[smart_guy]

Hello all!

How can I know what maximum width the rims can take, without practically trying them? I'm using the factory fit 15" rims with 205/60/R15 and the factory fit originals were 195/65/R15. The replacement fit right in.

There are even bigger 15" tires out there and I personally found 225 wide ones.

Also, does the width of the tire matter at turns and taking pumps for W124's like the height does? If I replace the fenders with the wider E500E ones, does the problem still show for the rear tires?

:|

 

[neanderthal]

Please use the search function. We have enough wheel/ tire threads already.

 

[LeftCoastGeek]

excessively wide tires makes a car feel heavier to steer.

myself, I'm having zero traction problems with the 195/65's, so I'm sticking with them.

 

[ColoradoBenzz]

If you drive like grandma did to church, 195/65's are sufficient. Otherwise they are ridiculous narrow for such a big car if you want proper handling and braking.

205 is the widest I'd go on the stock rims. If you go 16x8 or 17x8, you can safely go up to 225. I have 225/45/17 on 17x8 and they fit perfectly under the stock fender arches.

 

[Rutledri]

Please use the search function. We have enough wheel/ tire threads already.

The W124 cars ( and in particular the 400/420's) are some of the hardest to fit with wheels and tires I have ever seen. 90% of what is out there both on the boards and from the big mail order houses is pure BS so no there are NOT enough ACCURATE wheel / tire threads out there for these cars. The factory wheels that were available are big time dated and heavy as heck not to mention expensive.
About the only way you will know if something aftermarket fits one of these cars without buying it is finding some one on these boards that has tried a particular combo.
Been running in circles trying to find the right combo for my 95 E-420 as these factory pizza cutters ( 195x 65x 15 on 6 inchers ) are BADLY undersized for the weight/ horsepower of these cars. Add the fact that the 15's are now considered an obsolete size so there is very little choice in speed rated tires.
On damp pavement it can get really interesting at times when mine comes up on the cams say coming up an on ramp. Instant sideways without warning can get your attention. These handi **** ( Hankook's) no traction H rate 205x60x15's flat ain't cutting it on my 420 and I also am looking for a modern looking set of 17 x 7.5's to hang a set of 215 45's on.
There flat is not much out here that fits these cars and clears without body mods and that's a fact!!

 

[Rutledri]

If you drive like grandma did to church, 195/65's are sufficient. Otherwise they are ridiculous narrow for such a big car if you want proper handling and braking.

205 is the widest I'd go on the stock rims. If you go 16x8 or 17x8, you can safely go up to 225. I have 225/45/17 on 17x8 and they fit perfectly under the stock fender arches.

Even with the low horse 6's the factory wheel and tire size MB used on the cars are marginal at best by modern standards. Add in a 300+ horse V8 and the growing lack of speed rated tires and it's a serious issue. Running 195x65x15's in non speed rated tires on 6 inch wheels is NUTS on a high 13 second 160 mph heavy car like mine but is what we are forced to do on the stock set up.
17x 8's are a problem under a 400/420 as they won't clear the fender lips. It's 17x7.5 and ET 35 to 42 ONLY on these cars running no more that 225 45's!!
Not much out there to choose from in wheels that fit these cars.

 

[Rutledri]

excessively wide tires makes a car feel heavier to steer.

myself, I'm having zero traction problems with the 195/65's, so I'm sticking with them.

You are not making the power or carrying the weight I am with my 95 E-420.
My car flat won't hook off a redlight in the dry and is really exciting at times in the wet. Had mine more than once get get really tail happy without warning in the damp up at some speed when it came up on the cams because of these factory pizza cutters I'm running.

 

[260e crusier]

On my 1987 260E, I mounted 215/60R15 on the factory rims. That's the biggest tire that will fit on a 6" rims. No clearance problem (my car was lowered also).

On occasions, even my low powered (no power actually ) 260E can break these tires loose. Must be really scary with a V8.

 

[Komrade 124]

You are not making the power or carrying the weight I am with my 95 E-420.
My car flat won't hook off a redlight in the dry and is really exciting at times in the wet. Had mine more than once get get really tail happy without warning in the damp up at some speed when it came up on the cams because of these factory pizza cutters I'm running.

I've had my 400E get tail happy in damp conditions with 17x7.5's..

 

[smart_guy]

Erm, so factory rims on these cars are 6"? All W124's of all years and engines?

