[jbodenrader]

2000 e430, am replacing H2O pump for the first time. Got fan and pulley removed without any trouble. The first bolt I attacked was the alternator and it doesn't want to give. I am concerned about it breaking. Anybody had this experience before? Has anybody had to apply heat to these water pump bolts, and is it normal?

All the forums indicate the necessary sockets to use are 10, 12, and 14mm. The nearest store is HD and I had to buy "universal" sockets which are too big for the bolts in the Water Pump. Should I take a trip to a legit hdwre store and buy inverted torx sockets, or try and use undersized "universal" sockets ?

 

[khomer2]

Use a good penetrating oil and let it soak in for a few hours and do it's job.
Or heat if you want. I usually refrain from using heat myself.

Note: when you put it all back together, coat the bolts with a bit of anti-seize.

edit: use the correct size tool. You really dont want to strip or round the heads on these.

 

[jbodenrader]

Thanks

 

[Kajtek1]

When I was replacing head gasket on 27 years old 603 engine with 297k miles on it, all bolts come out with finger turn after breaking them loose.
German do make good steel and did for more than 100 years, so don't hesitate to "step on it". Most of the bolts are very tight from the factory and that what it is, although seeing you in Canada, hard to compare to California car.
Worse coming to worse, if it breaks, then you will worry.
Just make sure you have good quality tools that will not strip the heads.

 

[pt_700]

can you get some sort of impact driver on it? the sharp jolts those deliver can often break things loose without breaking things...

after a good soak of penetrating oil, of course.

 

[2000 E 320 White Wagon]

2x on Penetrating oil & patience.

Harbor Freight has good quality e-Torx sockets - just used mine in fact.

I normally use PB Blaster & let soak.

There is Kroil brand penetrant that is loved by many a pro machinist / mechanic.

Hard to find but said to be GREAT.

For heat, maybe a heat gun on high is safer than torch ?

Best wishes for success !

David in East Texas

 

[wlb50]

I don’t even know the type of fasteners that secure this water pump - I guess Torx bolts?

I second that notion about having an impact wrench if you have an air compressor.

Years ago I changed the motor mounts on my W124 300 E and had enough things went wrong it became an Internet legend for a while. It was so bad it was comical and I can reprint the story if anybody’s interested

But it all started with these Allen head bolts that the factory changed shortly after.

They would not budge and even after getting a 6 foot pipe for leverage all I did was gall the hole.

I ended up having to drill them out.

You want sockets that fit the fastener precisely.

Assuming you don’t have access to an impact wrench maybe a half inch drive ratchet and make darn sure that socket is securely fitted to the bolt

Leverage is your friend.

I do believe with all my trouble with my bolts years ago if I’d had an impact wrench with that sudden snap of torque it wouldn’t of been an issue

 

[Benzyle]

You can get sets of E Torx sockets on Ebay very cheap if you want to.
Well worth spending a few dollars to get the right tools , rather than trying to use hex or 12 point sockets.

 

[Kajtek1]

When I needed set of big E-torx, nobody in Las Vegas would have them.
Had them special-order from Sears.
about $100, but that include E, torx and hex wrenches. Total like 5 lb of wrenches with lifetime warranty.
Water pump uses small size, what should be easy available.

 

[sylwedydd]

If you are replacing the water pump, (I recently replaced mine on a MY2000 SL600,} you are like me and want to service your car yourself. Get tools that fit. Not necessarily the ratchet wrenches and extensions, but the sockets. You definitely need the right size sockets be they allen, torx, inverted torx, etc for the job. I decided on VIM tools and have no regrets . More expensive than the HF, Craftsman etc but far less than the HAZET - Snap On breed for professionals.

Although, I did treat myself to the Hazet 3/8 Torque wrench for the occasion :smile. I needed it for all the 10NM to 60NM bolts. It rocks!~!

 

[yeldogt]

I second Harbor Freight for one/ two time tools. Have a bunch of them -- Have German and Snap-on as well for often used. But you can't beat HF for some stuff

 

[Deplore]

I have a philosophy that I use for tools....

Buy all tools you need cheap, whether or not its HF, or ebay or chinese junk. Whatever breaks, then I buy the next step up brand. Hazel, Snap-on, Matco, whatever.

You'd be surprised at how much you can save in the long run....but some tools you do need to buy name brand, if only because they're a specific size or thinness to clear some cars. I have to get snap on 14mm deep well spark plug socket for BMW N54 and N55 engines, because they're thin enough that they will go alllll the way in. Stripping or breaking a spark plug is not my idea of fun.

 

[SD_GR]

Soak it in Aero Kroil. Give it a brief, very controlled, smart whack tap (iron fist in a velvet glove, only just firm enough to help the oil spread, and no more!) with a mallet once in a while. Then repeat. Go at least overnight. Them get the right socket of the highest quality you can muster and an air gun and give it, quite literally, a whirl.

