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1959 411 Hard Cab,1960 411, 1961 404, 1970 404. 1956 401,1954 401
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63 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I want to replace all the steel and rubber brake lines on my 1960 411. I would rather not use the premade lines sold at most auto part stores. Is there a prefered line to use if I make them myself as I have done on other old cars? Are the type of flares used in this vintage single, double, or bubble? I can do single or double but not bubble. Thanks Ed
 

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'76 1300L,HE351CW,H15P Winches,Konis,Hydraulics,All Gears,10mm Plungers,Aftercooler,Lots of Littles
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2015 Rubicon Unlimited (Let the shame be upon me!)
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3,821 Posts
My recommendation exactly. The fedhill flare tool is worth what ever they charge you and they also carry the correct metric line & flares.
 

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'76 1300L,HE351CW,H15P Winches,Konis,Hydraulics,All Gears,10mm Plungers,Aftercooler,Lots of Littles
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2,671 Posts
$25 per week for the rental. $400 to buy it!

C.
 

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2015 Rubicon Unlimited (Let the shame be upon me!)
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Think of it this way, how many brake flares are you going to do with it, and then how many in the next 12 months?

We offer a brake line flaring tool rental program for DIY'ers. With purchase of tubing you can rent a 007 flaring tool with appropriate dies. $25.00 per week plus $375.00 security deposit.

You get the 375 back on return and just pay for the weeks. If you think the project might take more than 16 weeks or if you do a lot of brake work and hate making lines, buying it up front works.
 

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Unimog U1250
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1,674 Posts
I would recommend hiring it - I bought mine and it was well worth it since I did not have an option to hire one here in Australia. Forget about taking the lines to the brake shop unless you know what you are doing - I had to re do quite a few of mine, either too long or too short, or just bent wrong. - I did take a long time to plumb up the whole system, but in reality, I could have done it in about two days now that I know what I'm doing.
 

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1959 411 Hard Cab,1960 411, 1961 404, 1970 404. 1956 401,1954 401
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63 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the advice on the tubing and the flare tool but I would still please ask if anyone knows if the flairs are single, double or bubble type which would I suspect be necessary to know to order the correct dies with the flare tool?
Thanks again Ed
 

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1973 416 Doka, 1978 416 Doka, 1980 416 Doka..... Help me, I can't stop buying them!!!
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2,627 Posts
I use one of these tools. Price was about $250 if I remember right. And it works great. Makes a prefect 45 degree double flare every time. I am pretty sure that is what would be on your truck, like on the others.
Mastercool Inc., Flaring Tools
 

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85' U1300L Holset Turbo VA A/C, 66' Propane 404.1 rock mog, 1975 416 Doka, G500, Volvo C303
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As best as I recall, the 404 has double flare lines. I would assume that your 411 does to. But if your replacing all your lines, why does it matter. Just build everything to suit what you like.
 

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BenzWorld UNIMOG statesman
Unimog 404.1 Diesel (sold :( )1995 LMTV 1078
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Check the Ulitmate Sticky at the top of this forum. There is a tool rental/borrow link to benzworld Mog members. If I recall right there is a Mog double flare brake line tool on the list.
 

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2015 Rubicon Unlimited (Let the shame be upon me!)
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Von, cool tool but different. KC has a good point, as long as you are starting from scratch, as long as it all matches you are good to go with whatever flare type you want. Coach as always is here to tell us that we should no fear the search button as fear is just false evidence appearing real.

You could for kicks, inspect what flares your current truck has. If you need to re-do the lines, it's either leaking or leaking worse so whats some bubbles out on the cylinder end gonna hurt, right?
 

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1973 416 Doka, 1978 416 Doka, 1980 416 Doka..... Help me, I can't stop buying them!!!
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2,627 Posts
as long as you are starting from scratch, as long as it all matches you are good to go with whatever flare type you want.
NOT TRUE!! you have to match what is inside of the wheel cyl. and master cyl. If the inside is a male 45 and it needs a female 45, so a bubble would not work. And all flares for brakes need to be double to prevent leaks from cracks in the flares.
 

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Perhaps I was not as clear as I should be. If you are able to match all your flares it should not be a problem which one you chose. Given that you cannot change the master or the wheel cylinder flares, your choice is pretty much made for you. As for double flare, yes practical wisdom says double flares beat single flares.

But it all comes back to matching your flares, you wouldn't want some sections in metric and some in SAE becasue that's what you could scab together at the parts house, nor would you want to play the same silly game with a whole fist full of screw in adapters to make the mess even more confusing.

FWIW you could invest the time and effort and build the whole truck with AN fittings on everything if you really wanted to.