What about my question about width vs height problems I might get going more than the factory fitted tires' size? Would width cause problems like height might on turns and bumps; e.g. hitting the shocks and/or fenders, both front and rear?

I drive moderately fast for extended times daily (~130kmph or ~80mph) and want traction, I don't make maneuvers and accelerate with sharp turns. Wouldn't wide tires be helpful for this? Would it help gaining grip if I lose traction?

On my 1987 260E, I mounted 215/60R15 on the factory rims. That's the biggest tire that will fit on a 6" rims. No clearance problem (my car was lowered also).

On occasions, even my low powered (no power actually ) 260E can break these tires loose. Must be really scary with a V8.

Than you for sharing this personal experience that fits the description with mine

What does my "break loose" mean here? Sorry, English is not my mother tongue If you mean it hurts, do you think it hurts because of the width or the height?

 

[Jayare]

Break loose means lose grip/traction.

 

[Verbal]

Goodyear makes a V-rated 195/65-15, which I run on my '93. My '95 has Kookies. which are merely adequate. The Goodyears work really well. Low profile tire/rim packages are great if you plan to do all your driving on glassy smooth race courses. In the real world where you have to drive on some pretty crappy pavement, there is a lot to be said for the compliance afforded by a taller sidewall, both for handling and ride quality.

 

[LeftCoastGeek]

the Michelin Primacy MXV4 H-rated (they also come in V-rated, but as I'm never likely to sustain over 130MPH, H is just fine, and they last longer) that I've been using have been great, excellent wet and dry traction in stock sizes, they last a long time, wear evenly and at 75% worn STILL have great traction and a smooth quiet ride. They've been superceded by the Michelin Premier A/S but all reports are those are even better. I am not a slowpoke, I drive quite a lot on narrow twisty mountain roads at high speeds, and find the car very hard to slide even with the stock sizes unless you intentionally slam it around. we have the 205's on my wife's e320 wagon and they make it feel heavier on turns.

 

[smart_guy]

Does wider always mean better traction/grip?

Roads are mostly screwed up here. I'm looking for wider tires to have a comfortable and safer ride in the highway I take daily and to be better ready for any unexpected loss of control and sudden breaking. I always thought wider tires are good for that.

 

[LeftCoastGeek]

wider tires can have MORE problems hydroplanning on wet roads at higher speeds.

wider tires on bigger wheels are typically low profile, which means shorter sidewalls and harsher/noisier ride.

 

[smart_guy]

Yeah, I plan on keeping the height in around the same as that of 195/65/R15. I stayed away from the 205/65/R15 thinking it would be too high so I took the 205/60/R15 which is not much lower than that of the factory fit 195/65/R15. 215/60/R15 seem to be just a little higher. I think that's gonna be my next change.

 

[neanderthal]

I guess I will have to weigh in.


Nobody here knows more, or better, about the capabilities of the W124 than the engineers who designed and spec'd all the equipment for it. So every single armchair quarterback who is telling that you X is not enough, or Y is inadequate is talking out of their poophole. PERIOD.

i have broken traction in my 130hp 230TE. I have gone 135 in my 300E 2.6. I have autocrossed my E320 (it's not pretty) I have gone far off road in my plain, two wheel drive W124s. But I mostly drive them like a normal human being, going to work, taking the kids to soccer, etc.

There is nothing wrong with the original size of wheel and tire. For normal everyday driving it is adequate. For more spirited driving (like going through the canyons, pushing a little bit, but not too hard,) they will still suffice, however they won't be rewarding. And lower profile tires will be better. The stock type tires are designed for luxury touring, not high performance. That means quiet smooth ride, good wet weather traction, long life, decent fuel economy.

But you know what would work better than low profile tires? High performance driving classes. I've out driven people in fancy high performance cars through the canyons in my 1976 BMW 2002.

And you know what would work better than bigger wheel and tires? Stiffer swaybars and better shocks like Bilsteins. Pick your swaybars wisely and you can neutralise the built in understeer without getting into oversteer. And you still retain that comfy all round ride engineered into the car from the onset.

If you want to go further than that, like spirited driving through the canyons where you ARE pushing hard, or autocrossing, or racing, then please, start with your brakes. 17 or 18 inch wheels with high performance tires will then compliment any suspension mods you have made.