DISCLAIMER: If you break your car following this advice you get to pay for all of it. If something goes wrong I don’t know you and never posted here. Good luck!

 

[jbodenrader]

Message to all. I want to thank everyone for their advice. I took advantage of all of it and completed the removal of the Water Pump. Soaked the bolts in Kroil and got E Torx sockets from HF, on a breaker bar, and out they came.

Now my issue: I have the old pump removed and am installing the new, but I am having trouble keeping the gasket in the groove. I coated it with Permatex to hold it in place but still am not sure it stayed in position. My question is, can I use the other gasket that arrived with the water pump? It is a flat gasket, larger than the thin, wire type gasket and seems it would be easier to work with.

 

[Witek_M]

Message to all. I want to thank everyone for their advice. I took advantage of all of it and completed the removal of the Water Pump. Soaked the bolts in Kroil and got E Torx sockets from HF, on a breaker bar, and out they came.

Now my issue: I have the old pump removed and am installing the new, but I am having trouble keeping the gasket in the groove. I coated it with Permatex to hold it in place but still am not sure it stayed in position. My question is, can I use the other gasket that arrived with the water pump? It is a flat gasket, larger than the thin, wire type gasket and seems it would be easier to work with.

I hold it in place with silicone grease. Found in plumbing section of any hardware store.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/oatey-sili...YNLc3XrbrdF313a22LsaArSmEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Flat gasket goes on newer M112 engines like W211 that don't have groove in timing cover.

 

[pt_700]

a friend gave me a couple of harbor freight (earthquake brand i believe) 20v cordless impact drivers (3/8" & 1/2") and they're great! the 1/2" one has plenty of power to loosen lug bolts / nuts. highly recommend having at least 1 in the toolkit.

 

[jessejames4]

Use a good penetrating oil and let it soak in for a few hours and do it's job.
Or heat if you want. I usually refrain from using heat myself.

Note: when you put it all back together, coat the bolts with a bit of anti-seize.

edit: use the correct size tool. You really dont want to strip or round the heads on these.

Yeah, you need heat and PB Blaster penetrating oil. Get the right size tools. If you are worried about flame heating, use an empty metal can with a hole in the bottom a little larger than the bolt. Heat it up, use the pent rating oil, let sit for six hours, repeat.
TAKE YOUR TIME. You do not want to break this off. When it loosens, spray with the penetrating oil and work it slowly back and forth.

 

[cliffyk]

If you are replacing the water pump, (I recently replaced mine on a MY2000 SL600,} you are like me and want to service your car yourself. Get tools that fit. Not necessarily the ratchet wrenches and extensions, but the sockets. You definitely need the right size sockets be they allen, torx, inverted torx, etc for the job. I decided on VIM tools and have no regrets . More expensive than the HF, Craftsman etc but far less than the HAZET - Snap On breed for professionals.

Although, I did treat myself to the Hazet 3/8 Torque wrench for the occasion :smile. I needed it for all the 10NM to 60NM bolts. It rocks!~!

^^^ THIS...

Do NOT use any sort of "universal" tool--get the proper one--also, I have found that often seized bolts that do not wish to respond to brute force via a long breaker bar or extension, may come loose with an impact wrench--not a big ass 450lb·ft + monster, but something with more finesse. My favourite to date is this little puppy by Husky:

It is quite compact, and though very optimistically (I.e. ridiculously) rated for 500 lb·ft @ 90 psi, it does actually deliver a very solid 300 or so with a 150 psi air supply.

Though discontinued (don't know why Husky dropped this fine little tool), you can find it for $75 to $100 on eBay or Amazon, Walmart online wants an absurd $172.

Do not buy Harbor Freight's compact 1/2" air wrench--it is poorly made, and does not even come close to it's ridiculous 700 lb·ft rating--had one and returned it...

 

[darrelstickler]

The correct socket of course is needed, but consider a hammer to provide a sharp blow. Several instances of even using a 6 ft bar for leverage (taking a bolt off an engine sitting on the ground and all it did was rock the engine and my two friends. But get a 2-3 lb hammer and smack it very sharply and it should come loose. If this is indeed a socket, then you'd use a breaker bar and not a ratchet wrench on the socket.

 

[jimknock]

I am confused. Heat makes things bigger. So if you heat a bolt in a threaded hole, it will get tighter. If you heat a nut on a bolt however, it will get bigger and easier to remove.

So are we talking about heating nuts or bolts here?

I used to use Kroil 20+ years ago. I had forgotten about it. It is really good stuff. Now I use PB Blaster because it is available. I don't think it is as good.

https://www.amazon.com/Kano-Kroil-Penetrating-liquid-KROIL/dp/B000F09CF4