The core point to all of this I believe is examine what you have in hand on the things you cannot change, draw up a list of fittings you know you will need and some you might want to have "just in case", use a string and perhaps some stiff wire to get an idea for the amount of steel tube you will need then add some "just in case", buy a good tubing cutter and a deburring tool to keep your ends plumb and square. From there the only two variables are the quality of the flaring tool you select and the quality of the tubing bender you select.

Running lines is not "hard" so much as it requires a good amount of pre-planning to get nice clean bends and practice to get the flares just as you want them. Quality tools make it easier to spend more time figuring out you run becasue you don't have to fight with poorly written instructions, questionable example images and tools that are just crap. Cheap 20 dollar flare tools are in my eyes disposable, you buy them to get an emergency situation solved.

And never do anything "just for now" because just for now means just forever!
 

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1957 404 FireMog
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184 Posts
If you are just doing the lines on your mog OTC makes a high quality double flare metric kit you can get delivered for about $50. This is a nice quality tool. Cut and paste the following address and it will bring you right to ebait. I bought one of these not too long ago. It's the best deal I could find.

OTC 6506 Metric Double Flaring Tool Set with Cutter - eBay (item 400081790723 end time Dec-21-10 12:29:03 PST)

If you replace all the hard lines it’s only about 20 flares. It takes more time to get the bends right than it does to double flare the ends.

Regards,

Jeff
 

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Unimog U1250
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383 Posts
If you are just doing the lines on your mog OTC makes a high quality double flare metric kit you can get delivered for about $50. This is a nice quality tool. Cut and paste the following address and it will bring you right to ebait. I bought one of these not too long ago. It's the best deal I could find.

OTC 6506 Metric Double Flaring Tool Set with Cutter - eBay (item 400081790723 end time Dec-21-10 12:29:03 PST)

If you replace all the hard lines it’s only about 20 flares. It takes more time to get the bends right than it does to double flare the ends.

Regards,

Jeff
I just did all my brake lines with a similar tool. The tool is a bit slow to use, but otherwise worked well.
 

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mogless, except for my friends MB4-94. And a bunch of other diesel junk.
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2,512 Posts
If you are just doing the lines on your mog OTC makes a high quality double flare metric kit you can get delivered for about $50. This is a nice quality tool. Cut and paste the following address and it will bring you right to ebait. I bought one of these not too long ago. It's the best deal I could find.

OTC 6506 Metric Double Flaring Tool Set with Cutter - eBay (item 400081790723 end time Dec-21-10 12:29:03 PST)

If you replace all the hard lines it’s only about 20 flares. It takes more time to get the bends right than it does to double flare the ends.

Regards,

Jeff
Great tool for doing one truck, and then you have it if you need to do a repair. Worked well for me.
 

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Unimogs
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We also use the Mastercool hydraulic flaring tool. It's been flaring lines for about 7 years with no problems.

Keep in mind your results will be directly related to the tubing that you use. The difference is night and day between a Napa steel 6mm line, and the Copper Cunifer sold by Fedhill. Spend the extra money on the quality tubing as the flares will come out nicer as well as the bends.

For the 404 owners factory pre-bent lines are available NOS. No matter how good you are with the bending tools, I have never seen a line as nicely bent as the factory lines.....

For reference we do not really like the Fedhill brake line nuts, and prefer the MB ones. MB ones seem a little heavier duty.......opinion only, they will both work fine.

Cheers,

Scott
 

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1970 406 Unimog with 9'2" Boss V-Plow....... 1974 404 Unimog Rock Crawler
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874 Posts
Another thumbs up for the FedHill brake lines. I replaced all my steel lines with the copper nickel alloy ("Cunifer") brake lines supplied by FedHill, and they also carry 6mm lines and fittings which your neighborhood auto parts store wont have. It's also important to note that the Cunifer lines bend so much more easily compared to steel lines. You can form the bends with just your hands in most cases, and the possibility of kinking the line when forming a sharp bend is drastically reduced.

I also rented the flaring tool from FedHill, it's a high quality tool made in the UK, and it clamps in a bench mounted vice which really makes the double flare process easy and quick.
 

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'78 Mog 416.141 DoKa
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Wait - hang on guys...are we using the right terminology here ?
Can't make a BUBBLE flare ???

As far as I know, a bubble (DIN or Girling) flare is what you get after the first stage of doing a double flare. It's very simple and can be accomplished easily with inexpensive tools. I am about to replace several lines on my Rover that use bubble flares and the tool I purchased (similar to many hand drive tools on the market) cost me a total of $30.

I always thought DOUBLE flare were the 'hard' ones. BUBBLE is (looks) simple.
 
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