[e-420]

As many may have noticed, I joined the "blinking light, cluster light on" club for my roll bar a few weeks ago when the battery went south. I was very careful to recharge the battery with a trickle charger, but still had errors that needed to be cleared. DAS HHT cleared them, everything worked fine for a few roll bar up and downs, till a plastic piece popped a hydraulic line loose.

Cleaning up 1 liter of hydraulic fluid under the Bose amp and rear carpet is another story.

After this the roll bar controller had code 136 for the controller that couldn't be erased, just like a few other had experienced. and the light issue.

I found another controller to borrow and try but it had Code 134 for the roll bar and same symptoms. then I found another one to try, scanned to make sure there were NO stored codes. There weren't any. Installed it and SUCCESS.

No lights, no roll bar up after top cycling, everything works as it should and after cycling no codes showed up.

So..... it does appear that codes 132-138 mess up the roll bar section of the controller. I guess the next step is to see if BBA can really fix this error.

It would be nice to see what the codes correspond to.

And I suspect (But have no proof) that ebay controllers are going to be a crap shoot. First, many are from cars involved in an accident. Second, not many folks checking them use DAS to check codes, they probably just verify the top cycles, and don't either know to check for roll bar code symptoms or may not even know the flashing light and dash light are an issue. If they even notice it. cycle the top with the ignition on and not running and everything looks ok. everything goes up and down, roll bar comes up, not flashing light, and dash lights are all on anyway.. This ones good put it on ebay.

 

[Poundy]

I think after reading about some of the poor BBA workmanship performed on here, I would be tempted to PM James at MBClusters to see if it is something he can sort out.

 

[LWB250]

I don't think James can fix the later model controllers. I seem to recall him saying he could only repair the older (analog) controllers.

Dan

 

[Rahj2001]

e-420

Is this the kind of setup you mean when you say DAS HHT?

D630 Laptop with MB SD Connect Compact 4 for diagnosis Benz---sales from jiutech.net

I had to look DAS HHT to see what your are talking about. Expensive. Is this something I should consider purchasing? And what is BBA?

 

[e-420]

e-420

Is this the kind of setup you mean when you say DAS HHT?

D630 Laptop with MB SD Connect Compact 4 for diagnosis Benz---sales from jiutech.net

I had to look DAS HHT to see what your are talking about. Expensive. Is this something I should consider purchasing? And what is BBA?

yes, on the DAS HHT. but mine is a C3, supposedly much more robust than C4 version. there is a sticky on the DAS system

Is it worth it? for you to decide. DAS is the ONLY way to read and erase soft top and many other codes or exercise and check some functions, so it's either (a) buy one or (b) take the car to a dealer or Indy if you need it.

For example with das on the 96 and later soft top you an see open/close conition on every switch all through the open/close cycle, even deploy the roll bar. you can check the IR controller for locking, on and on.

BBA is a company that repairs modules for cars

 

[Rahj2001]

yes, on the DAS HHT. but mine is a C3, supposedly much more robust than C4 version. there is a sticky on the DAS system

Is it worth it? for you to decide. DAS is the ONLY way to read and erase soft top and many other codes or exercise and check some functions, so it's either (a) buy one or (b) take the car to a dealer or Indy if you need it.

For example with das on the 96 and later soft top you an see open/close conition on every switch all through the open/close cycle, even deploy the roll bar. you can check the IR controller for locking, on and on.

BBA is a company that repairs modules for cars

roger that. I will look into getting either a DAS or C3 system. I have a 95' SL600. From what I've read, either program should be sufficient. Just will have to learn how to read the damn thing.

 

[LWB250]

And I suspect (But have no proof) that ebay controllers are going to be a crap shoot. First, many are from cars involved in an accident. Second, not many folks checking them use DAS to check codes, they probably just verify the top cycles, and don't either know to check for roll bar code symptoms or may not even know the flashing light and dash light are an issue. If they even notice it. cycle the top with the ignition on and not running and everything looks ok. everything goes up and down, roll bar comes up, not flashing light, and dash lights are all on anyway.. This ones good put it on ebay.

For what it's worth, all of the controllers I have seen on eBay that had any kind of guarantee were far more expensive than a reman from BBA.

I'll check with James to see if he rebuilds the later controllers, but again, in a previous conversation I had with him I think he told me this.

I am just about ready to send mine in the BBA to have it rebuilt. I want to be sure the car is safe when I turn it over to the spouse to drive.

Dan

 

[e-420]

For what it's worth, all of the controllers I have seen on eBay that had any kind of guarantee were far more expensive than a reman from BBA.

I'll check with James to see if he rebuilds the later controllers, but again, in a previous conversation I had with him I think he told me this.

I am just about ready to send mine in the BBA to have it rebuilt. I want to be sure the car is safe when I turn it over to the spouse to drive.

