
RTY2.7HGEEK
RTY2.42HGEEK
RVW2.8V8GFHM
RVV2.3VHGFEK
Audi
Ford
Ford
Mercedes-Benz
Mercedes-Benz
Nissan
Toyota
Toyota
Toyota
Volkswagen
Volvo
100
Mustang
T-Bird, Cougar
C220
C 280, S 320, SL 320
G20
Camry, ES300
T100
Previa, Previa All-Trac
Corrado
850 Turbo
No
No
No
No
No
Yes
No
No
No
No
No
1995 Model Year Certifications
SBM5.4V8GAEK
SCR2.0VJGFEK
SCR122VJG2EK
SCR2.0VJG2GK
SCR2.0VJGFEL
SDS2.0VJGFEK


SFM3.828G1EK
SFM3.8V8G1EK
SFM4.6V8G1EK
SFM4.6V8G1GK

SFM2.318G1EK
SFM3.028G1EK
SFM3.018G1EK
SFM3.028G1FK
SFM4.018G1EK
SFM4.6VJG1EK
SFM4.028G1EK
S1G3.8V8G1EK
S3G4.319GFEJ
S3G4.329GFGJ
SIG2.3VJG2GK
SHN2.7VJG1EK
SHN2.7VJGFEK
SHN2.5VJGKEK
SHN3.0VJGKEK
SJC4.0VJGAEK
SJC6.0V8GFFK
SJC4.0VJGFEK
SKM1.8VJG1EK
STK2.3VJGFEK
STK2.5VJGFEK
STK1.5VJG2EK
STK1.8VJG1EK
SFM2.318G1EK
SFM3.018G1EK
SFM3.028G1FK
SFM4.018G1EK
SFM4.028G1EK
SMB3.6VJGFEK
SMT1.5VJG2EK
SMT1.8VJG2EK

SMT2.4VJG2EK
SNS2.4VJGFFK
SNS2.0VJGFFK
SNS3.0VJG1EK
SNS3.0VJG1FK
SNS2.4VJG2EK
SNS1.6VJG2EK
SNS2.0VJGFEK
SNS3.0VJG1EK
SLR4.0H8GOEK
SFJ2.2VJGFEK
STY3.41JG1GK
STY3.42JG1GK
STY3.0VJGFEK

STY2.42HGJEK
STY2.71HGEEK
STY1.5VHGFEK
STY4.0VJG1GK
STY2.41HG1GK
STY2.71HG1GK
STY3.41JGFEK
STY3.42JGFEK
STY4.55JGFEK
SVV2.3VJGFEK
SVV2.4VJGFEK
BMW
Chrysler
Chrysler
Chrysler
Chrysler
Diamond Star


Ford
Ford
Ford
Ford

Ford
Ford
Ford
Ford
Ford
Ford
Ford
GM
GM
GM
GMC
Honda
Honda
Honda
Honda
Jaguar
Jaguar
Jaguar
KIA
Mazda
Mazda
Mazda
Mazda
Mazda*
Mazda*
Mazda*
Mazda*
Mazda*
Mercedes Benz
Mitsubishi
Mitsubishi

Mitsubishi
Nissan
Nissan
Nissan
Nissan
Nissan
Nissan
Nissan
Nissan
Rover
Subaru
Toyota
Toyota
Toyota

Toyota
Toyota
Toyota
Toyota
Toyota
Toyota
Toyota
Toyota
Toyota
Volvo (TC)
Volvo
750cl(V12), 850ci(V12)
Dodge Neon, Plymouth Neon
Dodge Neon, Plymouth Neon
Dodge Neon, Plymouth Neon
Dodge Neon, Plymouth Neon
Eagle Talon, Mitsubishi
Eclipse, Chrysler Sebring,
Dodge Avenger
Windstar
Mustang
T-Bird, Cougar
Grand Marquis, Town Car,
Crown Victoria
Ranger
Windstar
Ranger
Ranger
Ranger
Continental
Ranger
Camaro, Firebird
S10 Pick-Up, Jimmy, Blazer
S10 Pick-Up
Cavalier, Sunfire
Accord LX, EX (V6)
Accord LX, EX (V6)
TL
NSX
AJ16 (SC)
V12
XJS
Sephia
Millenia
Millenia
Protege
Protege
B2300
B3000
B3000
B4000
B4000
S 320, C 280, SL 320
Summit, Mirage
Summit, & Summit Wagon,
Mirage, Expo, LRV
Summit Wagon, Expo, LRV
240 SX
G20
Maxima
Maxima
Altima
Sentra/200 SX
200SX SE-R
Maxima
Range Rover New Model
Legacy
T100 2WD
T100 2WD & 4WD
Camry, Camry Wagon,
ES300, Avalon
Previa, Previa All-trac
T100 2WD
Tercel
LS 400
Tacoma 2WD
Tacoma 4WD
Tacoma 2WD/4WD
Tacoma 4WD
Land Cruiser
850 Turbo Sedan/Wagon
850 Sedan/Wagon
No
No
No

No
No


No
No
No
No

No
No
No
No
No
No
No
Yes
No
No

Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
Yes
No
No

No
Yes
Yes
No
No
Yes
Yes
Yes
No
No
Yes (A/T models only)
Yes
Yes
Yes

No
Yes
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
Yes

Here is a chart showing the implementation of OBD-II worldwide:



Source:


This thread is from 2007 and the OP has not been seen in years, and it is highly unlikely that anything new will be learnt from continuing the discussion
 

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1994 s600 coupe
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684 Posts
the language and protocols may be different, the outputs are IDENTICAL. because I have a 1996-up scan tool OBD2 unit as well, and it has the same live data outputs as the ones on my 1994 S600 M120 using the Snap-On MT2500 with the 38 pin connector. it just takes a lot longer to go through all the menus, and the M120 unit updates much slower during datastream info, the OBD2 unit is instantaneous live data. true live data.
it doesn't matter what's inside the ECM's and the scanner box, it can be paper clips, glue, string, and popsicle sticks for all I care, what I'm interested in in the actual sensors used, and the readings of them as such, the outputs to the ECM. they are the same. even the first 1982 OBD1 used an o2 sensors, MAP sensor, and TPS, and they are still being used today, and you need to read those values live to do a proper diagnosis- that's what I meant.
how they get them or process them is not crucial. you're still reading o2 sensor in voltage, MAP sensor in inches/mercury, temperature sensors in fahrenheit, etc.
 

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94 - S500 Cpe
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418 Posts
This thread is from 2007 and the OP has not been seen in years, and it is highly unlikely that anything new will be learnt from continuing the discussion
Silly me . . and I thought we were trying the help SLOTHINKER13 with his problem!!!!

1994v12 said:
I think most times these ASR problems are shorted wiring in the harnesses, or blown fuses in the end module in coffin box.
Actually, it's not blown fuses but actual failures in the ETA like a blown clutch or ohmic contacts on reference potentionmeter pads. Check out my ASR problem here

I suggest that we cut the PONTIFICATION down in this thread . . .
 

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1994 s600 coupe
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684 Posts
ps- you're going by lists of information copy/pasted, not by actually plugging in to see what comes up on the scanner.
 
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