The high performance tires will make the difference more than the size of the contact patch. You can have 235 section tires that are broadline tires (analogous to what is fitted on a minivan) or 195 section tires that are high performance tires. But good luck finding those.

A nice compromise, the retain the very nice ride and improve handling is to upgrade your shocks and use 16 inch wheels. 17s will ride a bit stiffer. You want more grip, get high performance tires. But there's a point where you will run out of stick because your car cant generate the grip, hence my suggestion to upgrade the suspension so you can actually utilise that grip when you generate the G forces. It's no use having high performance tires when your suspension is taking the weight off the tires in turns. That's why swaybars are important. And for this car, the W124, a good suspension upgrade on all season luxury performance tires will generate more grip than a standard one with high performance tires.

High performance tires come with a penalty; generally more noise, shorter life, higher cost. Summer tires will have compromised wet weather and snow traction.

Pick what you want carefully.

 

[LogicalPosition]

I Like Wide Tires, I Cannot Lie

As folks as saying, wide LOOKS great, but can cause problems with rubbing and hydroplaning. Apparently these W124's have some issues with fitting larger wheels(rims) AND larger tires on these wheels. :crybaby2: SmartGuy, as one member said, there is a lot of info and discussion about this, I've spent hours researching this myself. My bottom line was time and expense. I stayed with the stock wheels(for now), and Michelin MXV4 (H rated?) 195/65/15's. I think the stock wheels are 7 in(V-8) or 6.5 in(6 cyl) wide, not 6 in. You can go with 205/60/15's, I think you said that already. There is also some discussion about changing tires/wheel size affecting your speedometer readings. This is true, however I stayed with STOCK tires and rims, and my speedometer is almost 5 mph over at 70 mph(reads 75!).

The real issue seems to be the OFFSET of the rims, and a member said you have to stay within 37mm-42mm offset, or else you start rubbing inside the front wheel wells on the shocks and fenders in turns. On the rear, the issue is more about the fender lips rubbing the tires, and there are some people who "ROLL" that fender lip with a special tool to keep them from rubbing.

I know you are a "SmartGuy" and you will figure this out. I'm like you, and several others, we like those wide tires because they look meaty and aggressive. These skinny tires are scary small for tossing such heavy, powerful vehicles around nasty, slippery streets. I often find myself throttling down to avoid wheel spin from a standing start, and since my E320 is a one wheel drive, it's very challenging to maintain traction, wet or dry. For me, I need a limited slip differential and minimum 225/45/17 wheels/tires to satisfy my driving thrills in vehicles like these W124's.

Good luck, I hope you find exactly what you want in your search. :thumbsup:

Volvo,
My tire people told me the Primacy MXV4 was a better tire IN THEIR OPINION, than the newer replacement Premier A/S tire. This may be a similar discussion to "What is the best oil/gas/ATF fluid/brake pad?". I really like the quiet, smooth ride, decent traction, and balance(under 1/2 oz of weight per tire) of these Primacy's. Not a day goes by that I'm not up between 80 and 100 mph. Seriously, nothing passes me if I don't allow them to pass. The side walls are tall, absorb a lot of PA potholes, and stay cleaner than most tires I've used in the past. Year around I run 35 psi in all 4 tires, BTW.

 

[smart_guy]

You're position in the subject sounds, you know, logical!

Here are my conclusions so far:
1- 205/60R15 works great since I'm practically using them now.
2- 215/60R15 fits the stock rims fine with no clearance problems, as confirmed by another member.

I guess I'll keep collecting information until the current 2-weak old 205/60R15 gives up after 2 years or something with the mixed drive on the screwed up roads we have here.

 

[neanderthal]

I too LOVE the Primacy MXV4. My last set were 205/65R15 (they fill the wheel well a little better than the standard ties) and they had nearly 70k miles on them. Tread was 4/32 -5/32nds. Milage warranty for them is 60k miles.

I only replaced them because one of them had an unrepairable nail and Costco gave me a proration. I didn't want to have a new tire in 15 when I knew I was changing to 16 inch wheels soon, so I bit the bullet. 215/55R16 H rated. ~Same circumference as 205/65R15.

The Premier AS that replace them are supposed to be as good as the Primacy in everything, but substantially better in the wet. Especially with low tread life later in the life of the tire. I only got them instead of Primacys because I can't stand the thought that if I get a puncture again in two years one of them would be different, so future proofing as it were.

I like the Premier so far. Not quite as sold on them, but not disappointed.