Dan

yes, it is interesting that BBA rebuilds are anywhere from $100 to $700 less than a replacement unit on ebay with any decent warranty and evidence that they really had been checked. And I haven't seen an ebay unit with "lifetime warranty", like BBA as a business offers.

Anxious to here the results from BBA to see if they can fix if needed and erase as necessary any of the control unit errors 132-138.

Hopefully either BBA or James or someone is able to fix these errors and get us back on the road. If so, besides the two of us, I think there are at least 4 others with similar roll bar controller "failure" with the light on and flashing switch.

At least now I know a true "good" controller will fix the problem, I'll probably be sending mine off next time I'm traveling and not be planning on driving the SL for a few weeks.

It would be interesting to know what the error codes actually correspond to, so far after several nights of searching I was unable to find any info on controller errors, let alone what the codes actually corresponded to.

I have a sneaking suspicion that if one could erase the code they are like so many other codes that everything would be fine unless the fault showed up again and it indicated a temporary fault. But MB may not have wanted them to be erased since it is related to the operation of the roll bar in case of an accident and didn't want them messed with.

 

[e-420]

here is another repair service for top controllers found it on ebay, haven't called them or had any experience with them. may call and talk to them about the code 132-138 to see if the can repair it.

Mercedes Soft Top Controller Repair Service | eBay

 

[macysum]

here is another repair service for top controllers found it on ebay, haven't called them or had any experience with them. may call and talk to them about the code 132-138 to see if the can repair it.

Mercedes Soft Top Controller Repair Service | eBay

These guys did a smash up job with my vac pump... see if they might do your top controller. My contact there was Michelle and she's very knowledgeable and any question she can't answer she'll get back to you.

Maybe fill this out and give them a call.

https://www.programainc.com/secure/repair_your_part.aspx?c=629149529

 

[LWB250]

here is another repair service for top controllers found it on ebay, haven't called them or had any experience with them. may call and talk to them about the code 132-138 to see if the can repair it.

Mercedes Soft Top Controller Repair Service | eBay

I just emailed the them asking if they could repair these with the error codes we are getting. I'll report back when I hear from them.

Dan

 

[MAVA]

So what are these codes? DTC? If this is a intermittent DTC, one has to convert it to pure DTC by subtracting 96 from each code.

About the repair of these controllers, One has to get to basics. 70% to 80% failures is caused by Capacitors drying up and straining some other part(AKA..your TV gets wavy lines, shrunken screen, or flashing screen....) Here with these units. Are the few electrolytic's, but the relay contacts get chard. If the contacts get chard, our tops have magnetic sensors, or switches to give the controller feed back to "keep driving the relay more", or "hit the relay some more". Well,,,, it is the hitting the relay some more that strains the controller, and burns out the drive transistor(s) or Driver chip to the relay(s).

What needs to be done is replace the few electrolytic's, and clean the contacts of every relay, and measure the front to back ratio of each diode to each relay as they get leaky and act as resistors(drawing drive current to each relay).

I repair pumps to these cars, and I do a lot of W140 door lock pumps, but I do not see how these repair shops can fix these pumps with-out ever testing the pump in the actual car. Same applies to these controllers . One needs the actual car to make the final test after the repair.

Best of luck,

Martin

 

[LWB250]

Martin,

These are not hardware error codes, that is, codes occurring from a (physical) failure in the controller as far as we know. They pertain to the accelerometer that is used for roll bar deployment from best of what we can tell.

The symptom is flashing LED arrows on the roll bar rocker switch and the yellow roll bar light in the instrument cluster being lit continuously.

Despite the warning light and flashing LEDs, the system still works as far as operating the top and the roll bar - but - we suspect that these errors (DTCs 132-138) indicate that the roll bar will not deploy in an emergency situation.

Note that we are talking about the later SLs, without roll switches on the rear trailing arms. Later cars (1996-1999) did not use these switches for roll bar deployment, they used an accelerometer in the top controller.

The DAS system will recognize these codes but they cannot be cleared.

Dan

 

[MAVA]

Dan,

Still, Like I said... Until you have new capacitors. You are pushing buttons. Software issues are the result of hardware issues?

The car did not come out of the dealer like that in 96 to 99? That would have been a software issue much like our PC's of today?

Martin

 

[LWB250]

I am suggesting there is an issue with the accelerometer that occurs due to a collision. I know my car has been in at least two collisions. The codes that these throw with the symptoms I described cannot be cleared, inferring that there is something that affected the controller that can't be addressed via software.

I believe a previous poster said one of their affected controllers had something rattling around inside (accelerometer?)

I'm going to pull mine this weekend and see if I can open it without breaking seals.

Dan

 

[MAVA]

The Accelerometers of 90's were motor like, and with the vibrations of the car, and accidents do not fair well.

Event today's low cost, and highly reliable accelerometer chips do not last long either. I was replacing breathing Apparatus units for firefighters because the accelerometers would fail at a range of 8% to 5%, and these guys barely use the apparatus. I could just imagine what happens in a car?

I'd have to see a photo of a board of one of these top controllers with it installed. I these 90's with a motor in them are not available today as the ones today are solid-state..

Martin

 

[LWB250]

As I mentioned previously, I'll have a look at mine tomorrow or Sunday and see if I can open it without breaking any seals. If I'm successful I'll post pictures.

Dan

 

[e-420]

the boards we have according to MB diags, triggers the roll bar activation in 3 difference senerios. the sensors are in the roll bar controller on later cars. the situations that trigger it are

1) car tilted more than 22 degrees
2) car tiltled more than 55 degrees
3) accelerometer (piezoelectric, not motor like) detects 3g or greater impulse. Piezo accelerometers have been around for quite a while and darn reliable.

All three sensors are internal to the controller on later cars I suspect conditions (1) and (2) are in different axis (for/aft vs. side to side)

What triggers the error codes for the roll bar I don't know. What I can say is mine was working fine after resetting soft top codes until a piece of plastic came loose and wedged between the DS roll bar teeth and the solenoid block. when I started to drop the roll bar the plastic got wedged in, popped loose one hydraulic line from the solenoid block and triggered the no eraseable codes. Why i don't know. And the plastic piece pn says it goes on the roll bar, but darned if i could see where.

I suspect that the controller may have seen a spike in hydraulic pressure which it thought might be indicating the roll bar was binding and that the spring would not be able to release the roll bar properly.

It would not suprise me that from a safety/reliability standpoint MB did not want dealers erasing these roll bar error codes without some way of positively verifying proper operation and so made it so they couldn't be erased with the HHT. It may be they can be check and erased in another manner. MB does show a new or rebuilt part as available.

Being an EE with lots of design experience I did take mine apart. It does look like there is a module with the tilt and accelerometers on the board. Given the nature of the error and the other functional operation I'd say from a look at the board it's highly unlikely that it is a failed electrolytic cap issue like the Bose amp and some other modules experience.

Interestingly, usually a hard stop that triggers the ABS for a second or more will trigger the roll bar. so either (a) less than 3g's will trigger them or (b) peak g's are 3g or more. I suspect (a)

It makes a hell of a racket since the roll bar extends with the pawl against the teeth as it goes up. normally a solenoid pulls the pawl away from the teeth during roll bar rasing and lowering.

In any case, it would be nice to at least know what codes 132-138 are.

All MB and alldata say for troubleshooting with these codes is "replace module N52" which is the rollbar/soft top module.

As dan says, other than the dash light and roll bar switch light, EVERYTHING functions just as one would expect. roll bar goes up and down with the switch. Top goes up and down as it should but the roll bar ALWAYS comes up at the end of the cycle.

With DAS and the HHTWIN program one can trigger the roll bar to deloy. I haven't tried that
1) don't want to risk triggering any other errors
2) while it will release the solenoid that holds the roll bar down, that is all it appears to do. Still doesn't verify that the tilt or accelerometers will trigger the roll bar, which is what we want it to do.

And I could try a panic stop and see what it does. but again don't want to risk any other codes until I know I have a known good working module.

It could be that the way to erase the codes is to reprogram the module and then have it then go through any internal diagnostic routines. Or it may be that with the proper diagnostic tools one can invoke a diagnostic routine that will clear error codes if it does not find any faults after the diagnostics run.

It may even require that the module be tilted in each axis to verify it detects the angle and trips and then have a 3g or more shock to check for a trigger as well. If it passes this then errors cleared.

In any event, will be interesting to find out which vendor(s) can really diagnose and clear these error codes AND verify the module will work as intended.

 

[e-420]

As I mentioned previously, I'll have a look at mine tomorrow or Sunday and see if I can open it without breaking any seals. If I'm successful I'll post pictures.

Dan

Unless yours was previously repaired, you can open it up without breaking any seals. there are 4 screws holding the back plate on, remove them. There are two ECB's in the module. Seperate the top and bottom board at the plug in connector and you can slide the assembly out. Ours does not have mechanical relays for the solenoids. One board has a rather large electromechanical assembly on it. I suspect that is the tilt/accelerometer sensor assy.

 

[LWB250]

After what you're describing, it doesn't sound like there's a lot to be accomplished by opening it up.

I may try the panic stop thing this weekend just to see if it will deploy. It's never done it in the year and a half I've owned the car.

I'll have my DAS system out as well, so I may see if it will deploy from the DAS. I've never noticed the screen where it allows you to do this - at least if I did I didn't pay attention to it.

Thanks!

Dan